Wheel/Tyre Discussion

Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
5
Location
Indiana
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Needing new tires for my Model 3 RWD. Wife curbed the rims a bit and rear tires wore out FAST (15k miles). So, thinking I want more tread in the back. Also, want at least 245 to protect from curbing, but not too wide to hinder aerodynamics/range. Scouring the internet, I see the following sizes work: 235/45-18 (stock), 255/40-18, and 245/45-18. But if I put the 255/40-18 in rear with 245/45-18 in front, the rear tires are shorter than front and would prefer tall in back. Is anyone aware of anyone doing a staggered setup of 255/45R18 on stock Aero rear wheels and 245/45R18 on stock Aero front wheels? I am thinking of getting the Continental EC DWS06. I saw that @Mad Hungarian once mentioned that 255/45R18 would fit the wheel, but would likely hit the front knuckle, but what about the rear?
 

Attachments

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Needing new tires for my Model 3 RWD. Wife curbed the rims a bit and rear tires wore out FAST (15k miles). So, thinking I want more tread in the back. Also, want at least 245 to protect from curbing, but not too wide to hinder aerodynamics/range. Scouring the internet, I see the following sizes work: 235/45-18 (stock), 255/40-18, and 245/45-18. But if I put the 255/40-18 in rear with 245/45-18 in front, the rear tires are shorter than front and would prefer tall in back. Is anyone aware of anyone doing a staggered setup of 255/45R18 on stock Aero rear wheels and 245/45R18 on stock Aero front wheels? I am thinking of getting the Continental EC DWS06. I saw that @Mad Hungarian once mentioned that 255/45R18 would fit the wheel, but would likely hit the front knuckle, but what about the rear?
There should be no issue at all running the 255/45R18 in the rear, there's GOBS of room back there on this car.
It might even fit up front but that would likely would come down to which exact model of tire you use. This is because the 255 mm is only a measure of Section Width, that is the widest point from sidewall to sidewall. The actual tread width and shoulder shape vary quite dramatically from one model to the next in a given size, and it's the inside shoulder and top corner edge of the tread surface that risks touching the knuckle.
 

Steve

Active Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
69
Location
Modesto, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Fronts 235/45/18, Rears 265/40/18 Continental Extreme Ultra High Performance All Season (Tire Rack) is one set that would work. 8-8.5 rims in front, 9-9.5 in rear. Make sure wheel offset is correct, (Tire Rack can help with this). Both sizes have same overall diameter.
 

P-Lo801

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
96
Location
Sacramento, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Hey everyone, I started a thread about this in the tmc forum, but I thought I would share it here as well to get people's thoughts.

I had an interesting encounter with America's Tire (aka Discount Tire Direct). My car came with the aeros, and I inquired in person about getting a quote for tires in size 235/40/19 since I'm upgrading to 19" wheels. I specifically asked for the OEM Continentals (ProContact RX) that come with the optional 19" sport wheel package, which, as you all know, are also listed in the owner's manual. However, they said they couldn't sell it to me because it doesn't match the load rating that my car came with with my aeros, which are 98W...while the Continentals, and the rest of the 235/40 sizes they sell for that matter, are rated 96W and lower.

I kept explaining to the rep that these Continentals I'm interested in buying are the exact same tires that Tesla puts on the model 3s with the sport wheel upgrades, and that it's even listed on my owner's manual. But they cannot and are not willing to sell me the tires because they don't match the load rating that's on my door jamb. They said that the only way they would sell me the tires is to ask Tesla to switch out the door jamb label (which i'm not even sure is possible?), or I go with 245/40 size at minimum.

I have never experienced this before because I've never gone one size up with aftermarket wheels, so this is so frustratingly bizarre. I specifically opted not to upgrade to the 19 sport wheels when I ordered my car because I knew I would eventually go this direction and get lighter aftermarket 19" wheels anyway.

Has anyone else experienced this when upgrading from 18s to a larger size, or just going one size up on any of your current or previous cars in general? I know I can go with other tire shops, but I have had really good experience with AT with my previous car, and I was hoping to take advantage of their promotions and financing options.
 

NJturtlePower

Living the Dream, Driving the Future!
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
1,152
Location
Flemington, NJ
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Hey everyone, I started a thread about this in the tmc forum, but I thought I would share it here as well to get people's thoughts.

I had an interesting encounter with America's Tire (aka Discount Tire Direct). My car came with the aeros, and I inquired in person about getting a quote for tires in size 235/40/19 since I'm upgrading to 19" wheels. I specifically asked for the OEM Continentals (ProContact RX) that come with the optional 19" sport wheel package, which, as you all know, are also listed in the owner's manual. However, they said they couldn't sell it to me because it doesn't match the load rating that my car came with with my aeros, which are 98W...while the Continentals, and the rest of the 235/40 sizes they sell for that matter, are rated 96W and lower.

I kept explaining to the rep that these Continentals I'm interested in buying are the exact same tires that Tesla puts on the model 3s with the sport wheel upgrades, and that it's even listed on my owner's manual. But they cannot and are not willing to sell me the tires because they don't match the load rating that's on my door jamb. They said that the only way they would sell me the tires is to ask Tesla to switch out the door jamb label (which i'm not even sure is possible?), or I go with 245/40 size at minimum.

I have never experienced this before because I've never gone one size up with aftermarket wheels, so this is so frustratingly bizarre. I specifically opted not to upgrade to the 19 sport wheels when I ordered my car because I knew I would eventually go this direction and get lighter aftermarket 19" wheels anyway.

Has anyone else experienced this when upgrading from 18s to a larger size, or just going one size up on any of your current or previous cars in general? I know I can go with other tire shops, but I have had really good experience with AT with my previous car, and I was hoping to take advantage of their promotions and financing options.
  1. Pick a different tire with a higher load rating...the ProContact RX aren't so hot anyways.
  2. Pick the 245/40's vs the 235/40 (as they recommended) since they are basically the same size and will give you an extra bit of contact patch/improved handling.
 

P-Lo801

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
96
Location
Sacramento, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
  1. Pick a different tire with a higher load rating...the ProContact RX aren't so hot anyways.
  2. Pick the 245/40's vs the 235/40 (as they recommended) since they are basically the same size and will give you an extra bit of contact patch/improved handling.
I've considered that, but my aim is to stay as OEM as possible and keep the same range. so i want to stick with 235/40. I'm not going with the Conti Pro RX anymore as I have read how crappy they are. I'm now going to go with either Vredestein Quatrac 5 or the Continental PureContact LS. Fortunately, I found another local shop that can get me either ones already, even though I would have preferred AT.
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
I've considered that, but my aim is to stay as OEM as possible and keep the same range. so i want to stick with 235/40. I'm not going with the Conti Pro RX anymore as I have read how crappy they are. I'm now going to go with either Vredestein Quatrac 5 or the Continental PureContact LS. Fortunately, I found another local shop that can get me either ones already, even though I would have preferred AT.
We run into this issue with everyone from regulatory agencies, tire manufacturers on down to retailers all the time. It's basically a huge case of CYA... no one wants the liability of being on the hook if something happens to one of your tires and it's discovered that entity x/y/z was involved with supplying you a tire that had a load index number inferior to the original on the car.
Of course there are cases historically where this has been abused, where someone has installed a tire with not simply a lower load index, but one so low that even at max pressure the tire will not carry the calculated load of the original. That's obviously a problem.
But that's not what we're looking at here. Obviously using the lower load index of the OE 19" is perfectly safe, and in fact the calculated load carrying abilities of both the 18" and 19" OE tires are vastly more than what the highest axle load permissible for the vehicle demands. Even the much lower 92 XL rating of the Performance 20" size can carry 15% more weight than the highest Model 3 gross axle weight requirement.
Where I can sympathize with all these various parties being so cautious is the fact that on many vehicles that are OE equipped with different size / load index tire options you will find that the recommended inflation pressures do change, and changing the placard is important in ensuring that the new load index tire gets inflated correctly no matter where it gets serviced. Here at Fastco when we ship any wheel and tire package with a load index different than OE we always include a new placard with a recalculated inflation pressure for this exact reason.
However in this case re-placarding is a bit moot, as all Model 3 recommended inflation pressures are 42 PSI or 45 PSI, and the load carrying capacity of all euro-metric XL load passenger car tires maxes out at 42 PSI anyway.
 
Last edited:

P-Lo801

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
96
Location
Sacramento, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
We run into this issue with everyone from regulatory agencies, tire manufacturers on down to retailers all the time. It's basically a huge case of CYA... no one wants the liability of being on the hook if something happens to one of your tires and it's discovered that entity x/y/z was involved with supplying you a tire that had a load index number inferior to the original on the car.
Of course there are cases historically where this has been abused, where someone has installed a tire with not simply a lower load index, but one so low that even at max pressure the tire will not carry the calculated load of the original. That's obviously a problem.
But that's not what we're looking at here. Obviously using the lower load index of the OE 19" is perfectly safe, and in fact the calculated load carrying abilities of both the 18" and 19" OE tires are vastly more than what the highest axle load permissible for the vehicle demands. Even the much lower 92 XL rating of the Performance 20" size can carry 15% more weight than the highest Model 3 gross axle weight requirement.
Where I can sympathize with all these various parties being so cautious is the fact that on many vehicles that are OE equipped with different size / load index tire options you will find that the recommended inflation pressures do change, and changing the placard is important in ensuring that the new load index tire gets inflated correctly no matter where it gets serviced. Here at Fastco when we ship any wheel and tire package with a load index different than OE we always include a new placard with a recalculated inflation pressure for this exact reason.
However in this case re-placarding is a bit moot, as all Model 3 recommended inflation pressures are 42 PSI or 45 PSI, and the load carrying capacity of all euro-metric XL load passenger car tires maxes out at 42 PSI anyway.
Thanks for such an insightful post. Would Tesla be willing to change out the label on my door jamb? I haven't gotten around to asking them yet. Is that what you meant by placard?
 

P-Lo801

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2019
Messages
96
Location
Sacramento, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
@Mad Hungarian and others:

I want to get your take on the three tires i'm considering. These are my priorities in this order:

- Range - no less than what i'm currently getting with OE MXM4
- comfort/noise - willing to take a hit on this knowing that I will not be getting Tesla tires with the foam inserts, but the least possible noise increase preferred
- performance - basically want tires that can handle the torque the same way the OEM MXM4s do. I like that when I want to launch it to show off my car's 0-60 to passengers, I get no screeching. I also want it to be able to handle the occasional spirited driving through twists and curves. I will not be doing any tracking on this whatsoever.

Continental PureContact LS - i'm leaning towards this because I think it checks off on all of my priorities above. The bonus is that it weighs a little over 23lbs. Combined with the 19" wheels that I just got (forgestar CF5V), which are 20lbs, i'll shave off more than 3lbs each corner compared to my OEM aero setup.

Vredestein Quatrac 5 - Based on the reviews on tirerack, these have a lot more than the PureContact LS, and are 3-peak mountain snowflake certified. The cost is also a huge plus. According to the reviews i've read, these can be regarded as summer friendly winter tires. My only hesitation is the weight, which is 26lbs. Would it really make a difference compared to weighing 3lbs more than the LS?

Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus - Has the most reviews, and what really catches my attention is the ratings on noise and comfort. Plus, it seems to offer the same performance and range as the other two above. Cost is between the other two as well. Only downside is the wet weather performance, but it's not like i'll be driving spiritedly during rainy conditions anyway.
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Thanks for such an insightful post. Would Tesla be willing to change out the label on my door jamb? I haven't gotten around to asking them yet. Is that what you meant by placard?
Hmmm, interesting question, in theory they should. Because Tesla does offer both the 19" and 20" Sport wheels/tires as an option in their accessory lineup they also should be able to re-placard a car.
U.S. reg FMVSS 571.110 states that dealers (or "stores" in this case) are obligated to ensure that when they deliver a new car to a customer that the tire specs and inflation information on the placard matches what's installed on the car, so if they change the tires prior to delivering the car to you they need to be able to update the placard. I know Transport Canada uses this same regulation virtually verbatim, and Toyota Canada had to issue a recall years ago on a few dozen cars that got delivered with incorrect placards after the tires had been switched prior to final delivery.
Now, whether or not Tesla will do this for you if you just show up with your own new 19" setup - even one that matches their specs exactly - is another matter. But certainly worth inquiring.

P.S.: Yes, in our discussion placard = label :)
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
@Mad Hungarian and others:

I want to get your take on the three tires i'm considering. These are my priorities in this order:

- Range - no less than what i'm currently getting with OE MXM4
- comfort/noise - willing to take a hit on this knowing that I will not be getting Tesla tires with the foam inserts, but the least possible noise increase preferred
- performance - basically want tires that can handle the torque the same way the OEM MXM4s do. I like that when I want to launch it to show off my car's 0-60 to passengers, I get no screeching. I also want it to be able to handle the occasional spirited driving through twists and curves. I will not be doing any tracking on this whatsoever.

Continental PureContact LS - i'm leaning towards this because I think it checks off on all of my priorities above. The bonus is that it weighs a little over 23lbs. Combined with the 19" wheels that I just got (forgestar CF5V), which are 20lbs, i'll shave off more than 3lbs each corner compared to my OEM aero setup.

Vredestein Quatrac 5 - Based on the reviews on tirerack, these have a lot more than the PureContact LS, and are 3-peak mountain snowflake certified. The cost is also a huge plus. According to the reviews i've read, these can be regarded as summer friendly winter tires. My only hesitation is the weight, which is 26lbs. Would it really make a difference compared to weighing 3lbs more than the LS?

Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus - Has the most reviews, and what really catches my attention is the ratings on noise and comfort. Plus, it seems to offer the same performance and range as the other two above. Cost is between the other two as well. Only downside is the wet weather performance, but it's not like i'll be driving spiritedly during rainy conditions anyway.
I can't speak first hand to the Vredestein or the Pirelli, however I do know that many folks seem very pleased with both of those choices, especially the combination of performance and range of the P7.
I CAN however say that I had the old version of the PureContact on the car just prior to switching them out for some tests with the MXM4 and as such can state that it's pretty much a wash in terms of which is the better performer but the Contis were definitely more comfortable, much less sensitive to minor impacts. And that's saying a lot, because the MXM4s are hardly objectionable in the ride department. My only complaint about the PureContact was noise, but that's been apparently greatly reduced in the new LS version, so hopefully it lines up to the MXM4 now in that regard.
 
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
5
Location
Indiana
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
There should be no issue at all running the 255/45R18 in the rear, there's GOBS of room back there on this car.
It might even fit up front but that would likely would come down to which exact model of tire you use. This is because the 255 mm is only a measure of Section Width, that is the widest point from sidewall to sidewall. The actual tread width and shoulder shape vary quite dramatically from one model to the next in a given size, and it's the inside shoulder and top corner edge of the tread surface that risks touching the knuckle.
@Mad Hungarian , thanks so much for this info. I pulled the trigger this weekend. I bought the slightly staggered tires as proposed -- Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 245/45R18 in front and 255/45R18 in the back. It looks good and seem to fit nicely. My last 1521 miles got 281 Wh/mi with the original Michelin tires with Aero wheels without Aero covers on. When I got the car back I was surprised that the Regen braking was not working. I was not aware that it takes some time to train/calibrate. I wish Tesla would have displayed a message saying that, because I was freaking out for a day wondering if this was a mistake and would work. But today the regen braking is working perfectly again. So I reset one of my mileage trackers (after regen started working) and named it "New Staggered Tires". I'll post pictures and screenshots later. My 24.4 mile drive this morning got me 259 Wh/mi. So, it will take some time to really see how my efficiency is impacted, but so far it does not look to be bad. They are NOT more noisy than the old tires. If anything they sound more quiet to me. I can't comment on the performance yet because I wanted the let the car calibrate the TPMS and regen stuff so I have not yet tried much there. TBD. So far, very happy with this setup and hopeful it will last longer than the old ones because of the better treadwear and width. Although, I did get the Discount tire wear coverage for just the two rear tires. I suspect that will not be a good deal for Discount Tire. Also, if someone wants to protect the rims from getting curbed the 245/45R18 are fine for that. They are much better than the OE Michelins.

I have a question though... Since the tires are a larger diameter, the distance tracking and speedometer will be off a bit. Will the car re-calibrate this with GPS/Accelerometer or does it stupidly stay fixed? If it does re-calibrate, anyone know how long that takes? If it stays fixed, that means I am travelling a longer distance than the car thinks and my Wh/mi are actually better now than the car is displaying. Certainly good news for range, but bad news for tracking efficiency and mileage.
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
@Mad Hungarian , thanks so much for this info. I pulled the trigger this weekend. I bought the slightly staggered tires as proposed -- Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 245/45R18 in front and 255/45R18 in the back. It looks good and seem to fit nicely. My last 1521 miles got 281 Wh/mi with the original Michelin tires with Aero wheels without Aero covers on. When I got the car back I was surprised that the Regen braking was not working. I was not aware that it takes some time to train/calibrate. I wish Tesla would have displayed a message saying that, because I was freaking out for a day wondering if this was a mistake and would work. But today the regen braking is working perfectly again. So I reset one of my mileage trackers (after regen started working) and named it "New Staggered Tires". I'll post pictures and screenshots later. My 24.4 mile drive this morning got me 259 Wh/mi. So, it will take some time to really see how my efficiency is impacted, but so far it does not look to be bad. They are NOT more noisy than the old tires. If anything they sound more quiet to me. I can't comment on the performance yet because I wanted the let the car calibrate the TPMS and regen stuff so I have not yet tried much there. TBD. So far, very happy with this setup and hopeful it will last longer than the old ones because of the better treadwear and width. Although, I did get the Discount tire wear coverage for just the two rear tires. I suspect that will not be a good deal for Discount Tire. Also, if someone wants to protect the rims from getting curbed the 245/45R18 are fine for that. They are much better than the OE Michelins.

I have a question though... Since the tires are a larger diameter, the distance tracking and speedometer will be off a bit. Will the car re-calibrate this with GPS/Accelerometer or does it stupidly stay fixed? If it does re-calibrate, anyone know how long that takes? If it stays fixed, that means I am travelling a longer distance than the car thinks and my Wh/mi are actually better now than the car is displaying. Certainly good news for range, but bad news for tracking efficiency and mileage.
From my experience the car is not using GPS for speed or distance calibration, as I when I run my 255/40R18 I definitely see the expected 1% or so increase in speed displayed compared to the GPS reading with the 235/45R18.
So be aware that in your case you are going to be under-reading mileage and you'll need to factor that in to your efficiency comparison. The question now is whether or not that'll be by 1.5%, 3.0% or something in between, depending on whether the car is using the front, rear or an average of the two axles to determine speed and distance.
 
Joined
May 24, 2019
Messages
5
Location
Indiana
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
From my experience the car is not using GPS for speed or distance calibration, as I when I run my 255/40R18 I definitely see the expected 1% or so increase in speed displayed compared to the GPS reading with the 235/45R18.
So be aware that in your case you are going to be under-reading mileage and you'll need to factor that in to your efficiency comparison. The question now is whether or not that'll be by 1.5%, 3.0% or something in between, depending on whether the car is using the front, rear or an average of the two axles to determine speed and distance.
Great points. So you don't believe it will recalibrate somehow automatically? I have to just do the math...? bummer. Is there a cheap device I can use to measure my speed? That will allow me to compute my real efficiency... I've seen some people have acceleromter based devices for measuring 0-60 times and stuff.
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Great points. So you don't believe it will recalibrate somehow automatically? I have to just do the math...? bummer. Is there a cheap device I can use to measure my speed? That will allow me to compute my real efficiency... I've seen some people have acceleromter based devices for measuring 0-60 times and stuff.
Lots of phone apps that have a reasonably accurate GPS speedometer incorporated, I've tested the speedometer in the Waze app against my Garmin GPS and it's pretty bang-on.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
10,816
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
Pictures with tires. The stagger is not really noticeable. So far the efficiency is similar to before. We'll see long term what happens.
View attachment 26281 View attachment 26282 View attachment 26283 View attachment 26284 View attachment 26285 View attachment 26286 View attachment 26287 View attachment 26288
Looks good.
Side benefit: that slightly wider tire will save your rims from curb rash the next time you misjudge a little during parking.

Your efficiency should improve a little more as the tires wear in as well. Sounds like this was a good choice. :cool:
 

RUN TM3

Active Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
59
Location
Los Angeles, California
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
@Mad Hungarian, I'd like to raise my M3 a little as I occasionally scrape my undercarriage on my driveway. I'm currently on 245/40-19s. I'd like to go up to 245/45-19s. Other than the speedo/odo being off, what are the cons of using such tall tires?
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
931
Location
Montreal, QC
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
@Mad Hungarian, I'd like to raise my M3 a little as I occasionally scrape my undercarriage on my driveway. I'm currently on 245/40-19s. I'd like to go up to 245/45-19s. Other than the speedo/odo being off, what are the cons of using such tall tires?
Oooooh, I'm not sure that's going to be possible.
The limiting factor is the room available between the top of the front tire and the underside of the front suspension knuckle upper link, which is around 0.75".

1562692460744.png

The 245/45R19 tire you want to use is 27.7" in O.D. v.s. the 26.4" of the OE 235/45R19.
So at the radius (what matters in the case) you're talking an increase of 0.65".
That's going to be awwwwwfully close, and when you factor in the possible variations in tread width, sidewall and shoulder contouring from one tire model to the next it may come down to exactly which make and model of tire you try as to whether it'll fit.
If you really want more height you would have a better chance fitting a 235/45R19.