XC-40 recharge

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EVmatch: the Airbnb of EV charging.

garsh

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lance.bailey

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On the XC60 if i accelerate to the point where the engine kicks in takes quite a while for electric to kick out on the first occurrence. I figure that was for getting the oils flowing and such. After the return to electric the gas and electric interchange seamlessly and quickly.

Based on my breather box clogging from underuse when I was keeping primarily on battery, I think that "maintenance mode" is a smart thing that other companies would do well to copy. Thanks @garsh
 

lance.bailey

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No estimated MSRP?

got a pricing sheet yesterday, 65K for base R-design trim level. not many options, i'll likely add another 5K to that for the treats like better sound and heated steering wheel :) and winter tires/rims. sigh.

mind you, those are canadian prices which are 10K or 15K more than stateside. i'd expect base R-design to be 50K or so.

no mention of momentum or inscription trim levels - perhaps they are just not available on the recharge. regardless I currently have an R-design and it's fine by me.
 

lance.bailey

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i'll buzz into work a couple of time and put the drive into "Sport/Power" to have some fun while burning dinosaurs. minor agro, but agro still and more importantly "fuel agro" on the hybrid.

The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.
The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.
The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.
The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.
The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.
The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.
The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights. The Volvo does not respect signs or stop lights.

had a few fast braking "*h sh!t" moments.

spent the tank yesterday, back to model3 today. good to be back.
 

lance.bailey

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took the XC40 recharge for a test drive today. a few thoughts and observations.

  • The phone charger is big enough to handle my iPhone 11, although charging was slow
  • the frunk is silly. You lift the hood, then you lift the cover for the frunk. It is about 1/3 to 1/2 the capacity of the model 3 frunk
  • the pickup in the car as nice 0 - "oh my" in under 1 second for the passenger (no names)
  • the towing capacity is only 1900lbs - the gas and plug-in hybrid versions have 3500lb capacity. Both the recharge and the gas/hybrid versions weigh the same so I am unclear why the towing capacity is so low unless it is due to a hit on range that Volvo does not want us to realize.
  • the trunk capacity is surprisingly big i can get my cooler and pair of boxes in without issue. Nothing under the floor like @Bigriver showed in pictures, save for a well for the charging cables and a scissor jack (and why a scissor jack? there is no spare on this car - so why a jack with no spare?
  • the google voice control is as good as everyone says it is
  • the Harmon Kardon sound system is not quite as good as the B&W system in my XC60
  • no pneumatic suspension (which I have on my XC60) was missed
  • no heat pump (next year with no ability as a later add-on for this year)
Its a nice car, no doubt about it, but for the desired purpose it is not quite there.

The use of this car would be for work travel and summer vacations on top of regular around town stuff.

Camping means towing a tent trailer or a small hard tops weighing about 2000-2700lbs - the recharge limit of 1900lbs will not do that. A utility trailer on the weekend for gravel or "stuff" would be fine, but not much more.

The work travel will be occasional long trips from the Vancouver area into Kelowna/Kamloops/Prince George to visit universities or network transit exchanges. There are no superchargers in those places, only j1772/ccs/chademo. Charging an empty Y on j1772 half way through the would require more patience than my wife claims I possess. Both the chademo and CCS adapters are a joke at 50KW limits.

Having a heat pump to reclaim and save battery would be good on those 10 hour trips, as would the pneumatic suspension. Lets be honest for a second and admit that I am almost 60 years old and every single morning it is a contest between the crippling lower back pain and getting to the toilet. Haven't had to crawl there yet, but i'll keep you posted.

So at the end of the day, while the xc40 recharge is a nice car, it does not yet check all the boxes. Add a heat pump and fix the towing capacity and it will be a lot closer. I can live without pneumatic suspension (although it is nice for long trips :) )
 

lance.bailey

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one last thing about the XC40 recharge and this is a big one. I've written before about Adaptive Cruise Control on my volvo XC60 and while I was hoping that it was better on the XC40 it seems that ACC has a fatal (no pun intended) flaw.

The XC40 has both adaptive and standard cruise control available. I only use ACC which requires a lead car to work correctly. Without a lead the car happily keeps the speed setting and with a lead the car's pace slows down if the lead is travelling slower than the set point.

The presence of a lead car is indicated by an orange car symbol on the dash (or a white car symbol on the heads up display on my XC60). If there is no current lead car the XC40 instead shows a grey symbol (the XC60 has no symbol if no lead car at the time). The problem is that detection of a lead car can disappear (!) and disappear with no indication of this other than the symbol changing from orange to grey (or just disappearing on the XC60). Remember, with no lead the car will speed up to the set point.

On the xc60 the car will lose the lead for no apparent reason. I'll be driving along and the symbol will just turn off - no ding, no warning, nothing other than you needing to notice that the symbol has disappeared. More than once I have had the collision alert sound off (flashing red impact symbol, bells and alarms) when cruise control was travelling unfettered toward the rear end of the car ahead. Perhaps emergency avoidance would have kicked in next, I never waited to find out.

Riddle me this: if the car can detect an object ahead as a collision, why can not the car detect an object ahead as a lead car?

The XC40 is moderately better in that I never saw it lose a lead car for no reason, but in every case, if I had no lead car (for real), when I approached a red light with a stopped car, the XC40 failed to detect the stopped car as a lead vehicle and cruise control travelled unfettered toward the rear of the car ahead. If I caught up to a car travelling ahead of me but slower, that car became the lead and the car symbol shifted from grey to orange. All is at it should be. However, this car will careen toward a stopped car as a red light as if there was no lead car stopped because the car does not see a lead car.

This is a bad thing. Tesla does a great job of manipulating the lead car - and will tell you if there is a problem with the sensors or weather which affect the detection of a lead car. Volvo could learn from how Tesla does things for ACC.

Certainly the OTA updates which come with the XC40 give Volvo the ability to fix this, but seeing as this has not been fixed between as 2018 and a 2021 version of their ACC algorithms, I am not holding my breath.

Surprisingly, this would not stop me from buying the XC40, mostly because I have about 2 years experience with this "feature", but without that experience it is a recipe for something.
 
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Bigriver

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Wow, @lance.bailey, so surprised to hear this. I have not encountered this problem at all on my XC40. I’ve only driven it about 7k miles, so not tons of experience, but I would have actually said I thought its adaptive cruise control was a bit better than Tesla’s. I’m someone that uses ACC every chance I get, and the Volvo slows down for stopped cars ahead in a much smoother fashion than the Tesla’s, which my State Farm data constantly shows having hard braking (when I’m on autopilot.)
 

JWardell

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Riddle me this: if the car can detect an object ahead as a collision, why can not the car detect an object ahead as a lead car?

Because they're separate systems. Probably developed by separate teams. And very likely by separate companies. It's all to common in the typical automotive world. It's why so many adaptive cruise control systems are terrible, can only slow to a stop once, only work in a particular speed range, etc. It's why Tesla is so much better, because all their software is done in house, and most of their hardware too. The engineers can all work together. Same argument can be said for Apple for decades.
 
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lance.bailey

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Wow, @lance.bailey, so surprised to hear this. I have not encountered this problem at all on my XC40. I’ve only driven it about 7k miles, so not tons of experience, but I would have actually said I thought its adaptive cruise control was a bit better than Tesla’s. I’m someone that uses ACC every chance I get, and the Volvo slows down for stopped cars ahead in a much smoother fashion than the Tesla’s, which my State Farm data constantly shows having hard braking (when I’m on autopilot.)

yes, the slowdown is often smoother, but when you get the opportunity - set ACC on a road with no one "way" ahead of you and see what happens when you come up to a light with a car already stopped. I have pretty consistent experience with the stopped car being detected far too late or not at all. My wife was visibly shaken as she screamed "why is the car speeding up" as it tried to regain the set speed as we barreled toward a line of cars all stopped at a light.

in retrospect, it was a fair question for her to ask, although I was purposely trying to see if the XC60 would detect a stopped lead car or not. For a second it did (car symbol flashed on) but when it flashed off a second later I hit the brakes hard. Yes, more screaming ... and deservedly so.
 

garsh

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The XC40 is moderately better in that I never saw it lose a lead car for no reason, but in every case, if I had no lead car (for real), when I approached a red light with a stopped car, the XC40 failed to detect the stopped car as a lead vehicle and cruise control travelled unfettered toward the rear of the car ahead. If I caught up to a car travelling ahead of me but slower, that car became the lead and the car symbol shifted from grey to orange. All is at it should be. However, this car will careen toward a stopped car as a red light as if there was no lead car stopped because the car does not see a lead car.
This is a common problem for all vehicles that rely on radar to detect cars and obstacles (yes, it's also a problem for Teslas, although less so now that they're increasingly relying on camera input as they continue developing autopilot). Radar can't reliably tell you the size or shape of an object - just the general direction.
It's not the speed. AEB for most vehicles can't detect stationary objects. Or more precisely, the radar can't distinguish between a curved coke can and a fire truck, so it relies on detecting motion to distinguish vehicles from debris.
 

Needsdecaf

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took the XC40 recharge for a test drive today. a few thoughts and observations.

  • The phone charger is big enough to handle my iPhone 11, although charging was slow
  • the frunk is silly. You lift the hood, then you lift the cover for the frunk. It is about 1/3 to 1/2 the capacity of the model 3 frunk
  • the pickup in the car as nice 0 - "oh my" in under 1 second for the passenger (no names)
  • the towing capacity is only 1900lbs - the gas and plug-in hybrid versions have 3500lb capacity. Both the recharge and the gas/hybrid versions weigh the same so I am unclear why the towing capacity is so low unless it is due to a hit on range that Volvo does not want us to realize.
  • the trunk capacity is surprisingly big i can get my cooler and pair of boxes in without issue. Nothing under the floor like @Bigriver showed in pictures, save for a well for the charging cables and a scissor jack (and why a scissor jack? there is no spare on this car - so why a jack with no spare?
  • the google voice control is as good as everyone says it is
  • the Harmon Kardon sound system is not quite as good as the B&W system in my XC60
  • no pneumatic suspension (which I have on my XC60) was missed
  • no heat pump (next year with no ability as a later add-on for this year)
Its a nice car, no doubt about it, but for the desired purpose it is not quite there.

The use of this car would be for work travel and summer vacations on top of regular around town stuff.

Camping means towing a tent trailer or a small hard tops weighing about 2000-2700lbs - the recharge limit of 1900lbs will not do that. A utility trailer on the weekend for gravel or "stuff" would be fine, but not much more.

The work travel will be occasional long trips from the Vancouver area into Kelowna/Kamloops/Prince George to visit universities or network transit exchanges. There are no superchargers in those places, only j1772/ccs/chademo. Charging an empty Y on j1772 half way through the would require more patience than my wife claims I possess. Both the chademo and CCS adapters are a joke at 50KW limits.

Having a heat pump to reclaim and save battery would be good on those 10 hour trips, as would the pneumatic suspension. Lets be honest for a second and admit that I am almost 60 years old and every single morning it is a contest between the crippling lower back pain and getting to the toilet. Haven't had to crawl there yet, but i'll keep you posted.

So at the end of the day, while the xc40 recharge is a nice car, it does not yet check all the boxes. Add a heat pump and fix the towing capacity and it will be a lot closer. I can live without pneumatic suspension (although it is nice for long trips :) )


I think that the XC40 is not there yet for you, as a Tesla owner with high expectations of a BEV.

For your average suburban runabout, which face it is the natural domain of this car, I think it's very well suited to someone who doesn't want a Tesla, but wants a nice, semi-premium, compact SUV in a "normal" package.
 

lance.bailey

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Because they're separate systems. Probably developed by separate teams. And very likely by separate companies. It's all to common in the typical automotive world. It's why so many adaptive cruise control systems are terrible, can only slow to a stop once, only work in a particular speed range, etc. It's why Tesla is so much better, because all their software is done in house, and most of their hardware too. The engineers can all work together. Same argument can be said for Apple for decades.

yeah, i get that. but as a software developer of over 30 years, people should code boxes/functions/objects that perform a well defined purpose and have a well defined interface/api/parameter-set/input-output so that other well defined boxes/functions/objects can use that well defined purpose instead of re-inventing the wheel.

sigh.
 
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lance.bailey

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This is a common problem for all vehicles that rely on radar to detect cars and obstacles (yes, it's also a problem for Teslas, although less so now that they're increasingly relying on camera input as they continue developing autopilot). Radar can't reliably tell you the size or shape of an object - just the general direction.

Doing a bit of research on this came up with this nugget from the xc40 manual (section "Camera/radar sensor limitations"):

Vehicle speed​

The radar sensor's ability to detect a vehicle ahead is significantly reduced if the speed of the vehicle ahead differs greatly from your vehicle's speed.

so if the car ahead of you that you are approaching is stopped - the XC40 may not detect it.

pesky. and even if the up front top of windshield camera were to be used, with only one camera, the field of vision is severely impacted (no pun intended).

camera1-crop.png



And, even though there is a camera in the front non-grill it is for parking assist and is not used for object detection meaning that you might hit something lower than the windscreen camera can see.

camera2-crop.png


The disappointment is that 3 years after the same technology in my 2018 Volvo, 3 years after better algorithms exist on the Tesla, the XC40 is still in my opinion well behind state of art collision avoidance.
 

lance.bailey

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I think that the XC40 is not there yet for you, as a Tesla owner with high expectations of a BEV.

and unfortunately, without a non-supercharger fast DC charging alternative - either is the model-Y. At the end of the day I'd rather have a fast charging mediocre vehicle able to get me point A to B than a slow charging superior vehicle tethered at the side of the road.
 

Bigriver

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yes, the slowdown is often smoother, but when you get the opportunity - set ACC on a road with no one "way" ahead of you and see what happens when you come up to a light with a car already stopped. I have pretty consistent experience with the stopped car being detected far too late or not at all. My wife was visibly shaken as she screamed "why is the car speeding up" as it tried to regain the set speed as we barreled toward a line of cars all stopped at a light.

in retrospect, it was a fair question for her to ask, although I was purposely trying to see if the XC60 would detect a stopped lead car or not. For a second it did (car symbol flashed on) but when it flashed off a second later I hit the brakes hard. Yes, more screaming ... and deservedly so.
It was a lovely, sunny day here and I took the opportunity to try to fulfill the homework assignment you gave to me. Executive summary: I failed to come up with a situation to make my Volvo have the problems you’ve described. Details described below.

I drove for about an hour on 2 and 4 lane highways with stop lights; speed limit usually 45 mph, actual speed mostly close to that speed on 2 lane portion and closer to 55 mph on 4 lane sections. I kept both ACC and pilot assist (auto steer) on all the time. While I usually maintain a general awareness of whether I’m going my set speed or limited by the car in front of me, I’ve never paid any attention to whether a lead car was displayed. Today I totally paid attention to that. On my 2019 non-electric XC40, the lead shows as a white/grayish car, and when there is no lead, there is no car. It comes and goes without any notification to me (that frankly would drive me nuts if it gave me audible notifications) but it is not the least bit unstable about detecting the lead car. It was actually quite shocking to me how consistent and how far ahead of me the lead car could be. Here is one quick picture I got of an example.

CA183A2E-D54F-4919-8A02-9334ADE6725D.jpeg

While I was looking to generally pay more attention to how the ACC behaves, I was also seeking the specific situation of stopped cars at a stop light, with no lead car as I approached. There is enough traffic around here that that just isn’t a very common situation, but I did manage to make it happen once. I was cruising at 42 mph set speed and no lead car. As soon as I started approaching the stopped cars, one of the stopped cars appeared in my display as a lead car, and my car slowed down and came to a stop behind it in a very smooth fashion, as if I had been following it all along. The stopped car appeared as lead car with about the same distance as in my sample picture.

To calibrate myself and because I really would have rather driven the model 3 😊, I decided to take it out for an hour on the same roads. With FSD and the settings I have, it is to continue through a green light if there is a lead car, but require my input if there is no lead car. It requires my input when there is a car half the distance in front of me as what the XC40 recognizes as a lead car. Also, a car is outside my Tesla display before it would have disappeared as a lead car on my XC40.

I much prefer my model 3 overall, but am renewed in being impressed with how smooth the XC40 ACC is. I know well what you describe of barreling towards stopped cars and wondering if the car is going to slow down, but I’ve only experienced that in my Tesla’s as there is just NO slowing down until much later than I do when driving.

I in no way am denying what you have reported and have wondered what the reason is for the differences in our experiences. For one, I might guess the speed. My one encounter was only at 42 mph, as I had had to slow down a bit to stay far enough behind the traffic.

I also don’t know how consistent the technology is that Volvo is employing across their cars. I had previously assumed very consistent, but I don’t know. I briefly looked at my user’s manual and the ridiculous glossy book I got from the dealership when I was car shopping. The only reference to the hardware I found was that it is a radar/camera unit at the rear view mirror.
 

lance.bailey

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very interesting.

your display is pretty much identical to mine - so I think the same or close interface between my 2018 XC60 and your XC40. I'm going to see if I can replicate the situation with my phone recording it.

Does your online manual contain the same references to "Camera/radar sensor limitations" - my XC60 does not, but i have certainly experienced the same thing on my XC40.

time for my own homework :)
 

Bigriver

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Does your online manual contain the same references to "Camera/radar sensor limitations"
No, it doesn’t have the specific pictures and text you showed. It does have high level warnings that are essentially the same as Tesla’s as shown below.

I am aware that the situations we are discussing are within the realm of what they are warning us against using the ACC. However I have found the Volvo really good at these situations and Tesla becoming better at them, and I do use ACC on all my cars in stop and go situations, taking full responsibility as the driver of the vehicle. Actually, the very last thing I did before ordering the XC40 was to take one more test drive to check how ACC behaved in traffic, to be sure it was functioned all the way through low speeds and stopping.


F50A4C1C-A60D-43EA-84C4-B9DA040DFC67.png
 

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