V9 Feature: No Confirmation Lane Change

  • SUPPORT THE SITE AND ENJOY A PREMIUM EXPERIENCE!
    Welcome to Tesla Owners Online, four years young! For a low subscription fee, you will receive access to an ad-free version of TOO. We now offer yearly memberships! You can subscribe via this direct link:
    https://teslaownersonline.com/account/upgrades

    SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
    Did you know we have a YouTube channel that's all about Tesla? Lots of Tesla information, fun, vlogs, product reviews, and a weekly Tesla Owners Online Podcast as well!

undergrove

Active member
Joined
Jan 17, 2018
Messages
102
Location
Fillmore, CA (Ventura County)
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#61
If you are in no confirmation mode with noa and you do a manual Lane change by turning on the signal does it give up and stop doing Lane changes itself? Seems like it's always timed out for awhile before this release but now I don't think I've seen it do Lane changes after I've done a manual one.
I have done manually initiated lane changes a number of times while on NoA in no confirmation mode. It continues to function as before.
 

nonStopSwagger

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
240
Location
NH
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#62
Anybody recommend a comfortable hand position to avoid the nag with NoA?

My old position of 7 OC doesn't seem to generate enough torque anymore. So basically NoA nag is constant before any lane change. If I move my hand up to 8 OC, it becomes uncomfortable to hold it there after a while. Staying at 7 OC but forcing more torque is also not comfortable.

1.5lb ankle weight time?
 

Needsdecaf

Top-Contributor
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
1,250
Location
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#65
I have pretty much given up on NOA except in the lightest traffic.

1. "no confirmation' requires more confirmation than actually confirming with your blinker. Force on wheel disengages autosteer at least 25% of the time.
2. Takes too bloody long to make a lane change AFTER you've tugged the wheel to confirm. Even the most distant traffic will pass you.
3. Changing lanes yourself (via signal) keeps you more alert to traffic.
4. SERIOUS slow down when existing a ramp....500 yards before ON THE RAMP......almost resulting in me getting rear-ended more than once.

It's good and it's getting there, but it's not ready for any kind of traffic yet.
 

tivoboy

Top-Contributor
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
671
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Country
Country
#66
I have pretty much given up on NOA except in the lightest traffic.

1. "no confirmation' requires more confirmation than actually confirming with your blinker. Force on wheel disengages autosteer at least 25% of the time.
2. Takes too bloody long to make a lane change AFTER you've tugged the wheel to confirm. Even the most distant traffic will pass you.
3. Changing lanes yourself (via signal) keeps you more alert to traffic.
4. SERIOUS slow down when existing a ramp....500 yards before ON THE RAMP......almost resulting in me getting rear-ended more than once.

It's good and it's getting there, but it's not ready for any kind of traffic yet.
Yep that pretty much sums it up nicely.
 

Long Ranger

Top-Contributor
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
511
Location
Seattle
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#67
I have pretty much given up on NOA except in the lightest traffic.

1. "no confirmation' requires more confirmation than actually confirming with your blinker. Force on wheel disengages autosteer at least 25% of the time.
2. Takes too bloody long to make a lane change AFTER you've tugged the wheel to confirm. Even the most distant traffic will pass you.
3. Changing lanes yourself (via signal) keeps you more alert to traffic.
4. SERIOUS slow down when existing a ramp....500 yards before ON THE RAMP......almost resulting in me getting rear-ended more than once.

It's good and it's getting there, but it's not ready for any kind of traffic yet.
I definitely agree that it's not ready for much traffic at all, and it still has a long ways to go. All valid points above (although I haven't had much issue with 1 or 4), but I'm a bit surprised that so much of the criticism I've seen is directed at what I'd call the "execution of lane changes".

To me, the big issue that makes it nearly unusable is the poor "decision making on lane changes". I find that about 90% of the suggested lane changes are terrible decisions, trying to merge into cars, passing on the right instead of the left, etc. Setting speed-based lane changes to Mild helps, but it still makes terrible suggestions. And if I tap on the screen to delay, the car really doesn't like that answer. It comes right back with the same prompt in a fraction of a second.

Yesterday, I counted 18 consecutive delay presses before it finally gave up on its insistence to get in the right lane 4.5 miles before my exit. That's the stuff that gets me to shut it off despite my efforts to test it out.
 

Jay79

Top-Contributor
Joined
Aug 18, 2018
Messages
598
Location
Michigan
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#68
Its not what we hoped for but we all know it will get better with more data sent back to Tesla. For sure not ready for moderate to heavy traffic yet, decision making is terrible and causes me to keep cancelling the lane changes.
 

SalisburySam

Well-known member
TOO Supporting Member
Green Level Supporter
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
338
Location
Salisbury, NC
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#69
For me, I’ve seen no advantage and some disadvantages to the no-confirmation lane change. I’ve found initiating lane changes with the turn signal very easy, mostly intuitive, and works far better. Yeah, I’ve turned off the no-confirm “feature.” While using it, I did submit a bug report each time it did something I found unsafe or otherwise problematic. But I’ve had enough guinea-pigging on this item.
 

Ken Voss

Top-Contributor
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
452
Location
San Francisco Bay Area
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#70
Anyone notice that NoA is overly aggressive in lane changing? Often I find that it changes lanes for no apparent reason, for example I can be say 20 miles from my exit with light traffic in the Number 1 lane (far left) cruising at 75MPH with no one in front or behind me when for no reason it decides to move one lane to the right, OK fine. But then 30 seconds later it moves back into the Number 1 lane, whats up with that? Under the conditions I am describing it is not trying to pass slow traffic and it is not trying to let someone behind me pass, there is no logical reason for this behavior.

I prefer Mad Max mode but have tried all modes and it behaves the same way in every mode. Clearly the mode is about how quickly it executes a lane change not about how frequently it does it.
 

GDN

Moderator
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
4,330
Location
Far North Dallas, TX
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#71
I prefer Mad Max mode but have tried all modes and it behaves the same way in every mode. Clearly the mode is about how quickly it executes a lane change not about how frequently it does it.

I honestly think it is just the opposite. Not how quickly it changes but how frequently. Turn that down off of Mad Max one setting and I think you'll have a better experience. page 76 of the current owners manual:

"Speed Based Lane Changes: Navigate on Autopilot is designed to perform both routebased and speed-based lane changes. Routebased lane changes are designed to keep you on your navigation route (for example, moving you into an adjacent lane to prepare for an upcoming off-ramp) whereas speed-based lane changes are designed to maintain a driving speed (not to exceed your cruising speed) that allows you to minimize the time it takes to reach your destination (for example, moving into an adjacent lane to pass a vehicle in front of you). Speed-based lanes changes are optional. You can use this setting to disable speed-based lane changes or to specify how aggressively you want Navigate on Autopilot to change lanes to achieve the set cruising speed. The MILD setting is more conservative about lane changes and may result in a slightly longer driving time whereas MAD MAX is designed to allow you to reach your destination in the shortest driving time possible, but will only change lanes when safe to do so. "
 

tivoboy

Top-Contributor
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
671
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Country
Country
#72
Anyone notice that NoA is overly aggressive in lane changing? Often I find that it changes lanes for no apparent reason, for example I can be say 20 miles from my exit with light traffic in the Number 1 lane (far left) cruising at 75MPH with no one in front or behind me when for no reason it decides to move one lane to the right, OK fine. But then 30 seconds later it moves back into the Number 1 lane, whats up with that? Under the conditions I am describing it is not trying to pass slow traffic and it is not trying to let someone behind me pass, there is no logical reason for this behavior.

I prefer Mad Max mode but have tried all modes and it behaves the same way in every mode. Clearly the mode is about how quickly it executes a lane change not about how frequently it does it.
Ive noticed lately that it doesn’t want to stay in the left lane. That could be a positive from a faster driver standpoint but also could be just to create more scenarios to test the frequent lane change algorithm.

Also it doesn’t really want to move around a slightly slower car in front to get around them the threshold between my set speed and the car in front speed seems to allow 2-4 mph difference before it wants to try and move.
 

Needsdecaf

Top-Contributor
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
1,250
Location
The Woodlands, TX
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#74
Often I find that it changes lanes for no apparent reason, for example I can be say 20 miles from my exit with light traffic in the Number 1 lane (far left) cruising at 75MPH with no one in front or behind me when for no reason it decides to move one lane to the right,
Ive noticed lately that it doesn’t want to stay in the left lane. That could be a positive from a faster driver standpoint but also could be just to create more scenarios to test the frequent lane change algorithm.
.

That's because the left lane is SUPPOSED to be for passing only.
This.
 

tivoboy

Top-Contributor
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
671
Location
Palo Alto, CA
Country
Country
#75
Well here’s the deal. Here in the Bay Area I drive about 82-85 on 280 and sometimes near that on 101. AP will let it go but lately tried to shift OUT of the left lane into slower cars that it just pukes on and DOESNT make the move or moves over and the quickly has to move back. So it’s not very long range or longer horizon minded
 

nonStopSwagger

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
240
Location
NH
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#76
CR posted a review of NoA. They give it a big thumbs down, compare it to supervising a kid who is driving your car. "Its just easier and less stressful to drive yourself".

I've only really used it on 1 major trip recently, actually found it enjoyable (shout out to @Guy Weathersby for the hand position on the wheel that works). Not sure if my wife would agree.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
13,050
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#77
CR posted a review of NoA. They give it a big thumbs down, compare it to supervising a kid who is driving your car.
Yeah, that's pretty much what it's like.
"Its just easier and less stressful to drive yourself".
And like you, I disagree with this conclusion. After using it a few times, you develop a feel for what situations it handles well, which ones you should supervise, and which ones call on you to just take over. Then it becomes much easier to relax and allow it to handle the majority of highway driving.
 

Long Ranger

Top-Contributor
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
511
Location
Seattle
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#78
I'd say that the review is specifically of the no confirmation lane change feature of NOA, and personally, I agree with their conclusions. I like experimenting with no confirmation lane changes, but I turn it off when I want a stress-free drive.
 

nonStopSwagger

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2018
Messages
240
Location
NH
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#79
Its probably a good idea if Tesla hold off releasing any more "FSD" stuff until the software for HW 3 is running well, and older cars are upgraded. The media will have a field day when summon is released in a few weeks, unless it drives like a human.
 

GDN

Moderator
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2017
Messages
4,330
Location
Far North Dallas, TX
Country
Country
Tesla Owner
Model 3
#80
Its probably a good idea if Tesla hold off releasing any more "FSD" stuff until the software for HW 3 is running well, and older cars are upgraded. The media will have a field day when summon is released in a few weeks, unless it drives like a human.
I tend to agree, but what none of the writers or media will acknowledge is that this is all "Beta" - no one has to use it, it isn't perfect, it has come a lONG way, it is better than anyone else can do, and it is improving.