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JeffC

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Good post Jeff, although the only correction I'd make is that Tesla has NOT said that the non-PUP Performance cars have the same brakes as LR / AWD / etc, the exact wording of their response is that they have the same brakes as regular Dual...



So we know the configuration and caliper type, but do not yet know what
size the Dual brakes are (not that I've made a big deal about that or anything :))
Good eye. I missed the Dual motor there (read it as base (LR/SR), probably). Updating my original post accordingly. It does imply that Dual and non PUO performance gets different brakes from LR/SR.

We still lack information about the PUO actual brake sizes and whether they would fit 18 inch wheels such as the Aeros or aftermarket.
 

JeffC

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I think @JeffC just talked me into dropping the PUO.
  • I don't want a spoiler
  • I don't care what my pedals look like
  • I do really like the brake upgrade. But honestly, I don't need it. And it sounds like it would prevent me from running snow tires on 18" wheels in the winter.
  • I'd much rather have a staggered 18" or 19" setup than the square-set 20" wheels for summer.
Plus, if I get it with the 18s, then that gives me a great excuse to plan a road trip to meet @Mad Hungarian to help me pick out a new set of wheels for my ride. :cool:
I'm officially on the fence.

I like those upgraded brakes. I don't need them, but I like them.

But I also liked the idea of using Aeros for winter tires. I need conclusive evidence that the Aeros won't fit with the upgraded brakes.
I too am on the fence, thus this post, which is really asking for help deciding.

20 inch wheels, aside from bragging rights, may be the least desirable. 18s are considered optimal for racing since they minimize wheel weight. Lighter is also better for the street, in general, since it makes the wheels do less work on every extension. (I do note that Sasha says the heaver tires that go with lighter wheels does have an effect. He got Aero like weight with 19 inch light racing wheels and wider tires. I'm certain they were lighter than the factory 20s though.)

I'd like to run staggered due to the high rear wheel torque of Peformance, and I'd like Aeros with all season tires for long road trips. (Really the stock Aero wheels and tires for maximum efficiency).

But it's unknown whether the 18s will fit with the PUO brakes.

Sasha's 365 mm brake upgrade is known to not fit with 18s.

Hi @Sasha Anis , could you make a 355 mm rotor kit that would fit the Aeros? That might be a nice solution, especially if the factory upgraded rotors of PUO does not fit the 18s. (Again, the latter is unknown at present.)

And yes, choosing aftermarket wheels is part of the fun, to give some individual personality to the cars, along with possible performance upgrades from different widths and tires.
 
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JeffC

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@garsh,

I’ve been battling this as well. I’m in for Sasha’s Sport Coilovers and camber and toe arm setup and more than likely the upgraded brake package from MPP after he retunes for P3D. Right now I’ve got the PUO as well on config/order. May just run that until Shasta’s kit is out. Decisions.

Ski
Same here. I'm leaning towards PUO if the Aeros may fit the upgraded brakes. Still too many unknowns.

The coilovers are likely a better solution than factory Performance suspension, and they're very adjustable.

At some point the configuration will be frozen for each of us as build nears.
 

MountainPass

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I too am on the fence, thus this post, which is really asking for help deciding.

20 inch wheels, aside from bragging rights, may be the least desirable. 18s are considered optimal for racing since they minimize wheel weight. Lighter is also better for the street, in general, since it makes the wheels do less work on every extension. (I do note that Sasha says the heaver tires that go with lighter wheels does have an effect. He got Aero like weight with 19 inch light racing wheels and wider tires. I'm certain they were lighter than the factory 20s though.)

I'd like to run staggered due to the high rear wheel torque of Peformance, and I'd like Aeros with all season tires for long road trips. (Really the stock Aero wheels and tires for maximum efficiency).

But it's unknown whether the 18s will fit with the PUO brakes.

Sasha's 365 mm brake upgrade is known to not fit with 18s.

Hi @Sasha Anis , could you make a 355 mm rotor kit that would fit the Aeros? That might be a nice solution, especially if the factory upgraded rotors of PUO does not fit the 18s. (Again, the latter is unknown at present.)

And yes, choosing aftermarket wheels is part of the fun, to give some individual personality to the cars, along with possible performance upgrades from different widths and tires.

Our Big Brake Kit will not fit in 18" wheels because the caliper has to be moved outwards to clear the rotor. We have been getting a lot of inquiries about a 2 piece rotor setup that fits in the 18". If we can get a pre-order group together of at least 10 orders, we will produce them!

If you are serious, send us an email and we will make it happen

info@mountainpassperformance.com
 
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I too am on the fence, thus this post, which is really asking for help deciding.

20 inch wheels, aside from bragging rights, may be the least desirable. 18s are considered optimal for racing since they minimize wheel weight. Lighter is also better for the street, in general, since it makes the wheels do less work on every extension. (I do note that Sasha says the heaver tires that go with lighter wheels does have an effect. He got Aero like weight with 19 inch light racing wheels and wider tires. I'm certain they were lighter than the factory 20s though.)

I'd like to run staggered due to the high rear wheel torque of Peformance, and I'd like Aeros with all season tires for long road trips. (Really the stock Aero wheels and tires for maximum efficiency).

But it's unknown whether the 18s will fit with the PUO brakes.

Sasha's 365 mm brake upgrade is known to not fit with 18s.

Hi @Sasha Anis , could you make a 355 mm rotor kit that would fit the Aeros? That might be a nice solution, especially if the factory upgraded rotors of PUO does not fit the 18s. (Again, the latter is unknown at present.)

And yes, choosing aftermarket wheels is part of the fun, to give some individual personality to the cars, along with possible performance upgrades from different widths and tires.

Our Big Brake Kit will not fit in 18" wheels because the caliper has to be moved outwards to clear the rotor. We have been getting a lot of inquiries about a 2 piece rotor setup that fits in the 18". If we can get a pre-order group together of at least 10 orders, we will produce them!

If you are serious, send us an email and we will make it happen

info@mountainpassperformance.com

Wow that's what I call service! Lets see how quickly these racers will act.
 

Mad Hungarian

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Our Big Brake Kit will not fit in 18" wheels because the caliper has to be moved outwards to clear the rotor. We have been getting a lot of inquiries about a 2 piece rotor setup that fits in the 18". If we can get a pre-order group together of at least 10 orders, we will produce them!

If you are serious, send us an email and we will make it happen

info@mountainpassperformance.com
I have a feeling you won't have an issue hitting 10 orders.
And you'll be positively swamped with them if the Dual and base Performance brakes wind up being the same as RWD.
 

JeffC

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Our Big Brake Kit will not fit in 18" wheels because the caliper has to be moved outwards to clear the rotor. We have been getting a lot of inquiries about a 2 piece rotor setup that fits in the 18". If we can get a pre-order group together of at least 10 orders, we will produce them!

If you are serious, send us an email and we will make it happen

info@mountainpassperformance.com
Still want to confirm the PUO larger rotor/caliper won't fit the 18s, but if not, will probably order for use with Aeros. Assume it would be 355 mm rotor.
 

ppower

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Here it is!

https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-page-mill-320mm-rotor/

Please, let us know if there is anything else you want. We weren't sure about the demand for this, but the community let us know!

Have a great weekend!

What would have been the biggest you could have offered and still fit the 18's? From pictures of the PU brakes, it looks like the rears are tighter tolerances than the front. That said, it makes sense to have the same 320mm that can be offered for F&R.
 

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What would have been the biggest you could have offered and still fit the 18's? From pictures of the PU brakes, it looks like the rears are tighter tolerances than the front. That said, it makes sense to have the same 320mm that can be offered for F&R.

Check out this picture
Bracket-01.png

This bracket needs to be big enough to bolt to the knuckle and also to the caliper, we can't push the caliper out any less without having an unsafe amount of material between the knuckle mounting bolt and the caliper. Hopefully I explained it ok. Consider our Page Mill kit the minimum BBK size, we could make even bigger, but when you start running huge wheels to fit bigger brakes the performance tradeoff stops making sense.
 
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JeffC

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TLDR: I measured the front Performance Upgrade Option front rotor diameter at 355 mm (which is also a highly standard size, including from Brembo), and the rear at 332 mm. The front caliper to wheel clearance is large enough to probably fit an 18 inch wheel, but perhaps ironically the rear caliper to wheel clearance may not fit an 18. However the barrel inner diameter of different wheels can vary by construction, so some 18s may fit while others may not.

Pictures, measurements, and analysis below:



Measuring PUO wheels and brakes:



Above 20 inch wheel with red PUO caliper.

Above: 20 inch wheel barrel inner diameter near plane of rotor I measured as 469 mm. Made multiple measurements. Since the measuring tape has a tab at 0, I started all measurements at the 10 cm = 100 mm line, so all measurements on tape should have 100 mm subtracted.


Above: Measurement set up for rotor outer diameter. (I made my measurement caliper from some Aluminum bar stock, wing nuts, and plastic shelf holders from hardware store. It worked adequately and was reasonably repeatable. I made the caliper as perpendicular to the wheels/rotors/calipers, etc., as possible when measuring and gently moved the measuring tips to just clear the thing under measurement.)

Above: PUO front rotor diameter 355 mm

Above: PUO rear rotor diameter 332 to 333 mm. (332 appears to be a standard Brembo diameter, so it could be 332.)

Above: Front caliper to wheel clearance at about 29 mm is more than an inch and therefore would probably fit 18 inch wheel. (Note that the other measurement tip was lined up with the "10" mark, but due to parallax, it looks like it doesn't. I moved the camera to have near zero parallax on the (other) measurement side.)

Above: However rear caliper to wheel clearance was less than 25 mm and therefore may not clear an 18 inch wheel. (Note that the other measurement tip was lined up with the "10" mark, but due to parallax, it looks like it doesn't. I moved the camera to have near zero parallax on the (other) measurement side.)



Analysis:


I was not able to measure the Aero wheel barrel inner diameter, but the Enkei Racing PF01 in 18 inch x 8.5 was reported as 433 mm barrel inner diameter by Tire Rack. 469 mm for 20 inch less 24 mm (x 2 for diameter) clearance of rear caliper to wheel would be an effective outer diameter to the caliper of 421 mm, which would be 11 mm smaller than the 433 and would fit at back. 469 less 29 mm (x 2 for diameter) front caliper clearance would be 411 mm, which would also be significantly smaller than 433 and would fit front.

If the Aero has a similar inner diameter, then it would fit the PUO brakes. However if the Aero inner diameter is significantly smaller, it may not fit. Still need a measurement.

Feedback from @Mad Hungarian would be welcomed, along with measurements of the Aero inner diameter from anyone.



Measuring LR 19 inch wheels and standard brakes:


Went inside and measured 19 inch wheels, rotors, caliper on Long Range Model 3.

Factory 19

19 inch wheel barrel inner diameter 444 mm. That would be about 25 mm smaller than the barrel inner diameter of the 20 inch wheel, which seems correct.

Rear rotor diameter ~331 mm (again, could be 332 mm, a standard Brembo size)

(Did not measure front rotor, believed to be 320 mm.)

Rear caliper to 19 inch wheel clearance about 26 to 27 mm; might actually clear some 17 inch wheels.


Since the 19 inch wheel's 444 mm barrel inner diameter is much larger than the PUO caliper effective outer diameters of 421 and 411 mm, the 19 inch wheel should fit PUO brakes.



@Sasha Anis May I ask you to please measure the radius to the outside of the caliper of the 365 mm rotor upgrade so I can confirm it won't fit the 18 inch Enkei barrel inner diameter of 433 mm?
 
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ppower

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Sorry, but at this point, it looks like you’re trying to fit a square into a circle. So close, but I think it’s time to give up on using 18’s as u fortunate as that is. The good news is that big wheels aren’t being used for the sake of looking big.
 

JeffC

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Sorry, but at this point, it looks like you’re trying to fit a square into a circle. So close, but I think it’s time to give up on using 18’s as u fortunate as that is. The good news is that big wheels aren’t being used for the sake of looking big.
You may be right. There seems to be no easy way to fit upgraded brakes with some 18s, aside from Sasha's 320 mm rotors.
 
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Alighieri256

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You may be right. There seems to be no easy way to fit upgraded brakes with the 18s, aside from Sasha's 320 mm rotors.

I edited my post above quite a bit and will probably not get PUO, but will get Sasha's 365 mm rotor upgrade for use with 19 inch racing wheels. The PUO rear calipers may not fit even 19s.
469 - (2 * 24) = 421. A 444 barrel diameter should fit.

24mm clearance from rim to caliper is delta R, but your math is treating it as delta D.
 

JeffC

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469 - (2 * 24) = 421. A 444 barrel diameter should fit.

24mm clearance from rim to caliper is delta R, but your math is treating it as delta D.
Thanks much for the correction. You're right of course. I'm editing my post again. :)

As a check, a 19 inch wheel would only be about a half inch smaller in radius than 20 inch, not a whole inch. Since the tightest clearance is just under an inch, a half inch smaller wheel such as the factory 19 would fit.

However an 18 might not fit, depending on its construction. The Enkei 18 I mention above would fit.
 
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ppower

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Where have you been able to look up inner barrel diameters? If the PF01 doesn’t work out, the RPF1 19” weighs less than the PF01 18”. Heck, that’s where some extra light RPF1 would be awesome. Only 17lbs each.
 

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@Sasha Anis, will the stock 18s work with your 365mm rotors if modest wheel spacers are used? I ask because you mentioned that the kit pushes the calipers outward. I saw someone using 10 mm spacers in front, and 20 mm rear with the stock wheels.
 

JeffC

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Where have you been able to look up inner barrel diameters? If the PF01 doesn’t work out, the RPF1 19” weighs less than the PF01 18”. Heck, that’s where some extra light RPF1 would be awesome. Only 17lbs each.
Thanks much! I emailed Tire Rack for the PF01 diameter. Will ask them about some more wheels that are 18 x 9 since @Mad Hungarian thought 255/40-18s would fit 18x9 at front.
 

JeffC

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@Sasha Anis, will the stock 18s work with your 365mm rotors if modest wheel spacers are used? I ask because you mentioned that the kit pushes the calipers outward. I saw someone using 10 mm spacers in front, and 20 mm rear with the stock wheels.
Based on my measurements, I'd expect it might be the radial distance of the caliper that won't clear the Aeros, not the axial distance. Hopefully Sasha will chime in.