Will AWD version have more aggressive regenerative breaking?

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#1
Greetings, fellow Model 3 fans!

As a former MINI E driver who has been surviving without a car for several years, I am really looking forward to a Model 3. For myriad reasons, the decision between taking the first-available RWD option versus the later-available AWD option gives me a lot to ponder.

A new variable came to light as I read a Motor Trend article titled "Automobile 2.0," wherein they compared the regenerative braking of the Model 3 versus that of the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf. Having been absolutely infatuated with the intuitive driving sensation created by aggressive regenerative braking in the MINI E, I am especially interested in recreating that experience in the Model 3.

The data shows that the Model 3's regenerative breaking is less aggressive than the Bolt and Leaf. I suspect this means it is less aggressive than the old MINI E as well. From the article:



I had not previously considered the physics at play, but one of the Motor Trend commentators had this to say about regenerative breaking in RWD vehicles:

It’s not strong enough to slow the car for normal corners—you have to constantly move your foot to the brake pedal. From my experience, I know firsthand that strong regen and rear-wheel drive don’t always play well together.​

So that leads to my question: Do AWD Teslas provide more aggressive regenerative breaking than their RWD counterparts? Is there any reason to believe the Model 3 AWD version will be able to fully stop the vehicle without the brake pedal?
 
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SoFlaModel3

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#2
Greetings, fellow Model 3 fans!

As a former MINI E driver who has been surviving without a car for several years, I am really looking forward to a Model 3. For myriad reasons, the decision between taking the first-available RWD option versus the later-available AWD option gives me a lot to ponder.

A new variable came to light as I read a Motor Trend article titled "Automobile 2.0," wherein they compared the regenerative breaking of the Model 3 versus that of the Chevrolet Bold and Nissan Leaf. Having been absolutely infatuated with the intuitive driving sensation created by aggressive regenerative breaking in the MINI E, I am especially interested in recreating that experience in the Model 3.

The data shows that the Model 3's regenerative breaking is less aggressive than the Bolt and Leaf. I suspect this means it is less aggressive than the old MINI E as well. From the article:



I had not previously considered the physics at play, but one of the Motor Trend commentators had this to say about regenerative breaking in RWD vehicles:

It’s not strong enough to slow the car for normal corners—you have to constantly move your foot to the brake pedal. From my experience, I know firsthand that strong regen and rear-wheel drive don’t always play well together.​

So that leads to my question: Do AWD Teslas provide more aggressive regenerative breaking than their RWD counterparts? Is there any reason to believe the Model 3 AWD version will be able to fully stop the vehicle without the brake pedal?
I can't speak to the Bolt and Leaf as I have not driven either car, but I can tell you after getting some good seat time in Model 3 it was very easy to drive with 1 pedal and brought me back to my manual transmission days of rowing through the gears in lieu of braking. I'm very excited about it!!
 
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#3
I can't speak to the Bolt and Leaf as I have not driven either car, but I can tell you after getting some good seat time in Model 3 it was very easy to drive with 1 pedal and brought me back to my manual transmission days of rowing through the gears in lieu of braking. I'm very excited about it!!
That's great to hear! I really hope the Model 3 recreates the amazing human-machine dynamic I remember from driving electric several years ago.

(Unrelated, I can't seem to make edits to my post to correct some of the typos and spelling errors. So please excuse them! ;))
 

3V Pilot

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#5
I've driven a Model 3 and agree that 1 pedal driving can be done. The regen is not as strong as the Model S or X and I wish it could be adjusted to be a bit more aggressive, one more setting in the UI would be nice. Something like "Low/Standard/Aggressive". That being said all you have to do in a Model 3 is just lift a bit sooner and it slows nicely. On my drive I came up on a right hand turn and lifted a bit later than I should of, the car slowed and I took the turn with a little more speed than normal but still did not use any brake application. I would disagree with the Motor Trend writer because you don't need to cover the brake IF you plan ahead. I think it will take most people a day or two of driving to calibrate their foot but after that it will be second nature. The MT writer just didn't spend enough time in the car or kept his expectations/foot calibration to what he assumed it should be. I think Tesla has purposely toned down the regen because of mass market appeal and the fact most people have not experienced an EV slowing under regen braking.
 
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#6
I am a retired teacher, who loves to read forum entries that are succinctly written. Liberty 3, yours is one of the best entries I have seen! Now, all we need is good enginer to educate us, not a goofball to entertain us!
That's very kind of you, Digital Man!

The MT writer just didn't spend enough time in the car or kept his expectations/foot calibration to what he assumed it should be. I think Tesla has purposely toned down the regen because of mass market appeal and the fact most people have not experienced an EV slowing under regen braking.
I have no doubt that the Model 3 regenerative braking is something that will make driving fun in its own right and perhaps even preferable to the alternatives (one has to keep an open mind, after all).

But I will say again that the highly-aggressive regenerative braking in my old MINI E was an absolute delight that I would love to enjoy again. It was almost the perfect sensation of deceleration, as if you were a master of gracefully stopping an ICE car with a manual transmission. The cherry on top was reaching a perfect-zero speed with none of the stuttering or lurching one feels in an automatic as brake pads finally seize the wheels and nullify that final moment of inertia. Luxury is something measured in small increments and there is real luxury in an effortless and yet perfect sensation of stopping.

If the AWD version has a little more aggression in its regenerative braking, that could be an interesting variable for my decision process.

(Though, to be clear, I know I will be happy as can be in any event.)
 

EVfusion

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#7
... The regen is not as strong as the Model S or X and I wish it could be adjusted to be a bit more aggressive, one more setting in the UI would be nice. Something like "Low/Standard/Aggressive". ...
Agree. Not sure if "Chill" mode has made it to the Model 3 yet. But it would make sense to have adjustable aggression for both breaking and accelerating. That way all tastes are catered for.
 
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I'd be willing to bet money that the AWD Model 3 has more aggressive regenerative braking. It will also help even the wear between the front and rear tires since the RWD's rear tires must both accelerate and brake.
That's another factor I had not considered. Thanks for the input. Does anyone know if the Model S or X dual-motor versions have different regenerative braking behavior versus their RWD counterparts?

I'm still very much on the fence between AWD and RWD. I'm in Los Angeles, so I don't need AWD for weather. For me, the chief factors are not weather or even timing but rather:
  • Dual-motor will presumably be slightly higher performance. For me, that translates to fun.
  • By being delayed, dual-motor may not qualify for the full federal tax credit. For me, that translates to feelings of guilt or foolishness.
  • Dual-motor may have more aggressive regenerative braking (the conjecture raised in this thread). For me, that too translates to fun/luxury.
I've been waiting for so long, additional waiting for AWD/dual-motor doesn't really bother me. Financially speaking, losing the full tax credit isn't a bank-breaker but it does give me a bit of guilt or feeling of being foolish for not taking advantage of the full credit.
 

Matthias Fritz

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#10
could this have to do with aerodynamics too? the Model 3 is more slippery than the Mini E. so drag helps the Mini E slowing down whilst the Model 3 is coasting much longer. is this just software adjustment in general?
 

3V Pilot

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That's another factor I had not considered. Thanks for the input. Does anyone know if the Model S or X dual-motor versions have different regenerative braking behavior versus their RWD counterparts?

I'm still very much on the fence between AWD and RWD. I'm in Los Angeles, so I don't need AWD for weather. For me, the chief factors are not weather or even timing but rather:
  • Dual-motor will presumably be slightly higher performance. For me, that translates to fun.
  • By being delayed, dual-motor may not qualify for the full federal tax credit. For me, that translates to feelings of guilt or foolishness.
  • Dual-motor may have more aggressive regenerative braking (the conjecture raised in this thread). For me, that too translates to fun/luxury.
I've been waiting for so long, additional waiting for AWD/dual-motor doesn't really bother me. Financially speaking, losing the full tax credit isn't a bank-breaker but it does give me a bit of guilt or feeling of being foolish for not taking advantage of the full credit.
That would be a difficult choice. I also wanted dual motor but I'm already at my breaking point on budget. I've driven both the single and dual motor S and I don't think there is much difference in the amount of regen braking. However it is initially setup to be about as aggressive as you would want so it would not make sense to increase it on the dual motor. With the 3 the "could" make it stronger but IMHO/best guess, well, I'd say it will probably be the same.

could this have to do with aerodynamics too? the Model 3 is more slippery than the Mini E. so drag helps the Mini E slowing down whilst the Model 3 is coasting much longer. is this just software adjustment in general?
It's just a software adjustment. If anything the better aerodynamics of the 3 would allow MORE energy to be applied in regen from high speed because the airflow is not acting as brake.
 

EV-lution

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#12
That's another factor I had not considered. Thanks for the input. Does anyone know if the Model S or X dual-motor versions have different regenerative braking behavior versus their RWD counterparts?

I'm still very much on the fence between AWD and RWD. I'm in Los Angeles, so I don't need AWD for weather. For me, the chief factors are not weather or even timing but rather:
  • Dual-motor will presumably be slightly higher performance. For me, that translates to fun.
  • By being delayed, dual-motor may not qualify for the full federal tax credit. For me, that translates to feelings of guilt or foolishness.
  • Dual-motor may have more aggressive regenerative braking (the conjecture raised in this thread). For me, that too translates to fun/luxury.
I've been waiting for so long, additional waiting for AWD/dual-motor doesn't really bother me. Financially speaking, losing the full tax credit isn't a bank-breaker but it does give me a bit of guilt or feeling of being foolish for not taking advantage of the full credit.
I've driven both RWD and AWD Model S's and could detect no difference in regenerative braking between the two.
 
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#13
Greetings, fellow Model 3 fans!

As a former MINI E driver who has been surviving without a car for several years, I am really looking forward to a Model 3. For myriad reasons, the decision between taking the first-available RWD option versus the later-available AWD option gives me a lot to ponder.

A new variable came to light as I read a Motor Trend article titled "Automobile 2.0," wherein they compared the regenerative braking of the Model 3 versus that of the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf. Having been absolutely infatuated with the intuitive driving sensation created by aggressive regenerative braking in the MINI E, I am especially interested in recreating that experience in the Model 3.

The data shows that the Model 3's regenerative breaking is less aggressive than the Bolt and Leaf. I suspect this means it is less aggressive than the old MINI E as well. From the article:



I had not previously considered the physics at play, but one of the Motor Trend commentators had this to say about regenerative breaking in RWD vehicles:

It’s not strong enough to slow the car for normal corners—you have to constantly move your foot to the brake pedal. From my experience, I know firsthand that strong regen and rear-wheel drive don’t always play well together.​

So that leads to my question: Do AWD Teslas provide more aggressive regenerative breaking than their RWD counterparts? Is there any reason to believe the Model 3 AWD version will be able to fully stop the vehicle without the brake pedal?
I feel that having to use the break pedal for the final stop is a good feature for 2 reasons.
First in excerises the breaking mechanism therefore keeping it from freezing up.
Second it gives the organic part of the breaking system continues practice in using the breaking system.
 
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Take a brake!:p

There should be no difference. Maybe there is more regen in terms of kW but that could be done just to compensate addition weight front drive unit adds. Regen is software limited function. Motor can regenerate as much as it can accelerate. But there is a reasonable limit for that function. And battery charge acceptance is one of them. So 100kW should be more than enough.
 
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#16
I test drove a 100D a week ago and the regen was real! I also drove a model 3, 2 days after I drove the 100D and the regent was slightly less noticeable but definitely feel it. I honestly don’t see a huge difference but then again I drove each car for only 20-30min.
 

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#17
Now that the Performance and AWD models are being manufactured, I'm wondering the region difference b/t RWD, non-performance AWD, and performance AWD. The Dallas area galleries only have RWD for test drives, so I couldn't test.