That $5k Performance Upgrade option, Part Deux

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#1
(Some of this has been mentioned separately in other threads, but new information about the $5k Performance Upgrade option (gonna call it PUO here) available only with the Performance version of Model 3 helps clarify and consolidate some thoughts about it.)

I currently have the $5k Performance Upgrade option selected on my Silver Performance Model 3 configuration, but ultimately I probably want to upgrade the springs and dampers to @Sasha Anis 's MPP KW coilover kit: https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model-3-sports-coilovers/ , and I'm having some difficulty deciding between getting PUO or not. Most of the things inlcluded in PUO can be upgraded with aftermarket parts instead. PUO includes larger wheels, small spoiler, metal pedal covers, and performance brakes. Wheels are 20 inch with the excellent street performance Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tire.

My goal is having excellent street performance, plus adjustment range to possibly take the car to a race track. It's very clear from Sasha's video that the coilovers make a huge improvement in track performance, though larger brakes, lighter wheels and near race tires are also needed. To those not familiar with modifying cars, these kinds of upgrades very much help a well-engineered car reach more of its full performance potential. It's very much the reason for AMG Mercedes, BMW M cars, aftermarket tuners, etc. (AMG was an aftermarket firm originally; Mercedes bought them and made them the in-house performance tuner. BMW M was always the in-house tuner of performance versions.)


All Teslas are very well engineered mechanically, electrically, chemically and software/neural-network-ly ;), but Model 3 has the best potential for performance tuning since it's so much lighter than Model S. Due to its lighter weight and smaller size, Model 3 is much more efficient on the street, but also on the race track, where Model S tends to overheat its motor or battery pack after a few laps. Model 3 has already endured full track sessions with little difficulty except for fried stock brake pads. Starting from an excellent mechanical design, Model 3 has major improvement potential from these modifications.

My main attraction in Sasha's coilover kit is lower ride height than factory Performance option, wide range of damping (rebound) adjustment, from nearly factory soft to harder than needed for race track, plus ride height adjustment via the coilovers. That should make for relatively comfortable street driving and also good race track performance.

While the 1cm lower factory Performance suspension likely is a performance-biased improvement over the LR/SR/AWD, and should work well on real-world bumpy roads and potholes due to keeping most of the highish ride height abd retaining most of the LR/SR/AWD wheel travel, ultimate performance arguably needs coilovers.

(More wheel travel generally allows a suspension to better handle bumps, potholes, etc. Race tracks are generally sooth; real roads not. Taller ride height and resulting longer wheel travel is an advantage on the street. Lower, stiffer cars are generally an advantage on the track. As in everything engineering, all design decisions are a tradeoff.)

Judging by the video, main thing lacking from Model 3 for the race track now seems to be camber adjustment at the front. Kind of surprised that lowering the car 40mm did not result in enough camber gain at the front, but I suppose someone will make camber plates eventually. (Sasha hinted that he's thinking about that too.) (If lowering did not increase camber enough, then camber plates would not exist, so apparently more camber is needed for most street cars taken to a race track.)

(Camber is the tilt of the wheel from the lateral outside towards the center of the car. More camber makes the outside edges of the wheels tilt up higher than the insides, which helps them stick better in turns, at least for cars with a lot of suspension travel and relatively short suspension arms, i.e., normal production road cars. Reference: Carroll Smith: Tune to Win book series. Open wheel formula race cars have long suspension arms and less wheel travel and need less camber.)

Talk of camber also brings up suitability to street use and the compromises for track use. Ideally one would like minimal camber on the street to reduce tire wear and quite a bit of camber on the track for better grip in turns. Camber plates do make it possible to adjust that for the track, just as coilovers allow reducing ride height for the track, along with adjustable dampers for damping. But it's somewhat of a hassle to change those and need to realign the suspension each time.

The other major question the Tesla community had was brakes. Tesla said on twitter that without PUO, Performance Model 3 gets the same brakes as base dual motor (AWD). (And they did not specify exactly what those are, but it implies AWD and non PUO Performance gets different brakes than Long Range / Standard Range.) PUO includes larger rotors with iron discs and probably Aluminum hats, apparently both at front and back. Supplier for PUO brakes is Brembo, but Brembo may also supply the regular brakes.

It's worth repeating again here that brake upgrades will generally only be relevant on a race track. Normal street driving does not heat up the brakes, pads or fluid enough to get brake fade. Only repeated high power braking from high speeds can do that, and it's really only possible to do that safely or legally on a race track. Unless you're going on a race track, you likely don't need nor would benefit from larger brake rotors, etc.

Sasha also sells a front brake upgrade that he reported works very well on the race track with upgraded pads and fluid, but with the stock brake caliper, which is special in that it has low drag for better EV efficiency. His 365 mm rotor does not fit with 18 inch wheels, so he used 19s on the track and added a machined adapter plate to attach the caliper when used with the larger rotor.

Tesla has still not made it clear whether the PUO brakes would fit the 18 inch Aero wheels. I hope to measure all when Performance Model 3 comes to stores. If the PUO brakes will fit Aeros, then that would be a reason to get PUO so its upgraded brakes could be used with Aeros for their greater efficiency on long road trips. If not, then I could skip PUO and go directly to Sasha's brakes.

At some point Tesla quoted the Performance brakes as 355 mm, but they have taken down that reference, so it may have changed. 355 mm probably fit inside most 18 inch wheels, but it's borderline.

Feedback wanted.

I'm still tempted to get PUO to learn the factory's tuning, even if I end up changing out springs/dampers, wheels/tires later. And I would like to get the Aeros, but only if PUO brakes fit. How to solve this?

PUO also includes a small spoiler that may actually improve high speed stability enough to allow the 155 MPH top speed upgrade. This is of minor interest to me. It's almost impossible to try top speed here legally (except for legal open road races, salt flats, etc.).

PUO includes metal pedal (covers). Nice, but not important to me.


For people who are normal street drivers and not performance oriented, none of the above will likely be relevant. The above is for people who like to push their cars towards the limits of performance, hopefully on a race track. In this way we celebrate more of what the cars can do, and likely do very well in the case of Model 3. Again, some of this may not be legal to do on the street, and I will never advocate breaking any laws. Please explore the limits safely on a race track, autocross course, etc.

Please do go to a performance driving school or racing school, even if you never intend to race, in order to learn how to drive safely at the limits, for example which can come up in an emergency on the street. Unfortunately millions of people die annually in car crashes, due at least in part to ignorance about this.

Safety systems like traction control, ABS, seat belts, air bags, etc., can and do save lives, but they can't defeat the laws of physics. The driver is by far the most important part of the equation.

Also, racing, or even high performance driving at track days with no competition, is great fun.


P.S. Thanks to mods for moving this thread to Tech Talk forum.
 
Last edited:

JustTheTip

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
284
Location
Chicago
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#3
The coilovers, as of now, won’t necessarily work right on the AWD Performance upgrade model given the motor up front. They’ll have to have a separate offering since spring rates and valving will no doubt have to be adjusted after more testing. I plan to go this route as well, eventually, but it will take some time for Sasha to get his hands on a P+.

As for the front rotor upgrade, that should be good. I plan on that eventually as well.
 

PandaM3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
302
Location
Santa Ana, California
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#4
Before I figured go aftermarket.

However after seeing a YouTube of close up on a performance optioned Model 3, it appears it includes upgraded rotors and calipers for both front and back. The calipers look to be 6 piston at least and look as beefy as cayenne or amg S class calipers... imho that alone is worth the $5k. The rotors are one piece however they are a floating design... so that can be upgraded to a multipiece rotor.


Here’s what Panamera calipers look like in comparison.

http://www.loebermotors.com/blog/porsche-panamera-brakes-guide/
 

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#5
The coilovers, as of now, won’t necessarily work right on the AWD Performance upgrade model given the motor up front. They’ll have to have a separate offering since spring rates and valving will no doubt have to be adjusted after more testing. I plan to go this route as well, eventually, but it will take some time for Sasha to get his hands on a P+.

As for the front rotor upgrade, that should be good. I plan on that eventually as well.
Agree, the front compression damping and spring rate may need to be higher for the greater front mass of any Dual Motor car, including Performance. So you're right, that may be a different kit.

Sasha's brake kit may not be needed if PUO is ordered since it comes with at least larger front brakes
 

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#6
Before I figured go aftermarket.

However after seeing a YouTube of close up on a performance optioned Model 3, it appears it includes upgraded rotors and calipers for both front and back. The calipers look to be 6 piston at least and look as beefy as cayenne or amg S class calipers... imho that alone is worth the $5k. The rotors are one piece however they are a floating design... so that can be upgraded to a multipiece rotor.

Yes, Performance Model 3 with PUO gets different brakes. Apparently P without PUO does not. Here's what Tesla tweeted about the brakes, in an effort to try to clarify some of the uncertainty:
(Somewhat confusingly PUP above appears to refer to PUO and not Premium Upgrade Package which PUP more commonly seems to refer to.)

and:

I should mention again that even the standard brakes may be adequate for almost all street driving. The larger brakes are really only needed for a race track.
 
Last edited:

JustTheTip

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2018
Messages
284
Location
Chicago
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#7
Agree, the front compression damping and spring rate may need to be higher for the greater front mass of any Dual Motor car, including Performance. So you're right, that may be a different kit.

Sasha's brake kit may not be needed if PUO is ordered since it comes with at least larger front brakes
I’d actually love to know the weight difference between the front Tesla BBK rotors vs MPP’s. I’m sure the veins in the Tesla rotors will be straight vs curved like in the MPP kit. Heat dissipation and weight savings could very well be significant in the MPP kit. If so, I’ll get it. Eventually. :)
 

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#8
I’d actually love to know the weight difference between the front Tesla BBK rotors vs MPP’s. I’m sure the veins in the Tesla rotors will be straight vs curved like in the MPP kit. Heat dissipation and weight savings could very well be significant in the MPP kit. If so, I’ll get it. Eventually. :)
I'd be surprised if they weren't similar. Both are larger Iron rotors with separate hats, provided by major suppliers. Need measurements though.
 
Last edited:

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#9
What I was personally trying to decide in this thread is whether to get PUO initially, or upgrade those things myself later. It makes much sense to drive the stock PUO as a baseline, but I'm pretty sure I want coilovers, etc. OTOH as pointed out, it may take a little while for aftermarket coilovers to become available, but probably not too long.

Comments?
 

PandaM3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
302
Location
Santa Ana, California
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#10
I’d actually love to know the weight difference between the front Tesla BBK rotors vs MPP’s. I’m sure the veins in the Tesla rotors will be straight vs curved like in the MPP kit. Heat dissipation and weight savings could very well be significant in the MPP kit. If so, I’ll get it. Eventually. :)
The performance rotors look to be a floating rotor design much like my factory bmw Bmw m3 rotors...

MPP is a multipiece rotor with aluminum hat so it’s much lighter.
 

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#11
The performance rotors look to be a floating rotor design much like my factory bmw Bmw m3 rotors...

MPP is a multipiece rotor with aluminum hat so it’s much lighter.
Pictures of PUO may show fixed calipers front. Tesla says PUO rotors are Iron with Aluminum hats. Rear rotors on PUO also appear to be two piece.
 
Last edited:

PandaM3

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
302
Location
Santa Ana, California
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#12
The factory PUO front caliper may be floating. But Tesla says PUO rotors are Iron with Aluminum hats. The PUO rears may also be floating.

Presumably you meant floating caliper and not floating rotor. Floating caliper means the caliper is mounted on sliding rods which allows it to move with the brake disc as it wears. Most purpose built race cars use floating calipers. Most street cars use fixed calipers.
You have it backwards.

Fixed caliper with multiple pistons is best for a high performance sedan or for the track. The LR front caliper is a fixed 4 piston caliper and rear is a single piston floating/ sliding caliper. The performance caliper is probably a 6 piston caliper. Fixed multiple pistons give better brake pedal feel and more consistent braking on the track.

The LR rotors are single piece iron discs.

The Performance rotors look to be a floating design... but it’s not multipiece otherwise you’ll see the rivets for the aluminum hat.

MPP has a true multipiece design.
 
1

18259

Guest
#14
Carbon Fiber Spoiler, Brakes and wheels make for a great value if the look of them appeals to you. I spec'd this option on my incoming P3 . Found these posted over on Reddit.



model-3-performance-spoiler-badge-3-327x245.jpg model-3-performance-spoiler-badge-1-660x495.jpg
 

JeffC

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
602
Location
Silicon Valley
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#15
Carbon Fiber Spoiler, Brakes and wheels make for a great value if the look of them appeals to you. I spec'd this option on my incoming P3 . Found these posted over on Reddit.
Agree PUO looks great, but I probably value performance a bit over looks.

(And all variants are good looking, well except maybe the Aeros. I like the Aero wheels, but don't like their dark color. I will wrap the grey part Silver if I get them, but keep the black part black, like the left side of: https://i.redditmedia.com/u0IZN2IS_...IPUgG8.jpg?s=4991e82084ae9221f0c334290a1fc3c2 )

The spoiler probably does improve stability at top speed, i.e., it's actually functional.

In Germany, car accessories can't be sold if they hurt performance.
 

MountainPass

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2018
Messages
384
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#16
Thanks for the great write-up and your thoughts! It was never our intention to compete with Tesla's options, but that seems to be what is happening here!

We are currently working on coilovers for the dual motor cars, so once we have the final dimensions hopefully we can have those produced faster than our current coilovers have taken as it's just a small change to the valving and spring rates in the front, and the clevis around the front axle.

I would love to get my hands on that spoiler, it looks great. Subtle.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
9,928
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#17
I think @JeffC just talked me into dropping the PUO.
  • I don't want a spoiler
  • I don't care what my pedals look like
  • I do really like the brake upgrade. But honestly, I don't need it. And it sounds like it would prevent me from running snow tires on 18" wheels in the winter.
  • I'd much rather have a staggered 18" or 19" setup than the square-set 20" wheels for summer.
Plus, if I get it with the 18s, then that gives me a great excuse to plan a road trip to meet @Mad Hungarian to help me pick out a new set of wheels for my ride. :cool:
 

Skione65

Top-Contributor
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
719
Location
Kentucky
Tesla Owner
Reservation
Country
Country
#18
I think @JeffC just talked me into dropping the PUO.
  • I don't want a spoiler
  • I don't care what my pedals look like
  • I do really like the brake upgrade. But honestly, I don't need it. And it sounds like it would prevent me from running snow tires on 18" wheels in the winter.
  • I'd much rather have a staggered 18" or 19" setup than the square-set 20" wheels for summer.
Plus, if I get it with the 18s, then that gives me a great excuse to plan a road trip to meet @Mad Hungarian to help me pick out a new set of wheels for my ride. :cool:
@garsh,

I’ve been battling this as well. I’m in for Sasha’s Sport Coilovers and camber and toe arm setup and more than likely the upgraded brake package from MPP after he retunes for P3D. Right now I’ve got the PUO as well on config/order. May just run that until Shasta’s kit is out. Decisions.

Ski
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
9,928
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#19
I'm officially on the fence.

I like those upgraded brakes. I don't need them, but I like them.

But I also liked the idea of using Aeros for winter tires. I need conclusive evidence that the Aeros won't fit with the upgraded brakes.
 

Mad Hungarian

Resident M3OC Wheel/Tire Guru
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
857
Location
Montreal, QC
Country
Country
#20
(Some of this has been mentioned separately in other threads, but new information about the $5k Performance Upgrade option (gonna call it PUO here) available only with the Performance version of Model 3 helps clarify and consolidate some thoughts about it.)

I currently have the $5k Performance Upgrade option selected on my Silver Performance Model 3 configuration, but ultimately I probably want to upgrade the springs and dampers to @Sasha Anis 's MPP KW coilover kit: https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model-3-sports-coilovers/ , and I'm having some difficulty deciding between getting PUO or not. Most of the things inlcluded in PUO can be upgraded with aftermarket parts instead. PUO includes larger wheels, small spoiler, metal pedal covers, and performance brakes. Wheels are 20 inch with the excellent street performance Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tire.

My goal is having excellent street performance, plus adjustment range to possibly take the car to a race track. It's very clear from Sasha's video that the coilovers make a huge improvement in track performance, though larger brakes, lighter wheels and near race tires are also needed. To those not familiar with modifying cars, these kinds of upgrades very much help a well-engineered car reach more of its full performance potential. It's very much the reason for AMG Mercedes, BMW M cars, aftermarket tuners, etc. (AMG was an aftermarket firm originally; Mercedes bought them and made them the in-house performance tuner. BMW M was always the in-house tuner of performance versions.)


All Teslas are very well engineered mechanically, electrically, chemically and software/neural-network-ly ;), but Model 3 has the best potential for performance tuning since it's so much lighter than Model S. Due to its lighter weight and smaller size, Model 3 is much more efficient on the street, but also on the race track, where Model S tends to overheat its motor or battery pack after a few laps. Model 3 has already endured full track sessions with little difficulty except for fried stock brake pads. Starting from an excellent mechanical design, Model 3 has major improvement potential from these modifications.

My main attraction in Sasha's coilover kit is lower ride height than factory Performance option, wide range of damping (rebound) adjustment, from nearly factory soft to harder than needed for race track, plus ride height adjustment via the coilovers. That should make for relatively comfortable street driving and also good race track performance.

While the 1cm lower factory Performance suspension likely is a performance-biased improvement over the LR/SR/AWD, and should work well on real-world bumpy roads and potholes due to keeping most of the highish ride height abd retaining most of the LR/SR/AWD wheel travel, ultimate performance arguably needs coilovers.

(More wheel travel generally allows a suspension to better handle bumps, potholes, etc. Race tracks are generally sooth; real roads not. Taller ride height and resulting longer wheel travel is an advantage on the street. Lower, stiffer cars are generally an advantage on the track. As in everything engineering, all design decisions are a tradeoff.)

Judging by the video, main thing lacking from Model 3 for the race track now seems to be camber adjustment at the front. Kind of surprised that lowering the car 40mm did not result in enough camber gain at the front, but I suppose someone will make camber plates eventually. (Sasha hinted that he's thinking about that too.) (If lowering did not increase camber enough, then camber plates would not exist, so apparently more camber is needed for most street cars taken to a race track.)

(Camber is the tilt of the wheel from the lateral outside towards the center of the car. More camber makes the outside edges of the wheels tilt up higher than the insides, which helps them stick better in turns, at least for cars with a lot of suspension travel and relatively short suspension arms, i.e., normal production road cars. Reference: Carroll Smith: Tune to Win book series. Open wheel formula race cars have long suspension arms and less wheel travel and need less camber.)

Talk of camber also brings up suitability to street use and the compromises for track use. Ideally one would like minimal camber on the street to reduce tire wear and quite a bit of camber on the track for better grip in turns. Camber plates do make it possible to adjust that for the track, just as coilovers allow reducing ride height for the track, along with adjustable dampers for damping. But it's somewhat of a hassle to change those and need to realign the suspension each time.

The other major question the Tesla community had was brakes. Tesla said on twitter that without PUO, Performance Model 3 gets the same brakes as LR, AWD, etc. PUO includes larger rotors with iron discs and probably Aluminum hats, apparently both at front and back. Supplier for PUO brakes is Brembo, but Brembo may also supply the regular brakes.

It's worth repeating again here that brake upgrades will generally only be relevant on a race track. Normal street driving does not heat up the brakes, pads or fluid enough to get brake fade. Only repeated high power braking from high speeds can do that, and it's really only possible to do that safely or legally on a race track. Unless you're going on a race track, you likely don't need nor would benefit from larger brake rotors, etc.

Sasha also sells a front brake upgrade that he reported works very well on the race track with upgraded pads and fluid, but with the stock brake caliper, which is special in that it has low drag for better EV efficiency. His 365 mm rotor does not fit with 18 inch wheels, so he used 19s on the track and added a machined adapter plate to attach the caliper when used with the larger rotor.

Tesla has still not made it clear whether the PUO brakes would fit the 18 inch Aero wheels. I hope to measure all when Performance Model 3 comes to stores. If the PUO brakes will fit Aeros, then that would be a reason to get PUO so its upgraded brakes could be used with Aeros for their greater efficiency on long road trips. If not, then I could skip PUO and go directly to Sasha's brakes.

At some point Tesla quoted the Performance brakes as 355 mm, but they have taken down that reference, so it may have changed. 355 mm probably fit inside most 18 inch wheels, but it's borderline.

Feedback wanted.

I'm still tempted to get PUO to learn the factory's tuning, even if I end up changing out springs/dampers, wheels/tires later. And I would like to get the Aeros, but only if PUO brakes fit. How to solve this?

PUO also includes a small spoiler that may actually improve high speed stability enough to allow the 155 MPH top speed upgrade. This is of minor interest to me. It's almost impossible to try top speed here legally (except for legal open road races, salt flats, etc.).

PUO includes metal pedal (covers). Nice, but not important to me.


For people who are normal street drivers and not performance oriented, none of the above will likely be relevant. The above is for people who like to push their cars towards the limits of performance, hopefully on a race track. In this way we celebrate more of what the cars can do, and likely do very well in the case of Model 3. Again, some of this may not be legal to do on the street, and I will never advocate breaking any laws. Please explore the limits safely on a race track, autocross course, etc.

Please do go to a performance driving school or racing school, even if you never intend to race, in order to learn how to drive safely at the limits, for example which can come up in an emergency on the street. Unfortunately millions of people die annually in car crashes, due at least in part to ignorance about this.

Safety systems like traction control, ABS, seat belts, air bags, etc., can and do save lives, but they can't defeat the laws of physics. The driver is by far the most important part of the equation.

Also, racing, or even high performance driving at track days with no competition, is great fun.


P.S. Thanks to mods for moving this thread to Tech Talk forum.
Good post Jeff, although the only correction I'd make is that Tesla has NOT said that the non-PUP Performance cars have the same brakes as LR / AWD / etc, the exact wording of their response is that they have the same brakes as regular Dual...



So we know the configuration and caliper type, but do not yet know what
size the Dual brakes are (not that I've made a big deal about that or anything :))