Tesla is raising the price of its 'full self-driving' package by $1,000

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DocScott

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#21
I've got a poll up in another thread that asks what new feature/capability would make people want to upgrade to FSD...and it was mostly answered by people who already have FSD. I'd be curious for some of you who, like me, don't have FSD, to head over to that thread and chime in...
 

shareef777

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#22
My car can already do 90% of my local driving. Just can't turn on/off streets and make stops at lights and signs. It wouldn't be twice as useful to me to gain those things so why should I pay twice as much (or more) for them. Furthermore, why should anyone? Safe lane keeping solves most of my driving woes. And I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way.
It may not be twice as useful, but I'd bet it's 10x more difficult to safely stop/start at stop signs/lights. If a vehicle unexpectedly stopped at a green light or drove through a red one people's lives would be at risk. The amount of effort that needs to go into that compared to just maintaining a lane/speed is well beyond the small price increase. If you don't find value in it, don't buy it. Not rocket science (which I'd bet developing FSD is pretty close to ;))
 

shareef777

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#23
I've got a poll up in another thread that asks what new feature/capability would make people want to upgrade to FSD...and it was mostly answered by people who already have FSD. I'd be curious for some of you who, like me, don't have FSD, to head over to that thread and chime in...
You should remove the "I already have FSD" option as no one actually has FSD. Some of us (including myself) PAID for FSD, but we definitely don't have it. And I wouldn't consider myself having it till I can navigate door to door (which is the option I voted for).
 

TrevP

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#24
We do not condone Autopilot "defeat mechanisms" on this site. We have a lot of new Model 3 owners here who might get the wrong idea, it's bad enough the media jumps on Tesla accidents where Autopilot might possibly being involved.

It's important that we all play by the rules otherwise regulators will find a way to "take away our toys" so to speak.
 
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Needsdecaf

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#25
Call me when it's actually

Full
and
Self
and
Driving

Meaning, as I voted on in the poll, full NOA with ZERO user intervention and 100% Tesla liability for accidents when the system is in operation.

Until then, I don't care what discussions are about the price. IMO just another way to scare people into buying it now and generate revenue.

I will say that it was slick taking auto lane change out of AP and putting it in FSD. That would get me to buy FSD today, if my car got totaled or I were to buy another Tesla. Very smart Elon.
 

shareef777

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#26
Call me when it's actually

Full
and
Self
and
Driving

Meaning, as I voted on in the poll, full NOA with ZERO user intervention and 100% Tesla liability for accidents when the system is in operation.

Until then, I don't care what discussions are about the price. IMO just another way to scare people into buying it now and generate revenue.

I will say that it was slick taking auto lane change out of AP and putting it in FSD. That would get me to buy FSD today, if my car got totaled or I were to buy another Tesla. Very smart Elon.
I saw that as a way to avoid people requesting refunds. At this point you’re now paying for NoA, and will eventually get FSD at no charge when in actuality most of us that bought it did so for actual FSD as you described it.
 

DocScott

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#27
full NOA with ZERO user intervention and 100% Tesla liability for accidents when the system is in operation.
.
That's FSD, sure, but I don't think that's what "full NOA" would mean.

NOA stands for "navigate on autopilot." As Tesla described it when it was introduced, NOA is "an active guidance feature for Enhanced Autopilot that, with driver supervision, guides a car from a highway’s on-ramp to off-ramp, including suggesting and making lane changes, navigating highway interchanges, and taking exits. It’s designed to make finding and following the most efficient path to your destination even easier on the highway when Autopilot is in use." NOA may, in the future, be extended to more situations than just highways. "Full NOA" would presumably mean active guidance in all situations. But as long as it is called NOA it will presumably be about efficiency of navigation, not hands-free, attention-free autonomy (i.e. L3 or higher).

I know I'm quibbling about nomenclature, and it's largely my fault for introducing a term that hadn't been used before "door-to-door NOA" without carefully describing what I meant by that, but it's pretty clear to me what Tesla means by NOA, but that term doesn't mean true FSD (even though it's part of the FSD package) and, I think, never will mean that. When full FSD comes along, they'll call it full FSD or invent a new term.
 

Jarettp

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#28
then don't buy FSD if it isn't of value to you. nobody is forcing you to consider adding it.

this thread is about the upcoming price increase... not the debate of FSD's usefulness.
I didn't say it didn't have value. I actually specifically put a value to it. $2000. The topic is about the price increase and I'm saying it's not warranted. How is that off topic?
 

Jarettp

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#29
It may not be twice as useful, but I'd bet it's 10x more difficult to safely stop/start at stop signs/lights. If a vehicle unexpectedly stopped at a green light or drove through a red one people's lives would be at risk. The amount of effort that needs to go into that compared to just maintaining a lane/speed is well beyond the small price increase. If you don't find value in it, don't buy it. Not rocket science (which I'd bet developing FSD is pretty close to ;))
Then why did he sell it for $2k a few months back? He only raised it after people who had already bought it complained about being ripped off. Don't get me wrong, I want FSD. I'm just voicing my displeasure at where the pricing is going for it.
 

Needsdecaf

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#30
That's FSD, sure, but I don't think that's what "full NOA" would mean.

NOA stands for "navigate on autopilot." As Tesla described it when it was introduced, NOA is "an active guidance feature for Enhanced Autopilot that, with driver supervision, guides a car from a highway’s on-ramp to off-ramp, including suggesting and making lane changes, navigating highway interchanges, and taking exits. It’s designed to make finding and following the most efficient path to your destination even easier on the highway when Autopilot is in use." NOA may, in the future, be extended to more situations than just highways. "Full NOA" would presumably mean active guidance in all situations. But as long as it is called NOA it will presumably be about efficiency of navigation, not hands-free, attention-free autonomy (i.e. L3 or higher).

I know I'm quibbling about nomenclature, and it's largely my fault for introducing a term that hadn't been used before "door-to-door NOA" without carefully describing what I meant by that, but it's pretty clear to me what Tesla means by NOA, but that term doesn't mean true FSD (even though it's part of the FSD package) and, I think, never will mean that. When full FSD comes along, they'll call it full FSD or invent a new term.

Yes, quibbling. Full self driving means I put in a destination and arrive there with doing nothing. That’s what I am referring to.
 

shareef777

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#31
Then why did he sell it for $2k a few months back? He only raised it after people who had already bought it complained about being ripped off. Don't get me wrong, I want FSD. I'm just voicing my displeasure at where the pricing is going for it.
Costs for R&D for FSD have gone up so price will go up. Though demand will also dictate future pricing. Why did Ludicrous mode cost $20k and now it’s free? I’d bet most of the R&D for that has been recouped and (even more likely) stagnating sales of the S/X warranted
 

Jarettp

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#32
Costs for R&D for FSD have gone up so price will go up. Though demand will also dictate future pricing. Why did Ludicrous mode cost $20k and now it’s free? I’d bet most of the R&D for that has been recouped and (even more likely) stagnating sales of the S/X warranted
Even more reason to wait for the price to come down.
 

M3OC Rules

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#33
It's going to wreck their million robo-taxis plan if they overcharge for FSD. Someday they are going to decide they want more people buying FSD and they will have a deal.
 

DocScott

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#36
Yeah, the people who payed for FSD when EAP was available have so far paid for nothing. But the people who pay for FSD on a new car now are getting the features that used to be EAP. So far, then, it's just a name change. Pretty soon Tesla needs to pull the trigger and provide features that go to FSD but not to EAP. Presumably enhanced summon will be the first of those.

EDIT: As pointed out below, Enhanced Summon is also supposed to be part of EAP. So the first FSD feature will be after that.
 
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Bokonon

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#37
Pretty soon Tesla needs to pull the trigger and provide features that go to FSD but not to EAP. Presumably enhanced summon will be the first of those.
Enhanced Summon was advertised as being part of EAP from time that HW 2.0 was announced, so it will likely remain an EAP feature. (I believe we saw some official/Tweeted confirmation to this effect a few months ago, but I don't have it handy.)

The first FSD-exclusive features may be something like expanding upon the existing stoplight/stop-sign detection to enable some kind of basic, officially-sanctioned driver assistance on surface streets (similar to plain Autosteer on highways).
 

skygraff

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#40
Yeah, if it's going to stay that way ($3k), I'll wait. However, because that's a slight savings over what I'd expected to spend should I decide to add it after purchase (original statement was $4k after purchase and thought that was a locked price based on purchase date), if it's only temporary, I may just go ahead and pull the trigger in order to ensure I'm at least in line for the upgraded hardware. Would be nice if they'd let us "reserve" the FSD at a particular price; not that it helped with the car reservation (what's that special thing for line waiters, again?).