V9 Feature: No Confirmation Lane Change

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Reliev

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#41
you can toggle your carpool lane off and on I believe its hov no? I could be wrong on this.
 

MelindaV

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#42
Understood that you're supposed to apply light pressure and I do lightly hold the wheel while on NoA. However, I only sporadically apply some form of pressure one way or the other in order to either satisfy or prevent the "Apply Light Pressure..." message. Are others constantly pulling the wheel to one side or the other the ENTIRE time they are driving under NoA? My comment regarding a confirmation still existing in 8.5 even without the turn signal stalk being moved is because each time the car wants to move over, it specifically, at that time, brings up the "Apply light pressure..." prompt in order for you to apply that pressure before it makes the move. This is what I'm seeing with my vehicle, is it not the same in other's experiences?
95% of the time, I do have pressure on the wheel. not to avoid the "apply light pressure" message, but to be able to take over immediately as needed.
 

Unplugged

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#43
I just tested the new Navigate on Autopilot with automatic lane changes: It needs work. The real problem is that less than a mile from the exit, Tesla is demanding that I head to the carpool lane. Of course, you can’t get into the carpool lane because there is no opening, but try telling that to Tesla. A particular exit has two exit lanes and it is necessary to set up for the exit beginning a mile back. But the Autopilot wants to head over to the fast lanes rather than prepare to exit. Tesla needs to dial back the requirement for lane changes to the left when an exit is coming up on the right in a mile. Auto lane change might work better if I didn't have Nav default to carpool.

On another instance, Autopilot correctly navigated the carpool lane interchange with a fly-over to the next freeway. On this ramp, the carpool lane leaves a little room to exit left to the fly-over carpool lane. The center barrier is about three feet from the marked lane. Every time Autopilot makes the lane change it is so abrupt that the driver instinctively grabs the wheel for fear the car will bounce into the barrier. The Model 3 would probably remain in the lane, but who wants to test that out?

Finally, on one of my tests, Nav had me going on the map one way, and the turn-by-turn going another. As the below photo shows, Tesla was confused to say the least. The map had the correct destination. The Autopilot tried to take me the very long way, rather than the shorter direction as on the map. (Sorry about the reflections on the photo.) You can see that the about two miles out of the way. Automatic lane change on Autopilot attempted to take me the longer way.

20190405_115713-jpg.24408
 

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viperd

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#44
Has anyone else been repeatedly annoyed when attempting to cancel a NOA lane change? Since it often trues to change at the wrong time, I often try to cancel, and hitting the blinker stalk then leaves your blinker on. So now you look like some idiot swerving back and forth in the lane with left blinker on (by NOA) then right blinker on (by me cancelling) and sometimes back to left blinker on again as I attempt to cancel out the now-stuck-on right blinker.
Or maybe they've improved this...
Yes, normally when the blinker is on you can tap the turn signal for the direction that is blinking to cancel (i.e. if left blinker is blinking, tap turn stock down to cancel). But if you cancel a lane change, this does not work. You have to turn the blinker on for the other direction. Not sure if this is a bug, but I’d prefer the functionality to be continuous and not have to tap the opposite direction.
 

panpanbebe

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#45
This new update works good but not sure it won’t stay in on lane, every now and then try to switch lane to left and right. Also I was in the traffic on freeway, speed is like 20 it’s really tricky try to switch lane
 

theblindtree

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#46
I've applied the same amount of pressure I've always used with AP, leaving my hand rested on the lower portion of the wheel with just enough resistance. I've not had a problem yet. It shouldn't feel like you have to fight it at all.

Tried it again on my drive home, and other than a couple of instances where I had to manually accelerate due to the car being too timid for the lane change or brake for a very short merge lane, it worked better the second time - and in heavier traffic. I basically try to anticipate where it might have problems, but it's done quite well.
 

RichEV

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#47
And because the prompt comes up everytime the car wants to move over (if you're not already pulling on the wheel almost to the point of turning off NoA), then it sort of becomes a confirmaiton. So my point really was just that this isn't "no-confirm" NoA, its just different type of confirm NoA. Maybe we call it final-confirm NoA haha.
Do you have the vibrate wheel notification turned on? I found that little bit of wheel vibrating at me was easy to respond to with a little bit of "ok I'm Here" pressure. Seemed pretty natural to me.
 

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#48
Drove with it on for 90 seconds in moderate traffic on way home. Had to turn it off. Changed into fast lane, completely, then immediately went back into other lane which I tried to cancel but it went anyway. Then the with music at 70% I realized the blinker was still on after someone flashed me from behind. Will try again next week but not in mad max mode :)
 

LucyferSam

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#49
Tried it out last night, keeping lane change confirm on in one direction because i forgot to turn it off before I left and you can't change it while driving, and without confirm on the way home at ~ 1am, so very light traffic. The overall system is way better than the last time I tried using a couple months ago. An interesting note for those with carpool on having it favor being in the carpool lane far to close to the exit, for me without carpool on it wanted to get into the exit lane way earlier than I would, at about 2.5 miles before the exit in medium traffic, which would have left me going much slower or weaving back into the middle or left lanes multiple times.

Also, while I'm glad it now knows that it should default return to the right lane, it is too aggressive at doing so when passing a semi. NoA put the blinker on which immediately showed the truck it had just passed in red showing it was not safe to change lanes, plus there was another truck ahead that any normal driver would have just stayed in the same lane to also pass as it was going slower yet than the just passed truck - to the point the car tried to slow down as it changed lanes in front of the faster moving truck... I stepped on the accelerator to allow it to finish the lane change without interfering with the truck I'd just passed, and NoA immediately initiated a change back to the left lane to pass the next truck.

It's come a long way in a few months, and is a very impressive system with a few quirks left to work out. I just hope everyone using it understands it well enough to be very careful in this time while the system is still rapidly improving rather than relying on it handling everything...
 

SoFlaModel3

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#51
@SoFlaModel3 Can you comment on your wipers coming on during the video. I'll be honest and say I can't tell if it was raining on not, but your wipers thought so. The wiper action might or might not be something they are working on in the beta releases.
There was a light rain that the camera didn't pick up :)
 

GateFather

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#52
I guess reading before testing was probably the smart thing to do ;)
This makes complete sense to me and I did know it before testing. I’m just surprised by the amount of people out there who seem to be spreading the idea that the car will do the lane changes completely without confirmation while only periodically satisfying the “please apply light pressure” prompt (normally, it’s always been). In reality, the same occasionally applied torque that satisfies the nag either needs to be constant while on NoA OR needs to be satisfied each time the car attempts to change lanes after it initiates the turn signal. I think the disconnect is that many are like me, using NoA with hands on wheel lightly, but not enough to prevent “apply light pressure” nagging. For us, it seems like another nag. This time it’s in the form of a lane change confirmation moved from a signal stalk movement (without “no-confirm” activated) to a wheel movement (with “no-confirm activated)
 

SoFlaModel3

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#53
This makes complete sense to me and I did know it before testing. I’m just surprised by the amount of people out there who seem to be spreading the idea that the car will do the lane changes completely without confirmation while only periodically satisfying the “please apply light pressure” prompt (normally, it’s always been). In reality, the same occasionally applied torque that satisfies the nag either needs to be constant while on NoA OR needs to be satisfied each time the car attempts to change lanes after it initiates the turn signal. I think the disconnect is that many are like me, using NoA with hands on wheel lightly, but not enough to prevent “apply light pressure” nagging. For us, it seems like another nag. This time it’s in the form of a lane change confirmation moved from a signal stalk movement (without “no-confirm” activated) to a wheel movement (with “no-confirm activated)
Yeah I noticed that in my first few days where of course I normally rest my hand on the wheel but the force wasn’t enough for its liking in some cases.
 

MelindaV

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#55
How is NoA supposed to work with “no confirmation”. I find that I don’t have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to “confirm” by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered “no confirmation”?
yes. the car is looking for confirmation you are there with your hands on the wheel paying attention before it makes a lane change. you don't have to 'move' the wheel, but have tension on it.
 

Vin

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#56
How is NoA supposed to work with “no confirmation”. I find that I don’t have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to “confirm” by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered “no confirmation”?
Yes, Elon stated that for now there needs to be a touch of the wheel to confirm the change even with the new "no confirmation" setting until a billion miles helps validate that they can do "no touch" of the wheel. It's just like any FSD or EAP feature rolled out- they will do small steps first then start to open it up once proven safe enough for Tesla and regulators.
I do wish we didn't have to touch the wheel but I understand why they have that as a requirement at the moment.
 

Mike

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#57
How is NoA supposed to work with “no confirmation”. I find that I don’t have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to “confirm” by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered “no confirmation”?
In addition to the other replies: expect a two second lag between application of slight rotational torque on the steering wheel (tells the car you agree with the impending lane change) and commencement of lane change.
 

M3OC Rules

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#58
If you are in no confirmation mode with noa and you do a manual Lane change by turning on the signal does it give up and stop doing Lane changes itself? Seems like it's always timed out for awhile before this release but now I don't think I've seen it do Lane changes after I've done a manual one.
 

Long Ranger

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#59
If you are in no confirmation mode with noa and you do a manual Lane change by turning on the signal does it give up and stop doing Lane changes itself? Seems like it's always timed out for awhile before this release but now I don't think I've seen it do Lane changes after I've done a manual one.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't give up on automatic lane changes after a manual one. This morning I did a manual lane change to move over one lane and then the car moved over one more shortly afterwards. I don't think I'm forgetting any disengagement in between.
 

sduck

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#60
How is NoA supposed to work with “no confirmation”. I find that I don’t have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to “confirm” by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered “no confirmation”?
You are using autopilot when using NOA, and you're supposed to keep your hand on the wheel whenever using autopilot. This is pretty basic stuff, please learn how to use basic autopilot correctly before adding on advanced features. It's really easy to keep your hand on the wheel, with just enough pressure to eliminate the ocassional nag - this is a good skill to learn. And once you've gotten enough hours on autopilot you'll start appreciating the effort, as situations WILL crop up that require immediate attention from you.