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Who has lost regen with winter tires?

56K views 462 replies 69 participants last post by  SuperDaveMaine 
#1 ·
Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in “Technical Bulletin” form of why I had practically zero Regen.
Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims ‘n tires from “All Season” to “Winters”. Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.
Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.

So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we’ll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.
 
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#2 ·
Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in "Technical Bulletin" form of why I had practically zero Regen.
Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims 'n tires from "All Season" to "Winters". Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.
Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.

So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we'll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.
Was this at the Mississauga SC by chance? My friend had his winters installed Friday and has had almost zero regen since regardless of state of charge and battery temp. He only has it at low speeds. Has yours improved? I'm getting mine installed Saturday and really don't want to have next to no regen all winter. Is this 'sticky tire' thing unique to the 3?
 
#190 ·
Sorry for delay in answering...been very very busy.
Yes it was the Mississauga SC....and yes it is the tire composition (amount of silicon) that messes with regen. To confirm this, I had the SC change my tires back to ALL Season and wham, good regen came back.
 
#3 ·
So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we'll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.
I don't buy that for a minute (that cheaper winter tires with poorer road holding will give you more regen). The Pirelli Winter tires that have been tested by Tesla are not cheap nor do they give you poor road holding. I think you are drawing awfully big conclusions from very little data.

I'm not a fan of jumping to conclusions.
 
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#5 ·
This is not a battery temperature or state of charge issue. Those possible affects have been eliminated in discovering this.

A number of model 3 owners have found that once they’ve installed winter tires, the regenerative braking has disappeared at higher speeds. It only kicks in at about 30km/h. Prior to that, manually braking is required.

IF this problem has affected you, and you have ruled out a cold battery or too high of a charge, would you post the winter tires you went with and rims. Also, if anyone with a model S or X has this issue, please post too. I’ve only read it affecting the model 3 and have seen it first hand with replika rims and continental SIs. I have read others have it with OEM rims, Xice and the Nokians.
Here is a post form someone that went to Tesla about it:

Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in “Technical Bulletin” form of why I had practically zero Regen.
Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims ‘n tires from “All Season” to “Winters”. Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.
Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.

So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we’ll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.

Let’s see how widespread this is and whether Tesla can do something about it.
 
#6 ·
Ok, this is pretty strange. I can't imagine that this would be the case, but it sounds like you and the Tesla tech did a fair amount of testing. You definitely have a good idea about collecting more information from other people to see if we can figure out the commonality.

would you post the winter tires you went with and rims.
Can you do that too please? :)
  • Do you have separate wheels for your winter tires?
  • Do you have TPMS sensors on the wheels for your winter tires?
  • What size/offset/brand/model of wheels?
  • What size/brand/model of tires?
  • What kind of Model 3 did you observe the issue on?
 
#8 ·
First hand on a friend's 3. RWD. He had the replika rims and continentals SIs installed with sensors. I am due for the same install on Saturday. Others have reported the issue with Xice and the R3s. The issue exists with OEM rims also.
What sizes were installed?
 
#25 ·
Yes.

The benefit of cloning is that you don't have to reprogram the car to recognize the new sensors when you swap your summer & winter wheels.

I didn't think that there were any downsides. But if "uncloning" these sensors fixes this "lack of regen" issue, then I guess we've discovered a downside to cloning TPMS on a Tesla.
 
#37 ·
I'm going to Tesla to purchase sensors from them today for my install tomorrow. Just to rule out the sensors themselves.
That's a good idea.

Ideally, we'd also try putting the new tires on the OEM wheels, as well as putting the OEM tires on the new wheels. But that's a lot of hassle if all you really want is a working set of winter wheels. :)
 
#39 · (Edited)
I am a Model 3 RWD 18" Aero owner and just had this happen to me as well.

I have the 18" Aero wheels and just did a tire swap yesterday from the Michelin's MXM4 (235/45R18) to Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 (Also 235/45R18) using the existing rims and TPMS sensors. I immediately experienced almost zero regen at speeds higher than around 20 - 25 MPH. I noticed that once my speed lowered to around 15 - 20 MPH the regen came back in full force. On my way to the tire shop, before switching to winter tires (highways and city streets; so low and high speeds) I had normal full regen available.
  • The temps were in the 60s/70s (Fahrenheit) yesterday as well as today. Sunny blue skies. So no cold weather.
  • Roads were clear (no dirt/water/ice/snow)
  • No warnings or ... (dots) to indicate that regen has been reduced.
  • Battery around 78% charge.
  • The amount of regen experienced now at higher speeds is around what you would get with "low" regen.
  • Tire pressure is around 43 - 44 PSI and all 4 sensors are working/reporting without any errors.
  • I tried a computer reset and nothing improved.
This morning I drove in to work at highway speeds and noticed that when I was cruising (60MPH; accelerator down; no regen) and then come to a stop (let off the accelerator completely; no brake), the regen was there for a split second and then immediately jumped to almost zero regen. Once I slowed down enough (again around 20MPH) the regen kicked in full force.

UPDATE: Adjusted the speeds to be more accurate
 
#41 ·
#43 ·
I was able to grab a measuring tape and take a rough radius measurement of 13 7/8" (352.4mm). This is for a mounted Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 at approx 43 PSI. Measured from the top of the tire to the middle of the Tesla cap.

Attached a photo for your pleasure.
 

Attachments

#44 ·
A little more info...

I was driving again today and noticed that the almost zero regen occurs around 20+ MPH (i've edited my previous post to show this). Below 20 MPH, the regen kicks in like it always did.

Another thing I noticed... Under the speedometer where the black/green bar lives, as I'm traveling fast (say 40 MPH), then completely lift off the accelerator, I see the bar extend quite a ways into the green at first, but the green quickly shrinks to almost nothing until around 20 MPH when the bar becomes more green again. This lines up with the initial regen being there, then quickly going away, then coming back when I hit around 20 MPH.
 
#47 ·
I'm not sure if the tire shop did anything like a reset before handing the car back, but there was nothing about new tires or resetting TPMS when I got the car back.
 
#49 ·
I had a slightly different problem after installing Michelin Alpins on 20 in stock rims with the stock TPMS. The traction control and region control turned off completely, with error messages about needing service. I called Tesla. Procedure - get out of car let self lock. Walk away and wait 5 min. Car has to go to sleep. Come back - errors cleared. Then -- press foot on brake and hold both buttons on wheel for >30s. This is a hard reset. Then drive. The traction control will learn the new stiction.
 
#50 ·
@superspectral,

Great info. Appreciate the heads up. Getting ready to install the same and I'll watch out for this issue. Did the hard reset solve the traction control and regen issues as well as get rid of the error messages?

Ski
 
#54 ·
I’ve not had any more issues with errors or low Regen after reset with my Alpins. Regen is limited by state of charge and temp as usual. 30-50F in Ann Arbor. Alpins are “performance winters” with low rolling resistance. Better than all seasons but not intended to be best snow tire-compromise for high performance on cold dry pavement. They are OEM winter tires for Porsches.
 
#57 · (Edited)
I've not had any more issues with errors or low Regen after reset with my Alpins. Regen is limited by state of charge and temp as usual. 30-50F in Ann Arbor. Alpins are "performance winters" with low rolling resistance. Better than all seasons but not intended to be best snow tire-compromise for high performance on cold dry pavement. They are OEM winter tires for Porsches.
I looked at my tires (Nokian hakkapeliitta R3) again today and noticed that they are "Ultra Low Rolling Resistance" tires.
 
#59 ·
Has anyone installed Xi3 or Nokian winter tires on their RWD M3 and NOT had an issue with regen?

I have Xi3s mounted on OEM aero 18s I bought with OEM TPMS sensors. Haven’t tried installing them on the car yet, but I hope I didn’t blow a bunch of money on a tire setup that the M3 can’t use properly. Maybe this is why Tesla chose a sub-par tire for the winter package they’re selling?
 
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