Who has lost regen with winter tires?

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#1
Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in “Technical Bulletin” form of why I had practically zero Regen.
Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims ‘n tires from “All Season” to “Winters”. Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.
Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.

So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we’ll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.
 

darthbenji

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#2
Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in “Technical Bulletin” form of why I had practically zero Regen.
Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims ‘n tires from “All Season” to “Winters”. Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.
Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.

So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we’ll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.
Was this at the Mississauga SC by chance? My friend had his winters installed Friday and has had almost zero regen since regardless of state of charge and battery temp. He only has it at low speeds. Has yours improved? I’m getting mine installed Saturday and really don’t want to have next to no regen all winter. Is this ‘sticky tire’ thing unique to the 3?
 

PNWmisty

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#3
So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we’ll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.
I don't buy that for a minute (that cheaper winter tires with poorer road holding will give you more regen). The Pirelli Winter tires that have been tested by Tesla are not cheap nor do they give you poor road holding. I think you are drawing awfully big conclusions from very little data.

I'm not a fan of jumping to conclusions.
 

darthbenji

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#4
Me neither. I would like to know why this is happening though. Or at least a list of tires that can be used that don’t cause the issue.
 

darthbenji

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#5
This is not a battery temperature or state of charge issue. Those possible affects have been eliminated in discovering this.

A number of model 3 owners have found that once they’ve installed winter tires, the regenerative braking has disappeared at higher speeds. It only kicks in at about 30km/h. Prior to that, manually braking is required.

IF this problem has affected you, and you have ruled out a cold battery or too high of a charge, would you post the winter tires you went with and rims. Also, if anyone with a model S or X has this issue, please post too. I’ve only read it affecting the model 3 and have seen it first hand with replika rims and continental SIs. I have read others have it with OEM rims, Xice and the Nokians.
Here is a post form someone that went to Tesla about it:

Just got my Model 3 RWD back from TESLA Service Center. Had literally no Regen...akin to coasting...had to use breaks all the time. The TESLA Technician and I , both sent info in “Technical Bulletin” form of why I had practically zero Regen.
Just before we (GTA area, Ontario) got an unusual hot spell (28C temp), I had swapped rims ‘n tires from “All Season” to “Winters”. Continental Winter ContactPro SI Tires, to be exact. These tires are rated highly for roadhandling, ice and snow traction and really short stopping distances.

After exhaustive tests by TESLA Tech, it was decided to switch back to All Season Tires and Regen test again.
Hey Presto, back came full Regen. So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.

So, for all us Canadians that drive down south at winter onset, we’ll have practically zero Regen, once we hit Alabama/Georgia and on the way back, get full Regen once in Illinois, Ohio and Michigan...or whatever states you drive through, that are in the northern hemisphere.
Cheaper winter tires with poorer roadholding, will tend to give you better Regen but less safer driving.

Let’s see how widespread this is and whether Tesla can do something about it.
 

garsh

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#6
Ok, this is pretty strange. I can't imagine that this would be the case, but it sounds like you and the Tesla tech did a fair amount of testing. You definitely have a good idea about collecting more information from other people to see if we can figure out the commonality.

would you post the winter tires you went with and rims.
Can you do that too please? :)
  • Do you have separate wheels for your winter tires?
  • Do you have TPMS sensors on the wheels for your winter tires?
  • What size/offset/brand/model of wheels?
  • What size/brand/model of tires?
  • What kind of Model 3 did you observe the issue on?
 

darthbenji

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#7
First hand on a friend’s 3. RWD. He had the replika rims and continentals SIs installed with sensors. I am due for the same install on Saturday. Others have reported the issue with Xice and the R3s. The issue exists with OEM rims also.
 

garsh

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#8
First hand on a friend’s 3. RWD. He had the replika rims and continentals SIs installed with sensors. I am due for the same install on Saturday. Others have reported the issue with Xice and the R3s. The issue exists with OEM rims also.
What sizes were installed?
 

JWardell

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#11
I don't see how the car could do this aside for some reason some strange issue with 3rd party TPMS.
Do you see dots on the regen bar? Any messages?
 

garsh

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#12
So in a nutshell, the winter tires composition I.e. higher content of silicone to keep rubber pliable and not stiff in cold temperatures, makes the same composition advantage, a disadvantage if you drive in warmer weather....too much stiction affecting a Regen module sensitivity.
I don't buy that theory. If excess static friction causes regen to turn off, then nobody would be able to use regen on sticky drag racing strips. And that's not the case.

But, I have a theory. I'm making some assumptions here, because you didn't provide much information in your original post. Please confirm if any of these assumptions are true or false.
  • His OEM wheels are the 19s.
  • The TPMS sensors for the winter wheels were cloned from the original set.
  • The Replika wheels are 18s.
  • This causes the car to be confused by the unexpected change in wheel diameter.
Normally, if you have different (non-cloned) TPMS sensors in your winter wheels, the car will recognize the new sensors after several miles of driving. It will then ask you to select your wheel size. But if your TPMS sensors were cloned from the original ones, the car doesn't realize that you've switched wheels, and still thinks you are running 19s. And now the TPMS sensors are spinning faster than the car expects them to be, and it's confused.
 

darthbenji

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#13
I don't buy that theory. If excess static friction causes regen to turn off, then nobody would be able to use regen on sticky drag racing strips. And that's not the case.

But, I have a theory. I'm making some assumptions here, because you didn't provide much information in your original post. Please confirm if any of these assumptions are true or false.
  • His OEM wheels are the 19s.
  • The TPMS sensors for the winter wheels were cloned from the original set.
  • The Replika wheels are 18s.
  • This causes the car to be confused by the unexpected change in wheel diameter.
Normally, if you have different (non-cloned) TPMS sensors in your winter wheels, the car will recognize the new sensors after several miles of driving. It will then ask you to select your wheel size. But if your TPMS sensors were cloned from the original ones, the car doesn't realize that you've switched wheels, and still thinks you are running 19s. And now the TPMS sensors are spinning faster than the car expects them to be, and it's confused.
Hey thanks for the input. The wheels are the 18s. Went from 18 oem to 18 winters. The tpms sensors are working and displaying pressures. The sensors were purchased form the tire shop. Please let us know if you have any other ideas that might help.
 

darthbenji

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#17
your own thread, the same as the one here
Yes. Others have posted their experiences. It’s a busier board than this one and it was posted in the Canadian forum since a number of us are about to change over to winters or have already.

Of those that don’t have the issue, one is awd and the other is a RWD owner that went with the Tesla pirelli package. There’s yet to be a RWD owner that’s changed to winters say they DO NOT have the issue, apart from the one that went with the Tesla package.
 
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garsh

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#18
Hey thanks for the input. The wheels are the 18s. Went from 18 oem to 18 winters.
Hmmm. Ok, so not a whole inch of diameter difference. But my theory could still be correct - the placement of the TPMS sensors inside of the different wheels may still be at a different enough radius to matter.
The tpms sensors are working and displaying pressures. The sensors were purchased form the tire shop.
BUT... were the new TPMS sensors cloned from the factory originals? When you swap between the winter and summer wheels, does the car have to "rediscover" the new TPMS sensors and ask you to provide the wheel diameter? If not, then they are cloned from the original sensors.

Are you able to answer that question?
 

darthbenji

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#20
Nope. But I’ll do my best to get you the answer. I’m getting mine installed Saturday. Tell me what you want me to insist on to test your theory and I will. Appreciate the ideas. Really.

I wonder if you went with no sensors at all would it happen.
 
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