Turning a new Leaf...

Michael Russo

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#1
Expect a lot of articles and reviews over the course of next week... Tuesday is the presentation! Yet, boy, how much do I wish that these 'journalists' would stop once and for all with this 'T≡SLA Model 3 killer' nonsense...

As much as the previous Leaf paved the way on the path to the rEVolution and shall ever be remembered for that, and despite the notable aesthetics & range improvement, there is NO chance the new Leaf will ever kill Model 3!!

http://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/3C8175DC-8E64-11E7-870C-6A0275252EA1
 

JBsC6

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#2
The new leaf looks about as handsome as the Chevy bolt and GM has 133 day supply in inventory. Hardly a tesla 3 killer...

The tesla is a sexy Aston Martin like shape with the leaf and the bolt are Eurocentric hot hatch like door stops...

Not even in the same league as far as desirability from a styling standpoint much less technologically...

I wish Nissan the best but like the bolt they are commodities sold on price not passion..

No comparision
 

littlD

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#4
I'm just glad Nissan is extending my old Leaf lease 5 months till March 2018. I only pay two months. I'll at least test drive the new Leaf, but there's zero chance I'll switch.
 

zkmusa

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#5
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DaGlot

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#7
Having watched the Leaf presentation I was kind of surprised at how tepid the improvements were. My 2012 Leaf is now able to do 60% of the milage it could new 6 years ago - December 2011. (It says three bars down from 12 but that doesn't translate well to actual milage.) Hopefully the new Leaf model continues to improve battery life because I'd be unhappy with the new 150 mile range turning into 75 miles. Connectivity for remote start and cabin preheat was turned off this year, I could pay $150 to get it back on a new network or $400 to update road maps but I just can't see putting money into the car. Hoping Tesla makes the TM3 delivery schedule as Feb 2018 will probably be cold enough to limit common round trips I could make last year without chasing down a charger.

All that said it was great as far as reliability, peppy performance, and very inexpensive other than initial cost - with the SL package it was $39K - for we original line waiters on the East Coast it was full MSRP but that's the cost of the bleeding edge. At least the US Fed rebate gave some relief. Tires and wipers have been my only costs but that could be expected of any EV. Sadly residual value is very low - too bad as the body and interior has held up well for 60K miles.

I'm glad for the improvements and appreciate Nissan pioneering EV's in the early days with Tesla. I could not afford an S or Roadster back then. So Nissan delivered an all electric I could afford. Sorry to see them fall behind - I noticed even they couldn't resist a little jab at Tesla in their presentation - hitting Tesla on relative reliability. It's true the reliability is good as long as you stick to very local driving.

Even with $55K loaded (TM3) vs $31K unloaded (base Leaf) it's a no brainer for me. Compare 300+ miles with a supercharger network vs 150 miles range with an ad-hoc network of CHADEMO and L2 chargers. I don't even need to talk about the other goodies like AP2. I will say Nissan at least lets you pick a color for free, grin...
 

garsh

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#11
With a 150 mile range, It's hardly a Bolt killer
At $7000 less than the Bolt (and given that these are both econobox hatchbacks), I think it actually *is* a Bolt killer (well, lower-priced competitor anyhow).

Neither car has supercharging, so you can't road trip with them. They are just commuter cars. As such, any range that is greater than you would drive in a single day will be enough. Sure, some people will need (or want) the extra mileage, and will be willing to pay that premium. But others would rather save the cash, and might prefer Nissan's new autonomy features.

If the Model 3 didn't exist, I could definitely see myself trading in my current Leaf for one or the other, and that price difference would probably make me lean towards a new Leaf.
 
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garsh

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#13
Big elephant in the room:
The batteries are still air cooled
Lest someone think that's not too bad - the battery pack is sealed.
So by "air cooling", all they do is use a fan to move the air around inside the pack.
At least with the first-generation Leaf. Maybe they added air conditioning to the new packs. I haven't heard any details yet.
 

mig

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#15
My LEAF went from ~90mi range down to 60mi over my 3 year lease. But this was before they had switched to the hot chemistry batteries.

That being said, Nissan hit a good price point here and I think like @garsh said this is a good commuter option for people that just need a car to get from here to there. I didn't pay close attention, but probably many options will be included for $30K that are only in the "premium" upgrade package of the Tesla. A good option for "normal" people that don't need or want a luxury vehicle.
 
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garsh

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#16
Did I read that right @DaGlot , you lost 40% of range in six years?!? Do you think there was any particular treatment to cause that or is that normal for non-Tesla EVs?
I've had my Leaf for almost six years now, and I'm down to about a 55 mile range in good weather. Part of that is due to my non-OEM wheels, but these original Leaf batteries had a terrible issue with degrading. Like @mig, I have the original chemistry - later Leafs came with what we call the "lizard" pack, which is supposed to resist heat degradation better. My Leaf is garage kept both at home and at work, so it never sits out in the sun, so it's probably pampered more (from heat-related battery degradation) than the average Leaf.
 

roguenode

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#20
I've had my Leaf for almost six years now, and I'm down to about a 55 mile range in good weather. Part of that is due to my non-OEM wheels, but these original Leaf batteries had a terrible issue with degrading. Like @mig, I have the original chemistry - later Leafs came with what we call the "lizard" pack, which is supposed to resist heat degradation better. My Leaf is garage kept both at home and at work, so it never sits out in the sun, so it's probably pampered more (from heat-related battery degradation) than the average Leaf.
I've still got a lizard pack Leaf (2015). It seems like they are holding up better, but I would steer clear of any Leaf if I lived where it routinely gets hot. I live at 7000ft elevation in Colorado, so steep mountain roads, bad road surfaces, winds and cold/snow are what takes my range away. Battery holding up well though. 20k miles, full bars and Leafspy reports 97% SOH. The car is kept outside every day.

For those that don't like the looks, the leaf may not be as pretty, but you warm up quickly to the leaf and laugh at those who only see it as an ugly econobox. They don't know what they're missing in their slow throttle response, loud, inefficient, repair-magnet, polluting relics. ;-) A nice side benefit, I haven't been to a gas station other than to get gas for my chainsaw in over two years, no waiting for pumps or getting out in the heat/cold every week or so.

That being said, I've talked to other Leaf owners who also had much nicer cars beforehand and now don't want to ever buy an ICE vehicle again. None that I know of are interested in the new Leaf or the Bolt, they've either already switched to Tesla or are model 3 reservation holders, with the primary reason being the SC network.