Tesla S/X/3 costs & demographic study

MelindaV

☰ > 3
Moderator
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
9,033
Location
Vancouver, WA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#1
I came across this yesterday when on Teslarati's site and found it interesting. For me, most surprising was what they stated was the annual average income level of $160k USD for Model 3 reservation holders. I would have expected it to be much lower, maybe because my income is significantly less than that and I can easily afford an optioned Model 3. That and X owners income is nearly double that of S owners.
See the link for more then let me know if you were surprised by the same.

http://www.teslarati.com/survey-model-x-owners-income-double-model-s/

 

Michael Russo

MSM Team Founder, Midnight S≡R≡NITY rider
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
5,799
Location
Pau, France
Tesla Owner
Model S
Country
Country
#2
Thanks, @MelindaV , I had not paid so much attention to this one as the title did not mention Model ≡...
Understand your point about average income. By comparing that metric to selling price of the 3 models, one could have expected it to be at least 20-30% lower...
Although, I guess that, to consider paying on avg. $48k for a car, unless prospective buyers are true EV enthousiasts (for one or more reasons), if may not be that surprising that you'd want to have close to 3-3.5x that amount in annual income rather than 2-2.5x...
 

MelindaV

☰ > 3
Moderator
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
9,033
Location
Vancouver, WA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#3
Not specifically on this forum, but on testa's or TMC, I've seen many reservation holders say they will only get the standard $35k and if they can't get their local tax credits / rebates they would not be able to afford it. AND for US specific reservations have seen some admit their tax obligation is less than $7500 so would not be able to get the full credit.
and with a quick average household income in the US, came up with the following:
US Household Income. According to the Census ACS survey, the median household income for the United States was $55,775 in 2015
so the Teslarati article eludes to the average Model ☰ buyer will be 3x the median income.
 

Michael Russo

MSM Team Founder, Midnight S≡R≡NITY rider
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
5,799
Location
Pau, France
Tesla Owner
Model S
Country
Country
#4
(...) I've seen many reservation holders say they will only get the standard $35k and if they can't get their local tax credits/rebates they would not be able to afford it.(...)
(...) so the Teslarati article eludes to the average Model ☰ buyer will be 3x the median income.
Indeed... which in itself is what you'd expect of the average 3 Series/A4/C-class buyer... Let's see...
Check this out (1999 data!)
'In the U.S., the mean household income across the BMW line is $163,000, ranging from $140,000 for 3-series buyers to $260,000 on the 7-series.'
http://m.wardsauto.com/news-analysis/wanna-buy-bmwbrand-equity-defines-its-allure
 

Guy Weathersby

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
256
Location
Poway CA
#5
[QUOTE="MelindaV, post: 14936]

so the Teslarati article eludes to the average Model ☰ buyer will be 3x the median income.[/QUOTE]

At the risk of picking nits, comparing an average income to a median income somewhat exaggerates the situation. The average US income is around $75,000. Also most people's ability to estimate their own income is problematic.

Still the difference is a bit worrisome for widespread BEV adoption. One factor may be that risking $1000 for a chance to wait for years for a product that they have not really seen may well be more daunting for a person of average income than for folks with more cash. I hope that as the Model 3 actually becomes available, its acceptance will be more widespread.
 

Red Sage

The Cybernetic Samurai
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
714
Location
Los Angeles CA
Country
Country
#6
This is the part where I like to point out: It doesn't matter if the Model ☰ is a car for 'most people' or not. Truthfully, neither are the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry. That's because 'most people' in the U.S. purchase used cars.

Over 17,000,000 new cars, with an average price of $33,000 were sold in the U.S. during 2015. That same year, over 38,000,000 used cars, with an average price of $18,000 and aged over 10 years each were sold. Apparently, 'most people' would rather buy something that is 'new to them'.

You have to sell new cars before there can be any used cars to sell to 'most people'. It will be a long time before 'most people' are able to 'afford' a ten-year-old Model ☰. Let's not worry about 'most people' right now, OK?
 

Michael Russo

MSM Team Founder, Midnight S≡R≡NITY rider
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
5,799
Location
Pau, France
Tesla Owner
Model S
Country
Country
#7
(...) You have to sell new cars before there can be any used cars to sell to 'most people'. It will be a long time before 'most people' are able to 'afford' a ten-year-old Model ☰. Let's not worry about 'most people' right now, OK?
Interesting perspective and useful data... I would only add I don't remember anybody up to now expressing a worry, @Red Sage ...

:D :D

I believe we were mainly observing the average Model ≡ buyer seems to have a higher income than the median (and average) yearly income in the US, as is the case for targeted competitive ICE cars. And that there may be some who earn < $160k per year who nevertheless will be able to afford an nicely equipped Model ≡!

Which is great news! :)
 

TrevP

TOO Founder / Administrator
Founder
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
6,548
Location
Toronto
Tesla Owner
Model X
Country
Country
#8
I find the trend of potential EV buyers counting on or coming to expect that EVs will always come with some kind of incentive or rebate disturbing. Rebates are nice to get, don't get me wrong as we're quite fortunate in Ontario to have some of the best in the world (a rebate in the literal sense of the word), but if you're counting on getting one to make the car affordable then maybe you shouldn't be considering it?

The US tax credit for example is very much misunderstood with most thinking it's a real rebate instead of what it really is: a tax input credit against federal taxes owning. Not everyone will qualify for the full amount!!

Then you have GM disingenuously advertising the price of the Bolt as $30000 (after incentives) whereas Tesla is pricing the Model 3 as if the tax incentive doesn't exist. At least they're setting everyone up for the real cost of the car.
 

Red Sage

The Cybernetic Samurai
Joined
Dec 3, 2016
Messages
714
Location
Los Angeles CA
Country
Country
#9
...if you're counting on getting one to make the car affordable then maybe you shouldn't be considering it?
Exactly.

I do harp on affordability quite a bit. I tend to vehemently disagree with most people as to what that actually is... Especially those who insist they are 'able to make the payments' or that living within their means is somehow 'impossible' to achieve.
 

Johnm6875

Active Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2016
Messages
73
Location
Auburn
Country
Country
#11
Exactly.

I do harp on affordability quite a bit. I tend to vehemently disagree with most people as to what that actually is... Especially those who insist they are 'able to make the payments' or that living within their means is somehow 'impossible' to achieve.
I have seen a desire by some for less expensive vehicles for the "masses" but it seems Tesla only needs to offer cars that are competitive and appealing for 500,000 people for a few years. That's all they can make right now. And, in the not too distant future, the "masses" may not even buy an inexpensive car if Ride-Sharing makes sense.
 

TrevP

TOO Founder / Administrator
Founder
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
6,548
Location
Toronto
Tesla Owner
Model X
Country
Country
#12
it does seem many feel the need to be financially extended as much as a lender(s) permits them to be.
I see this a lot where I live. So many people buying huge houses and multiple expensive cars. Money is cheap right now so it's easy to be lulled into getting credit.
 

TrevP

TOO Founder / Administrator
Founder
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
6,548
Location
Toronto
Tesla Owner
Model X
Country
Country
#13
I have seen a desire by some for less expensive vehicles for the "masses" but it seems Tesla only needs to offer cars that are competitive and appealing for 500,000 people for a few years. That's all they can make right now. And, in the not too distant future, the "masses" may not even buy an inexpensive car if Ride-Sharing makes sense.
I have my doubts about ride sharing, not from the tech aspect but from the social acceptance aspect. How many in our age group would actually forgo owning a car and just summon one? Not me, I like owning a car. But my daughter who turns 16 this summer has absolutely no interest in owning a car let alone getting her drivers license. I offered to pay for it and she says "no, I'm good. I use the bus to get around". Freedom it seems has changed drastically since I was a kid.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
10,594
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#14
But my daughter who turns 16 this summer has absolutely no interest in owning a car let alone getting her drivers license. I offered to pay for it and she says "no, I'm good. I use the bus to get around". Freedom it seems has changed drastically since I was a kid.
Yep. I had to force my 17yo son to get a driver's license. He has no interest in driving, ever. We're raising the Uber/Lyft generation.
 

Steve C

Well-Known Member
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2016
Messages
370
Location
Toronto
Country
Country
#15
I have my doubts about ride sharing, not from the tech aspect but from the social acceptance aspect. How many in our age group would actually forgo owning a car and just summon one? Not me, I like owning a car. But my daughter who turns 16 this summer has absolutely no interest in owning a car let alone getting her drivers license. I offered to pay for it and she says "no, I'm good. I use the bus to get around". Freedom it seems has changed drastically since I was a kid.
It's really crazy. Back when you had your driving test on your birthday date because you didn't want to wait 1 more day... guess those days are gone.

I am also hoping that this new generation will use my 2nd Tesla I just put my deposit on to do exactly that... ride share. Wish me luck! lol.

I can always cancel if the situation changes (Or transfer the deposit onto the Y)
 

Badback

Valued Community Member
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
1,111
Location
Prior Lake, MN
Tesla Owner
Reservation
Country
Country
#16
I have always enjoyed owning a car. I think that it is the freedom to go anywhere on a whim, with no delay, no planning and no obligation to others.

Long winded part follows: When I was vary young I drove cars lent to me by my parents, they were not cars that I would have chosen, but the freedom was exhilarating. My first real car, one that I picked and owned, was a 1966 MG-B that I purchased new in Paris for $2200. I was in the Army at the time, stationed in Orleans. The money came from my re-up bonus. Reenlisting for 4 more years allowed me to spend another year in France. I never regretted this decision. I brought the MG back to the US with me but eventually traded it.

For me the 'getting there' has always been just as important as the destination.

The ≡ and possibly a Model Y later, will be the last cars that I buy. Although I enjoy travel by car, I really don't drive much anymore.
So, I expect the Tesla to last for as long as I will need a car. I could never bring myself to but another ICE car. I see all of the ads on TV and none of them are the slightest bit appealing to me.
 

InElonWeTrust

Active Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
163
Location
CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#17
Interesting comments above about the change in generations as related to driving. I took the bus the first couple of years of college and hated every minute of it. All I wanted was to get a car. Now, when my 3 arrives, there is no way I'd let anyone outside of my own circle of trust be in it. Kudos to those that can monetize it, though!
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
10,594
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#18
The most expensive vehicle I ever bought was my Honda minivan. I believe it was about $27k in 2009 ($30k in today's dollars). And that was to keep the wife happy - I didn't really want another minivan, and didn't really want to spend Honda money (domestics were cheaper).

The Leaf was $35k, but PA and Federal incentives dropped that down to $24k ($25k in today's dollars). I bought a Dodge car and a Chevy minivan new as well, but all of my other vehicles have been used. I've never spent a lot of money on vehicles.

The 3 will be by far the most expensive vehicle I've ever purchased. And I'm probably going to go full-mid-life-crisis and get the Ludicrous version (assuming that pushes me to the front of the line - I'll probably go with whatever set of options gets me my vehicle quickest).
 

MichelT3

Love those Aero's!
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
1,372
Location
Netherlands
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#19
I was about to agree with @garsh, except that I certainly won't go for Ludicrous and that I'm perfectly happy to wait a little longer. To get rid of the first flaws and to get functioning safely fully automated driving. Enabling me to save some more money.

The Model 3 will certainly be the most expensive new vehicle I ever bought. I own cars since 1977, but I only bought 2 small ones new in my life. All others have been bigger and second hand. I also tend to keep my cars a long time. Between 5 and 26 years...
So, I expect to keep my Model 3 a long time too...