V9 Features: Nav on Autopilot

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nonStopSwagger

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I guess I normally drive with a bit of constant torque on the wheel, so there's never actually a "confirmation". But that's just me I guess. If your method of using autopilot is to sit without your hands on the wheel and then wait for the nag and give the wheel a nudge, I guess you could interpret that as a "confirmation".

I do know that they talk about FSD, but I don't think they are referring to it as Full Self Driving at this point. Still just autopilot (or really, Navigate on Autopilot). I guess the question is, what would you prefer? To wait until the system is 100% perfected and fully autonomous, or for them to release it in stages and undergo incremental improvements? I guess you have a choice there as well. If you prefer, you can simply wait and not pay for FSD until it gets to level 5 and just not worry about the fact that it's not fully autonomous yet.
I paid for FSD when I placed my order last June. Honestly, I had plans to just pay for AP, but that darn demo video they made in 2016 (model X doing FSD) was playing in the configurator autopilot page as I was rushing in my order. Anyway a moment of weakness took me, and here I am today....
 

RSavage

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It doesn't actually switch lanes without confirmation. Requires a little bit of torque for it to move over. If you never provide that torque it cancels the change.
So for example AP gives you the blue screen nag, you torque and it's happy for 45 more seconds. Then NOA wants to change lanes 5 seconds after your last torque, needs torque again.
Your description is somewhat misleading and not in line with the description given by Tesla. AP always wants to know you are there and paying attention. I keep my thumb and forefinger on the lower part of the wheel CONSTANTLY and apply a VERY slight amout of radial pressure at all times. I am NEVER nagged...ever. If you are driving around with your hands completely off the wheel, you are making your life more complicated, and asking the car to do something it's not designed to do. By suggesting that you must somehow TORQUE the wheel for any reason is silly....anything more than very small amounts of radial pressure will immediately disengage AP. As far as NOA not being FSD.....there's no argument there....that's clearly stated by Tesla....NOA is absolutely not FSD at this point.
 

GDN

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From reading the details, it sounds like they have moved NOA lane changes from
  • Old behavior - you clicking the control stalks on the column to confirm a change
  • New behavior - you actively torqueing the wheel. Even if you told autopilot 5 seconds ago with a torque "I'm here", NOA won't make that new lane change it wants to do RIGHT NOW, unless you first torque the wheel again.
So, still needs a "confirm" of sorts, but instead of hitting the indicator, you turn the wheel. Not really doing it all by itself.

Until they remove the nags, they should stop calling these driver aids "Full Self Driving". Its still looking for input. Maybe PSD instead?
I think it has been said in a reply or two for you, but no, the new NOA described will make the decision and make the lane change without your input. You touching the wheel to let AP know you are still awake and aware has nothing to do with the lane change. That happens at all times on AP, it needs to know you are there.
 

nonStopSwagger

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Your description is somewhat misleading and not in line with the description given by Tesla. AP always wants to know you are there and paying attention. I keep my thumb and forefinger on the lower part of the wheel CONSTANTLY and apply a VERY slight amout of radial pressure at all times. I am NEVER nagged...ever. If you are driving around with your hands completely off the wheel, you are making your life more complicated, and asking the car to do something it's not designed to do. By suggesting that you must somehow TORQUE the wheel for any reason is silly....anything more than very small amounts of radial pressure will immediately disengage AP. As far as NOA not being FSD.....there's no argument there....that's clearly stated by Tesla....NOA is absolutely not FSD at this point.
I drive with one hand at the 7 o clock position with AP on. Still get occasional nags. Clearly I'm not doing it right. Feels worse with 8.3 than prior versions.

The example I gave above for NoA is to illustrate that it wants driver feedback before making the lane change manover. Lots of folks on Reddit chatting about it tonight who have the beta, with mixed opinions.

Tesla are very misleading using the term full self driving. If you ask any non Tesla owner what they think it means, they will give you a very different answer to what Tesla owners know it means, at least today anyway.

Still love my car.
 

tipton

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you definitely do not have to confirm lane changes via torque on the wheel (unless the blue need to confirm notification just so happens to coincide)

you can set wheel to vibrate and for a chime to occur when the car is going to change lanes and there is ample time to cancel
 

JDM3

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you definitely do not have to confirm lane changes via torque on the wheel (unless the blue need to confirm notification just so happens to coincide)

you can set wheel to vibrate and for a chime to occur when the car is going to change lanes and there is ample time to cancel
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I've always had to torque the wheel during my testing, otherwise the lane change will cancel. My hands are always on the wheel and sometimes I get nagged, other times I don't. Still haven't figured out the right pressure I guess.
 

NOGA$4ME

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I paid for FSD when I placed my order last June. Honestly, I had plans to just pay for AP, but that darn demo video they made in 2016 (model X doing FSD) was playing in the configurator autopilot page as I was rushing in my order. Anyway a moment of weakness took me, and here I am today....
Well this is probably an entirely different discussion. When I bought my 3, I did not get FSD because despite what Elon keeps saying (which is the real problem that he keeps talking about it like it's going to show up in a few months), I figure it will be years before we see anything resembling what I would consider self-driving, if only due to regulations, but also due to various challenges in getting that last 5-10% of challenging situations. I love Tesla and overall think they are doing an excellent job in advancing EV technology, but in the case of self-driving I think they are seriously over-estimating the difficulty in getting to a full level 5 capability (although I do think they will eventually get there). For that reason I felt that an FSD purchase at the time would not be justified (other than giving Tesla a free down payment) as I would be buying a product that would not be available for a long time.

Now when the price was temporarily dropped to $2K for me, I did bite. I do think they will roll out enough intermediate features over the next several years to make me feel like that was a good investment.

But I do understand your position, and I have to put the blame on Elon who keeps talking like by the end of the year we will see most FSD features, and what we end up seeing are significant, but not really "full" improvements. That's the eventual goal for sure. At least they did the right thing by pulling mention of FSD off the standard order page.
 

hydrofied714

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I tried Navigate On Autopilot once but stopped using it after how poorly it handled the freeway exit. It just abruptly swerved to right exit lane. Freaked me out to be honest. Have they improved this? Also I was wondering what the car does once it exits the driver has to take over? Does it come to a stop and Autopilot is disabled?
 

lance.bailey

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when the car exits the freeway (by itself :) ) I get a message about Navigate On Autopilot ending in XX distance. When it ends the car changes to AutoSteer/AutoPilot which I usually change to TACC because I find that AutoSteer/AutoPilot does not handle the forks/merges/turn-lanes and general craziness of exit ramps where I live.
 

Needsdecaf

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Anyone notice AP / NOA quality DEGRADE a bit? After successfully running this software since last week, and noting that everything was quite smooth, I noticed yesterday the car seemed to be tracking less true while headed straight ahead. Also noticed that in traffic it was on/ off / on / off the acceleration instead of fairly smooth. Was similar again this morning.
 

iChris93

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when the car exits the freeway (by itself :) ) I get a message about Navigate On Autopilot ending in XX distance. When it ends the car changes to AutoSteer/AutoPilot which I usually change to TACC because I find that AutoSteer/AutoPilot does not handle the forks/merges/turn-lanes and general craziness of exit ramps where I live.
I usually end both TACC and AutoSteer as the car likes to accelerate to take an exit and I prefer to drive more efficiently and coast to the intersection.
 

hydrofied714

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when the car exits the freeway (by itself :) ) I get a message about Navigate On Autopilot ending in XX distance. When it ends the car changes to AutoSteer/AutoPilot which I usually change to TACC because I find that AutoSteer/AutoPilot does not handle the forks/merges/turn-lanes and general craziness of exit ramps where I live.
Thanks. How well does AP handle the forks?
 

lance.bailey

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AP handles forks pretty good on roads, but off ramps seem hard. there is one exit ramp from the free way (91 exit from 99 south for those in the greater Vancouver area) that AP and NoAP just cannot handle.
 

FrancoisP

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If there is one thing that scares my wife, it's NoAP merging onto the exit ramp. She begs me to cancel NoAP when we're close to exiting the highway. And I see her point. When I compare the smoothness of changing lanes to the aggressiveness of exiting the highway it's hard to believe that both functions were created by the same software group. I'm hoping that Tesla will address this in the near future.