V10 Feature: Scheduled Departure - new in 2019.36.1

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MelindaV

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#23
my experience from this morning... set departure time to 8am.

image-from-ios-_1_-jpg.30510


I got the charge started (4:20am) and charge completed (5:36am) notifications. Then as I was getting ready to leave, I opened the Tesla app to see what the interior temperature was - and say it listed it would begin charging again at 7:40am.
It indeed did start charging again at 7:40am and showed as complete at 7:45am. For these 7:40-7:45 start and complete I didn't get phone notifications. So interesting that it topped the battery back off just before my scheduled departure time.

image-from-ios-_2_-jpg.30511
 

fritter63

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#24
So, last night I set my wife's 3 (2018 LR RWD) to "depart at 4 am" (yeah, she's one of those annoyingly dedicated early gym people!).

When I got up, I found it had started charging at 11:30 pm. This is not good as they recently changed the TOU brackets on us and off peak now starts at 12 am. I had it set to charge at 20 amps.

Now, maybe you think "hey, 20 amps isn't fast enough, but it always has been using the "start at" option.

Ie, having it start at 12 am has been getting it charged before 4 am no problem. Typically from 160 miles to 245.

Running another test tonight with it set at 30 amps.

But right now I think they kinda screwed the pooch on this one. Should be able specify TWO times to charge between, and let the car figure out the amps for getting there. That way we can get a nice slow(er) charge and go easy on the battery.
 

garsh

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#25
That way we can get a nice slow(er) charge and go easy on the battery.
FYI, slow AC charging is actually harder on the battery. Degradation occurs during charging, and is proportional to the time spent charging rather than the charging rate.
(This assumes that the charging rate is below 180 amps. Supercharging is different).
Professor Dahn talks about it in the video included in this post:

Turns out charging too slowly is also bad, in general. Here is Professor Dahn's lecture on battery degradation:


Turns out it is bad to too slowly charge Lithium ion due to longer exposure to parasitic side reactions, BUT:

1. Tesla uses a battery chemistry with the least effect of parasitic side reactions.

2. High temperatures make it worse and Tesla has good battery pack thermal management.

3. Tesla probably uses good additives that also reduce the effect especially since Professor Dahn and his students consult directly with Tesla.


https://www.dal.ca/diff/dahn/news.html

"Dahn Lab Begins 5-year Tesla Partnership

June 8, 2016
NSERC, Dalhousie University and Tesla Motors have established the
NSERC/Tesla Canada Industrial Research Chair that Jeff Dahn will hold
from June 8, 2016 to June 7, 2021. It is possible that the Chair will
be renewed in 2021. The goals of the Chair are to develop lithium ion
batteries with longer lifetime, higher energy density and lower cost.
As Dahn says, "Our goal is to do something useful, not publish papers
in Nature and similar journals"."



I'm trying to charge at about c/25; about 3 kw or 13 amps at 240 V. Don't know that it's optimal, but it seemed to be a point where the degradation was significantly less in Dahn's slides.

Slightly higher power, like 16 amps or about 3.8 kW would be better to overcome some losses in the system that basically waste power before it gets into the actual battery cells. And faster charging would have the benefit of further reducing exposure to the remaining parasitic side reactions, balanced against I^2R (and other) losses due to higher current.
 

fritter63

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#26
FYI, slow AC charging is actually harder on the battery. Degradation occurs during charging, and is proportional to the time spent charging rather than the charging rate.
(This assumes that the charging rate is below 180 amps. Supercharging is different).
Professor Dahn talks about it in the video included in this post:
Interesting, thanks @garsh

Confirmed that it started better at 30 amps, but got finished early.

img_8129-jpg.30537
 

pdp1

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#27
I downloaded 36.2.1 yesterday and tried scheduled charging/preconditioning for the first time last night. I had it scheduled to finish at 7:30am. It looks like it finished the charging well before 7:30am, which is fine, but when I came out to the car around 7:40am, it sounded like it was still preconditioning as I heard a loud fan running and the car using about 5A according to the charging screen. First question, is this correct behavior? I thought it would have stopped doing anything and everything by 7:30am. It all stopped when I unplugged the mobile connector from the car BTW.

Second, when I got into the car, it felt like the air conditioning was on. It wasn't a warm morning by any means (high 40s F), but I park in the garage and it felt colder than usual when I got in. I usually have my HVAC set to manual, with the AC off, and the temperature at LO because I don't want the heater to inadvertently turn on, plus, the weather has been really mild around here lately, so no need for heat or AC. Is it because I have the HVAC set to LO that preconditioning wanted to make the inside of my car freezing?

Also, I have a 14-50 outlet I use with the mobile connector in case anyone is wondering.
 

fritter63

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#28
Second, when I got into the car, it felt like the air conditioning was on. It wasn't a warm morning by any means (high 40s F), but I park in the garage and it felt colder than usual when I got in. I usually have my HVAC set to manual, with the AC off, and the temperature at LO because I don't want the heater to inadvertently turn on, plus, the weather has been really mild around here lately, so no need for heat or AC. Is it because I have the HVAC set to LO that preconditioning wanted to make the inside of my car freezing?
Did you forget to set your location as "Not Hawaii" ???? :)
 

Bokonon

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#29
Second, when I got into the car, it felt like the air conditioning was on. It wasn't a warm morning by any means (high 40s F), but I park in the garage and it felt colder than usual when I got in. I usually have my HVAC set to manual, with the AC off, and the temperature at LO because I don't want the heater to inadvertently turn on, plus, the weather has been really mild around here lately, so no need for heat or AC. Is it because I have the HVAC set to LO that preconditioning wanted to make the inside of my car freezing?
Yup. :) I run LO + Manual too and had the same issue.

In retrospect, it makes perfect sense, since there is no separate "precondition temp" setting... But that might be a good feature to add.
 

pdp1

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#30
Yup. :) I run LO + Manual too and had the same issue.

In retrospect, it makes perfect sense, since there is no separate "precondition temp" setting... But that might be a good feature to add.
Thanks for confirming. Maybe I’ll have to turn off hvac completely to stop this from happening? I’ll try tonight
 

evannole

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#31
Does anyone know if the climate scheduling only works if the car is plugged in? It does work at home, where I charge, but while parked at work, where I do not charge, I set a separate schedule to have the car be ready to go around my usual departure time, and have yet to see it kick in as scheduled. I have subsequently double-checked the schedule and the car did indeed save it properly, but for whatever reason it hasn't actually worked.
 
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#32
This new "feature" confuses me too. What if I'm home sick some work day... how long will my car sit in the garage running the AC/Heater waiting for me?
Cabin Preconditioning really needs to be a separate item.

Also, my electricity costs the same no matter what time I use it... so it's useless and actually not preferred for the car to be done charging by 6. As another mentioned earlier, at first I thought this feature would be a great use of charging to near-100 or 100 percent for a trip so that the car doesn't sit too long at that SoC.
 

fritter63

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#33
And... the honeymoon is over on this feature for me.

When my wife got home she plugged in, a half an hour later I looked at my phone and found a notification that it had started charging!

1) used the app to "Stop charging". Shows it stopped
2) immediately the app then shows "Charging".
3) used the app to "Stop charging" again. shows it stopped
4) immediately shows "Charging" again.
5) went out to the car, unable to stop charging by pushing the button (unresponsive) on the screen
6) rebooted the car.
7) comes up showing "charging", unable to stop manually
8) unplugged the car
9) changed setting to "start at 12 am".
10) plugged in the car
11) now correctly waiting to start at midnight.

Also, I note that the charging rate as reset to 32 amps from 30 where I had set it last night. I have noticed my SR+ doing the same, unable to retain the altered rate setting where it used to before.

What's weird also is I can't find the notification from earlier, but I can see that it did the same yesterday, but apparently didn't continue. I have no notification of it stopping. I also don't show it starting again, but it finished at 3ish in the morning.

And so... I'm done with this feature until the new patch level release. It just spent
a half hour charging at peak rates, 48 cents/kWh. How about some QA on that software Elon?

Pictures below:

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img_8133-jpg.30583
 

Bokonon

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#34
This new "feature" confuses me too. What if I'm home sick some work day... how long will my car sit in the garage running the AC/Heater waiting for me?
Based on the way app-initiated preconditioning works, I *think* it will shut off automatically after 4 hours. I havent seen this confirmed yet though.
 

pdp1

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#35
Does anyone know if the climate scheduling only works if the car is plugged in? It does work at home, where I charge, but while parked at work, where I do not charge, I set a separate schedule to have the car be ready to go around my usual departure time, and have yet to see it kick in as scheduled. I have subsequently double-checked the schedule and the car did indeed save it properly, but for whatever reason it hasn't actually worked.
Yes, you need the car plugged in to do “scheduled departure”, which includes preconditioning and climate control.
 

Dogwhistle

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#36
So far this feature has been a total fail. I had to go to work yesterday at 5:45, so set the time for that and plugged it in. The screen showed that the car would be ready at 5:45. I checked TeslaFi about 20 min later to find the car already charging. So I stopped the charging by going outside and unplugging the car and plugging back in. The screen again said it would be ready at 5:45 am. Checked Telafi a bit later, and all looked good, car was sleeping. Went to bed, woke up at 5:15 am to a cold car with a cold battery and the charge state at an unchanged 45%. Manually started charging right away for the 30 min I took to get ready. Sigh, off to work I went, on my 45 mile one-way commute.
 

SimonMatthews

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#38
I am confused abut how this is supposed to work.

I have cheap electricity from 11:00pm to 7:00 am, but I would like my car to be ready to leave at 9:00 am. How do I configure it to optimize use of the cheap electricity?
 

GDN

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#39
I am confused abut how this is supposed to work.

I have cheap electricity from 11:00pm to 7:00 am, but I would like my car to be ready to leave at 9:00 am. How do I configure it to optimize use of the cheap electricity?
In this iteration it is really almost useless. It is a nice attempt to let us know they are working on such a thing, but it needs tweaking. Basically it's two very good ideas wrapped into one horrible implementation. If you use scheduled departure and plug in your charger, it will time your charge to begin as needed to complete the charge by 5:30 AM your local time. It will then proceed to condition the cabin in time for your departure which you choose on the screen. The departure time you choose on the screen has absolutely nothing to do with the charging. I guess maybe if you chose to leave before 5:30 AM it might start the charging even earlier, but if your departure time is after 5:30 AM - they have absolutely nothing to do with each other.