The ‘vampire drain’ reference place

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JWardell

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Can folks with TeslaFi give me a hand? Do you see similar numbers?
I see quite a bit of vampire drain, but I'm not sure if TeslaFi's calculations are accurate. I wish they gave a monthly summary or temperature-drain graph, the best I can do is look at each day's page and on the top right see the range lost while parked (not including preconditioning) like so:
screen-shot-2018-12-02-at-6-41-31-pm-png.18471


For the month of November for example, I averaged idle losses of 24.5mi and 5.78kWh each day....that's $1.30 in electricity wasted each day just sitting there.

Is that reasonable? I have pretty much seen the same numbers every month. I used to chalk it up to hot summer days but obviously not once the weather cooled off.
I have some suspicion my computer is burning energy as I've also been stuck at 39.7 for 50 days, but it's no higher than with previous versions.
 

Bigriver

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Can folks with TeslaFi give me a hand? Do you see similar numbers?
In your attached screenshot, it shows that the car is not sleeping at all. I have Teslafi and see 3-5 miles per day, with some of the colder days that it sits outside at work hitting over 10 miles. But nothing like your losses. In Teslafi, go to Settings --> Sleep Modes and adjust some things there that will help it sleep, which reduces the losses.
 

Bigriver

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For the month of November for example, I averaged idle losses of 24.5mi and 5.78kWh each day....that's $1.30 in electricity wasted each day just sitting there.
Just relooked at your screenshot -- 48 miles lost while parked!! That is astronomical. As an example of a "typical" day for my car, it slept 18 hours and lost 1.4 miles during that time, and was in park for 6 hours and lost 3.3 miles. (It was also driven that day -- I'm just rounding.)

Definitely pursue this. It would be interesting to know if Teslafi (or any 3rd party app) could create that kind of loss due to over-polling. Or I've also heard that some cars have an issue with sleeping that Tesla needs to get involved with to get it fixed.
 

JWardell

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In your attached screenshot, it shows that the car is not sleeping at all. I have Teslafi and see 3-5 miles per day, with some of the colder days that it sits outside at work hitting over 10 miles. But nothing like your losses. In Teslafi, go to Settings --> Sleep Modes and adjust some things there that will help it sleep, which reduces the losses.
I've never seen sleep time reported there, and assume like many other items that just doesn't work with Model 3. Sleep settings are enabled and default, I'll play with some others if you are saying I should see time there.

The screen shot was from Thanksgiving which was an exceptionally cold day, and testing to see if you're paying attention. :) It would actually be much worse if I didn't spend several hours driving and charging that day.
 
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jmmdownhil

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I just looked at my TeslaFi account (M3) and every day shows some sleep time (zzzzz), with only insignificant loss while asleep. The ‘ Park’ time shows daily losses of 1-3 miles, max of 6. As previously suggested, check out the “sleep” option under settings.
 

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Sleep settings are enabled and default, I'll play with some others if you are saying I should see time there.
Definitely check your sleep settings... I believe the default settings assume certain behavior that is/was true for Model S and X, but not Model 3. A screenshot of mine are below, and they have worked well for me. The times of day aren't as important as whether the various checkboxes are checked.

You can also try enabling sleep alerts to have TeslaFi send you an email when (a) it is trying to let the car sleep, and (b) when the car does/does not fall asleep during the expected time frame. If you do this, don't be alarmed if your car takes a while to sleep after arriving home for the day, as I get the sense it usually spends an hour or two interacting with the mothership before shutting down. But if your car still never falls asleep despite TeslaFi leaving it alone overnight (deep sleep mode), then it's probably something you should have Tesla look into.

 

JWardell

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Thanks everyone for your feedback. I unchecked the two temperature checkboxes and now teslafi reports my car as sleeping for the first time!
So that raises two questions:
If you try to get in your car while it is asleep, I assume it won't unlock the doors as you walk up and you have to wait a minute...true?
And how to people without Teslafi get their cars to sleep then?
 

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If you try to get in your car while it is asleep, I assume it won't unlock the doors as you walk up and you have to wait a minute...true?
And how to people without Teslafi get their cars to sleep then?
I don't think TeslaFi is CAUSING the car to sleep... I think it's trying to not poll the car for data when it is sleeping, so not to wake it.

Car sleeps at home and at work. Phone-as-a-Key (iPhone X) always works -- except for the few times it didn't -- once each day for the first few days after the update to 2018.44.2.

One of those days the phone didn't work as a key even after I had used TeslaFi to turn on my car's heater -- so the car SHOULD have been awake, i'd assume.

My phone has been working fine since those 3 days/times.
 

Bokonon

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If you try to get in your car while it is asleep, I assume it won't unlock the doors as you walk up and you have to wait a minute...true?
Assuming your phone key works well, it *should* unlock the doors as soon as you press the door handle in, no waiting involved. Rarely (< 5% of the time), when I push in a door handle, the car will be in a deeper sleep, and I'll hear the clunk-clunk of the battery contactors but the car won't unlock immediately. In these cases, it usually takes about 1-2 more seconds (and sometimes pressing the door handle in a second time) to unlock and open the door.

The trunk button always seems to respond immediately, FWIW.

And how to people without Teslafi get their cars to sleep then?
Some have suggested pouring a glass of warm milk into the charge port will do the trick, but I do not personally recommend this practice. :)

No, like @MarkB mentioned above, the car just falls asleep on its own when parked and finished with any post-drive computation/communication with Tesla's servers. It isn't that TeslaFi is "putting" a car to sleep, it's "allowing" the car to sleep by not polling it every minute, which will keep its on-board systems awake.
 

webdriverguy

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I hope tesla will reduce this vampire drain (with my car parked outside in winter i am losing 2%) and hopefully with more R&D and as the battery tech improves this will be less of a issue as EVs go mainstream in the next 3-5 years.
 

garsh

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I hope tesla will reduce this vampire drain (with my car parked outside in winter i am losing 2%) and hopefully with more R&D and as the battery tech improves this will be less of a issue as EVs go mainstream in the next 3-5 years.
Just to be clear, the cause of the drain is all of the systems that remain running in a Tesla when it's parked. Better battery tech won't help this issue.

One way to possibly solve this would be to have an additional computer based on a low-power cell phone CPU that can control all systems that must remain running while the car is asleep. But that assumes that the CPU is the largest draw of power in this state, and that might not be the case. There are also wifi and LTE receivers and transmitters that must remain active in order to download updates and respond to the phone app at a moment's notice. And there are probably other systems as well that I can't think of. Still, using "first principles" thinking, it should theoretically be possible to get the vampire drain down to the level of an active mobile phone. That wouldn't even be noticeable as drain on the car's huge battery. It would take a good bit of engineering work to design a system where control of the system busses can be handed off between the normal CPU and a low-power CPU, but the parts costs shouldn't be affected much.
 

webdriverguy

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@garsh yeah agreed but if they can push some improvements in battery tech keeping the size of the pack the same and say for e.g the current M3 can so 410 miles on a single charge then may be people wont be that worried about the range loss? I cant image dealing with a range loss of 2% every day for a standard range battery that would be little stressful IMO.

Also in addition to the low-power CPU similar to what apple does why not give users the ability to just power off the car from the app when they are at home? may be that will reduce some of the vampire drain?
 

Wooloomooloo

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It took me a few posts to realize this was a thread from Nov 2017...

Anyway, I am someone who cannot plug in at home currently, I live in a New York Apt building with no charging access, so when I first got my M3 I was obsessed with vampire drain and checked it every few hours. It's kind of ironic that the more people do to monitor this, the more drain you suffer from. In the early days people were congratulating themselves for installing TeslaFi to monitor the mysterious drain, and yet for many it was actually TeslaFi that was causing the issue. The fact that people still think TeslaFi's new features "put the car to sleep" rather than just not messing with the car's built-in energy conservation features, is testament to how you can create more problems for yourself by being overly-vigilant.

The car is pretty resilient to what it considers normal use, and it's also worth noting that most of the major 'drain' occurs in the first 24 hours of parking, which is a result of the battery cooling significantly, and the car taking time to go into a deep sleep and communicating with Tesla. It's also worth noting (in my experience this is true at least) that the car will often report a lower charge than it really has when the battery is very cold. I've had times when I've gained 1 - 2% of battery charge in the first 5 minutes of driving, despite Whr-useage in the 800's when first setting off.

I rarely use my car during the week, so on Sunday evening I'll often park up with anywhere between 60 and 85% charge (last night I came home with 87% charge) and when I'm ready to head off for a weekend retreat on Friday or Saturday, it's usually lost 3 - 4 % for the week over 5 days.

I would give two pieces of advice to new owners:

1) Change the settings to display state of charge in per-cent (%) rather than range. Psychologically 'range' messes with you as it's far too dynamic, making you paranoid when you see your car lose 2 or 3 miles of range before you've even gone half a mile to the highway. This isn't unique to EV's - my Golf GTI would show 'range' anywhere from 480 miles to 270 miles on a full tank, depending on how I'd driven the last 10 miles.

2) Let the car's energy management systems do what they're supposed to do - i.e. don't install 3rd party apps. I know that's an unpopular statement, but battery technology by its very nature is imprecise and you'll likely spend far too much time fretting about why you lost an extra 3 watt-hours last night, compared to the prior night. I'm also a geek and would love to know every last detail, but I also know that will make me want to micro-manage the car, and it will cause me anxiety. I'm not arrogant enough to think I know better than Tesla's engineers.
 

slasher016

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I just got back from being out of the country for 11 days. I had 189 miles of range when I left. I set to the charge level to 50% and plugged it in. When I returned it had 176 miles of range. So I lost 13 miles of range over 11 days. Of course since it was plugged in anything it needed to do it did it from the wall, but still pretty darn happy with that level of range loss.
 

Mike

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It took me a few posts to realize this was a thread from Nov 2017...

Anyway, I am someone who cannot plug in at home currently, I live in a New York Apt building with no charging access, so when I first got my M3 I was obsessed with vampire drain and checked it every few hours. It's kind of ironic that the more people do to monitor this, the more drain you suffer from. In the early days people were congratulating themselves for installing TeslaFi to monitor the mysterious drain, and yet for many it was actually TeslaFi that was causing the issue. The fact that people still think TeslaFi's new features "put the car to sleep" rather than just not messing with the car's built-in energy conservation features, is testament to how you can create more problems for yourself by being overly-vigilant.

The car is pretty resilient to what it considers normal use, and it's also worth noting that most of the major 'drain' occurs in the first 24 hours of parking, which is a result of the battery cooling significantly, and the car taking time to go into a deep sleep and communicating with Tesla. It's also worth noting (in my experience this is true at least) that the car will often report a lower charge than it really has when the battery is very cold. I've had times when I've gained 1 - 2% of battery charge in the first 5 minutes of driving, despite Whr-useage in the 800's when first setting off.

I rarely use my car during the week, so on Sunday evening I'll often park up with anywhere between 60 and 85% charge (last night I came home with 87% charge) and when I'm ready to head off for a weekend retreat on Friday or Saturday, it's usually lost 3 - 4 % for the week over 5 days.

I would give two pieces of advice to new owners:

1) Change the settings to display state of charge in per-cent (%) rather than range. Psychologically 'range' messes with you as it's far too dynamic, making you paranoid when you see your car lose 2 or 3 miles of range before you've even gone half a mile to the highway. This isn't unique to EV's - my Golf GTI would show 'range' anywhere from 480 miles to 270 miles on a full tank, depending on how I'd driven the last 10 miles.

2) Let the car's energy management systems do what they're supposed to do - i.e. don't install 3rd party apps. I know that's an unpopular statement, but battery technology by its very nature is imprecise and you'll likely spend far too much time fretting about why you lost an extra 3 watt-hours last night, compared to the prior night. I'm also a geek and would love to know every last detail, but I also know that will make me want to micro-manage the car, and it will cause me anxiety. I'm not arrogant enough to think I know better than Tesla's engineers.
Thank you for bringing some perspective to all of this.

Your experience of parking outside and losing about 1% a day is all I need to know when it comes time to park my car at an airport for two weeks in January.
 

Mike

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I just got back from being out of the country for 11 days. I had 189 miles of range when I left. I set to the charge level to 50% and plugged it in. When I returned it had 176 miles of range. So I lost 13 miles of range over 11 days. Of course since it was plugged in anything it needed to do it did it from the wall, but still pretty darn happy with that level of range loss.
Just to confirm I have interpreted your numbers correctly (all figures rounded to nearest whole number):

You had 189 miles of range when you parked which should equal 61% (189/310).

You set your charge level at 50% which should equal 155 miles of range (310 × 0.5).

11 days later, you have 176 miles of range left which should equal 57% (176/310).

-----------------

Your desired charge level was below all of these figures.

My limited understanding of the system includes it will not draw from shore power unless your battery is below your desired charge level.

Your examples tells me you lost 4% (13/310) over 11 days.

Can someone double check my math on this?

If what @slasher016 has indicated holds true, I'd say there is little vampire drain to worry about ........if you leave the car asleep.

Unless, of course, being plugged in did have an effect.
 

Bigriver

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Your experience of parking outside and losing about 1% a day is all I need to know when it comes time to park my car at an airport for two weeks in January.
The 3 most important things in real estate are location, location, location. I believe the 3 most important things about Tesla vampire drain are temperature, temperature, temperature. Be careful about applying losses people are reporting now to what you will get in the dead of winter in Canada.
 

slasher016

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Just to confirm I have interpreted your numbers correctly (all figures rounded to nearest whole number):

You had 189 miles of range when you parked which should equal 61% (189/310).

You set your charge level at 50% which should equal 155 miles of range (310 × 0.5).

11 days later, you have 176 miles of range left which should equal 57% (176/310).

-----------------

Your desired charge level was below all of these figures.

My limited understanding of the system includes it will not draw from shore power unless your battery is below your desired charge level.

Your examples tells me you lost 4% (13/310) over 11 days.

Can someone double check my math on this?

If what @slasher016 has indicated holds true, I'd say there is little vampire drain to worry about ........if you leave the car asleep.

Unless, of course, being plugged in did have an effect.
Correct. It was parked in my garage in Cincinnati area. So it was between high teens to 50 degrees during that time. I also never checked the status via the app, so I never woke the car up.
 

Bigriver

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I would give two pieces of advice to new owners:
1) Change the settings to display state of charge in per-cent (%) rather than range.
2) Let the car's energy management systems do what they're supposed to do - i.e. don't install 3rd party apps.
I whole-heatedly agree with the first point, as the SOC display is more like a gas gauge and not a range predictor. I’ve recently done this, and yes, much more psychologically healthy for it.
On the 3rd party apps, I totally understand there is a downside to them and they are not for everyone, but for me, they totally enhance my Tesla experience and satisfy a very intense nerd itch. I have learned a lot about how Tesla’s respond to different situations from my Teslafi data, data which easily collects on its own and takes very limited time for me to peruse and learn from. It provides helpful long term history of when I went on certain trips. And it can actually reduce vampire drain as I can check it to see what my state of charge is (or was the last time the car was awake) while a similar check to the Tesla app would wake it up.