When near 100% charge - explain volt/amps

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EVmatch: the Airbnb of EV charging.

Nom

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Hi - I wish my range was still 317. But it has dropped. Part of me charging to 100% was curiosity of what it would get to. It was at 288 and holding for 10 minutes about (even though it was charging at 20+ miles per hour - which would suggest adding about 3 miles of range). The battery visual was full green. I would bet that if I had checked the percentage it would have said 100% but I didn’t check so I could be wrong.
 

MnLakeBum

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Wow 32 miles, cool.

I have no idea. But a good possibility.
The opposite for me with my 2015 85D. I was stranded and needed a tow truck twice last May, with 32 and 28 miles remaining on the battery meter, lol. Luckily after another incident last week, Tesla has finally agreed that there is a problem with it and I'm getting a new HV battery pack under warranty when it arrives next week.
 
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JasonF

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Hi - I wish my range was still 317. But it has dropped. Part of me charging to 100% was curiosity of what it would get to. It was at 288 and holding for 10 minutes about (even though it was charging at 20+ miles per hour - which would suggest adding about 3 miles of range). The battery visual was full green. I would bet that if I had checked the percentage it would have said 100% but I didn’t check so I could be wrong.

It sounds like it was 91%-95% - I was told that's when the battery starts rapidly rebalancing. That might be why there was charge going into the battery but the progress seemed to stop.

How does that make sense? Let's say you have a fire hose to fill a bunch of buckets. At first you just blast water over them all to catch as many of them as you possibly can, so you don't have to stand there and meticulously fill each bucket to the top. When they're all almost full, you might look them over and estimate their fullness as close to 95%, because they all look like they're pretty full. But then you slow down the water pressure, and try and top off each and every bucket. Does they mean they're getting more full than 95%? Not necessarily, because you probably overestimated the original 95%, and now you're turning it into a more accurate estimate.

That's kind of a rough approximation of what rebalancing does, but it works.
 
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Wooloomooloo

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Hi - I wish my range was still 317. But it has dropped. Part of me charging to 100% was curiosity of what it would get to. It was at 288 and holding for 10 minutes about (even though it was charging at 20+ miles per hour - which would suggest adding about 3 miles of range). The battery visual was full green. I would bet that if I had checked the percentage it would have said 100% but I didn’t check so I could be wrong.

Do you have anything like TeslaFi to show you your battery health and degradation.

288 seems OK but it's about a 10% drop.
 

Madmolecule

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A couple notes on the charging screen. They are wasting a lot of space showing a big green battery on the screen. Make it provide a lot more information, not only on charging ranges, recommended charging times and levels. You should be able to enter your estimated travel miles over the next few days. And it should be able to come up with a optimize charging plan. It should also calculate the cost to charge to on the screen when you’re at home. You could easily enter your kilowatts per hour rate. It would be nice to see how much it cost to charge when you come out in the morning. I think that would be a big selling feature for Tesla. I am on a time and day rate, so it is extremely cheap to charge at home. $/mile would be a very handy display also.

it also makes sense to have a variable charge rate similar to the Tesla superchargers stations. Would it make more sense to charge for eight hours at 16 amps as opposed to four hours at 32 for example. Or half-and-half.

Actually the reason I wanted to post what is that why in the world do they have the start charging button all the way on the right corner of the screen. Unless the passenger is usually the one that initiates charging it makes no sense to me. Why wouldn’t you just tap the big battery in the middle of the screen.
 

Wooloomooloo

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A couple notes on the charging screen. They are wasting a lot of space showing a big green battery on the screen. Make it provide a lot more information, not only on charging ranges, recommended charging times and levels. You should be able to enter your estimated travel miles over the next few days. And it should be able to come up with a optimize charging plan. It should also calculate the cost to charge to on the screen when you’re at home. You could easily enter your kilowatts per hour rate. It would be nice to see how much it cost to charge when you come out in the morning. I think that would be a big selling feature for Tesla. I am on a time and day rate, so it is extremely cheap to charge at home. $/mile would be a very handy display also.

it also makes sense to have a variable charge rate similar to the Tesla superchargers stations. Would it make more sense to charge for eight hours at 16 amps as opposed to four hours at 32 for example. Or half-and-half.

Actually the reason I wanted to post what is that why in the world do they have the start charging button all the way on the right corner of the screen. Unless the passenger is usually the one that initiates charging it makes no sense to me. Why wouldn’t you just tap the big battery in the middle of the screen.

This is quite a funny post because you spend the first paragraph saying the big green battery is a waste of real-estate, when you could have n-number of extra info and input parameters. You then conclude with, why have a start charging button when you should be able to push the big green battery. This is why Steve Jobs said, users don't know what they want, and why (good) UX designers never work with users. Sorry to make you the butt of it, but I'm sure you see the funny side.

Tesla could definitely provide more information about power consumption, like almost every other EV does (power train, Vs heat, Vs overhead, Vs impact of weather etc). It could drive better choices by the driver. But I think asking the driver to input power usage, $ per kW/h for home, at different times, just seems too fiddly on the UI and 99% of people won't use it. Perhaps an add-on app, or advanced tab might be OK, but Tesla is taking the Apple-design cue of minimal UI clutter... at least most of the time!
 
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Madmolecule

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This is quite a funny post because you spend the first paragraph saying the big green battery is a waste of real-estate, when you could have n-number of extra info and input parameters. You then conclude with, why have a start charging button when you should be able to push the big green battery. This is why Steve Jobs said, users don't know what they want, and why (good) UX designers never work with users. Sorry to make you the butt of it, but I'm sure you see the funny side.

Tesla could definitely provide more information about power consumption, like almost every other EV does (power train, Vs heat, Vs overhead, Vs impact of weather etc). It could drive better choices by the driver. But I think asking the driver to input power usage, $ per kW/h for home, at different times, just seems too fiddly on the UI and 99% of people won't use it. Perhaps an add-on app, or advanced tab might be OK, but Tesla is taking the Apple-design queue of minimal UI clutter... at least most of the time!
Yes the battery is to big and provides very little information. But whatever size it is it should also be the button if you want to chaNNE something or interact with something press the thing you want to interact with. It just saves a button. I agree with you that it is not teslas focus, but they are certainly not Apple elegant. Not even close. They are gaining a tremendous amount of AI information. the point I am trying to make as they use it for themselves FSD, liability protection, insurance rates and for their own benefit and I would like to be able to use this AI information to protect my investment and to improve my drive experience. If they would spend more time on that, I think we could really get a lot of benefit out of all the data they’ve collected. So far it is data and not information. That is not the promise of big data.

I guess I should assume that you’re a fan of the current location of the start charging button. I guess it is an example of non-cluttered elegance. Putting it on the same side of the charge port would not make any sense. This way so that when fat guys like myself have to reach in to turn to start it, it’s a far away as possible.
 
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Feathermerchant

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I never use the start charging button. But I am on a flat rate of 9¢/kWh.
Do people look at a gas pump to see how much they have just paid? I don't think so.
 

Madmolecule

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The home link also covers the start charging button when you open the driver door at home. My car also stopled showing how much it cost to charge at a supercharger. It’s still showing a charge from back in September when I have used it multiple times since then.
I also tried clicking on the lightning bolt above the car on the left side of the screen and all it does is bring up the charging screen. It could be a good start charging button.

2F362957-E5C4-4F3F-A408-EAE93BA43697.jpeg
 
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Wooloomooloo

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Yes the battery is to big and provides very little information. But whatever size it is it should also be the button if you want to chaNNE something or interact with something press the thing you want to interact with. It just saves a button.

It saves a button, but it adds a click for the user. That's not a better user experience, even if it's a better design experience.

As for your desire to use collected data to make better driving decisions, that's interesting but not the kind of thing you'd really want out in the wild. 'AI' in the broadest sense generally makes decisions based on probabilities (which decision as the highest probability of some favorable outcome). So in your example, your display might say "based on analysis of 100,000 trips with the distance you want to travel, the current weather and terrain, charging to at least 60% will give you a 95% probability of reaching your destination". That might be interesting, but have limited utility. What if I need to get back, what if I stay there longer than anticipated, what if I don't like the 1 in 20 chance I won't make it, maybe I should just charge to 90% and have a 50% redundancy... etc. Most people don't want the burden of those calculations, and in that exaggerated example, making the decision suddenly became harder, not easier. Over charging doesn't "waste" energy, it's there later on.

When you push these things out, you have to consider how the average person will interact with it and how their behavior might respond. There are still people now who think the "rated range" adapts to your driving habits, because someone said so on Reddit in 2016. It won't go away. Now imagine all of that misinformation about much more complex data that is actually open to interpretation, and probably best left to data scientists.
 

Feathermerchant

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Mad - Look in your Tesla account history to see if you have actually been charged $ at those Superchargers. When my screen is blank like you described, I see nothing in my account.
 

Madmolecule

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Mad - Look in your Tesla account history to see if you have actually been charged $ at those Superchargers. When my screen is blank like you described, I see nothing in my account.
I have not been charged. If it’s free you think they would get credit for it, but I probably will get a bill at some point With a convenience fee
 

Madmolecule

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It saves a button, but it adds a click for the user. That's not a better user experience, even if it's a better design experience.

As for your desire to use collected data to make better driving decisions, that's interesting but not the kind of thing you'd really want out in the wild. 'AI' in the broadest sense generally makes decisions based on probabilities (which decision as the highest probability of some favorable outcome). So in your example, your display might say "based on analysis of 100,000 trips with the distance you want to travel, the current weather and terrain, charging to at least 60% will give you a 95% probability of reaching your destination". That might be interesting, but have limited utility. What if I need to get back, what if I stay there longer than anticipated, what if I don't like the 1 in 20 chance I won't make it, maybe I should just charge to 90% and have a 50% redundancy... etc. Most people don't want the burden of those calculations, and in that exaggerated example, making the decision suddenly became harder, not easier. Over charging doesn't "waste" energy, it's there later on.

When you push these things out, you have to consider how the average person will interact with it and how their behavior might respond. There are still people now who think the "rated range" adapts to your driving habits, because someone said so on Reddit in 2016. It won't go away. Now imagine all of that misinformation about much more complex data that is actually open to interpretation, and probably best left to data scientists.
I couldn’t disagree more. The data scientist are the last person other than the computer that we want to develop the user interface. Scientist have not studied perspective, you would not hire a scientist as a chef and they certainly should not be developing the user experience if they are not an avid user And a true artist. I think the reason we have such crappy cupholders is Elon is never driven more than three hours in a Tesla, he’s too busy. If engineers and scientists designed everything they would have right angles for easy construction. Nothing in nature has right angles. It can’t be all engineers you need some Architects for the gingerbread. I thought Amber at least thought Elon symmetry

Enginnering the Wheel
 
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