Supercharging pay-per-use

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LUXMAN

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#21
you all may want to re-check your supercharger state rates. Oregon & Washington both just doubled per kWh!

for instance, in Washington I pay 8 cents for electricity at home. Washington's supercharger rate had been 11 cents. Now 25 cents - so 3x the home rate! Oregon was 12 cents and now 24 cents.

https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

some snapshots showing the US States' increase in both the cent increase and percentage change. (for the states that charge per minute, this is using the higher rate of charge fee).

View attachment 6247 View attachment 6248
So where did this info come from?
I ask as it says TX had a 4¢ rate increase but it is the same rate on the Tesla website it always was....10¢/20¢
The chart further down says it use to be 16¢ but that was never the case for TX
 

LUXMAN

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#22
Welp, I’ve always thought Tesla should charge more for maintenance or even make a profit from Superchargers, so time to put my money where my mouth is. :D

Gotta say, this updated pricing makes buying the “premium model s/x” even more valuable as their perceived energy savings at Superchargers just increased.
“Perceived” is the correct word. A base 75D in Red (cuz I have to) is $23,500 more than the 3 I ordered. So if I used the SCs exclusively, it would take me 117,500 miles to make up that difference. A base 100D would take me 215,000 miles at a TX rate of 20¢ for thr high power. Not as much as I thought itwas gonna be when I started the calcs, but I cant see a world were I would do this for that many miles. I guess it is conceivable if you live in a condo and only use a local SC with a higher rate plan like CA or WA, but what a pain in the ....
 
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viperd

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#23
So where did this info come from?
I ask as it says TX had a 4¢ rate increase but it is the same rate on the Tesla website it always was....10¢/20¢
The chart further down says it use to be 16¢ but that was never the case for TX
I recall checking Texas when the rates were first posted and they were .08/.16
 

LUXMAN

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#24
I recall checking Texas when the rates were first posted and they were .08/.16
Maybe they quietly changed TX awhile back as they have always been 10/20¢ since I’ve been looking and have always used those rates.
But not bad rates either way.
I actually paid for a QC for the first time ever recently on my Leaf. It cost me 5.78 for a 16 minute charge at 48kw for a total of 11kw. With the EvGo new plan, it would have been $4.00 vs the SC at that rate would have been $1.60.
So good price from SC IMO.
Of course at the house I am at about 7.7¢ per Kw by the time I get to charging the car.
So it woulda been 85¢
 

MelindaV

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#25
(I just posted the following over at TMC in a similar thread, so sorry if you see it twice...)

It looks a lot like Tesla switched from basing SC prices on avg state electricity prices to basing them on avg state gasoline prices instead.

(I actually plotted out the old and new SC prices vs electricity and gas prices by state to check this hypothesis. The correlation isn't perfect, but it's quite strong.)

Washington State is a good example. It has amongst the lowest electricity prices but amongst the highest gasoline prices. This explains why it saw the biggest jump in SC price of any state.

By basing the SC prices on avg state gas prices instead of electricity prices, Tesla can raise the SC prices as high as possible in each state without violating their "cheaper than gas" pledge.
I agree with you that they may be using the gas prices to rationalize the supercharging rates, but it is as relevant as basing the Supercharger rates on the local cost of milk. It’s totally irrelevant to them operating the supercharges.
 

MelindaV

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#26
So where did this info come from?
I ask as it says TX had a 4¢ rate increase but it is the same rate on the Tesla website it always was....10¢/20¢
The chart further down says it use to be 16¢ but that was never the case for TX
I pulled the prior fees from the archive.org page from feb and the new from the current page.

EDIT: just went back to double check, and each archive shows texas as 16/8, back to the July 1, 2017 version.
 
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rareohs

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#27
increasing the pricing is a smart play. It ensures people don’t use it as a replacement for their home solution, because charging at home should be cheaper yet it continues to make distance travel in an electric still more cost friendly than the same travel in a gas car.
Agree mostly; I’ve always thought the
simplest way to reduce local congestion would be to charge a higher access rate within say 25 or 50 miles of your home location (based off ZIP Code of registration.) When you’re outside of that, i.e., obviously on a road trip, lower rates.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#28
I'm a bit baffled as to what's going on here. I thought they were in the process of actually making local Supercharging a thing for people who live in condos and apartments with this new Urban Charging network. Wouldn't it now be completely counterproductive for them to jack the rates in an effort to discourage local charging?
On a separate note, I find it RIDICULOUS that they're charging the same new higher rates in Ontario and Quebec. We pay less than half the Ontario kWh rates in Quebec for both home and commercial supply (around 0.06 is my all-in home average).
What the hell Tesla????
 
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Dogwhistle

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#29
Agree mostly; I’ve always thought the
simplest way to reduce local congestion would be to charge a higher access rate within say 25 or 50 miles of your home location (based off ZIP Code of registration.) When you’re outside of that, i.e., obviously on a road trip, lower rates.
Too complicated. People move, lie, etc...
 

rareohs

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#30
Too complicated. People move, lie, etc...
I don’t know....

Tesla has to know exactly where every one of its cars is at any given moment. When you move you update registration. As for lying, if car is registered to zip X and it spends 98% of its time in zip Y then wouldn’t that be pretty obvious?

Seems like it would pretty damn easy for a big computer system to track it and know what rate to apply
 

jsmay311

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#31
On a separate note, I find it RIDICULOUS that they're charging the same new higher rates in Ontario and Quebec. We pay less than half the Ontario kWh rates in Quebec for both home and commercial supply (around 0.06 is my all-in home average).
What the hell Tesla????
Pretty sure they decoupled the Supercharging prices from electricity costs and instead are benchmarking them against gasoline prices. And Quebec and Ontario have similar gasoline prices. http://www.gasbuddy.com/CAN
 

LUXMAN

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#32
I pulled the prior fees from the archive.org page from feb and the new from the current page.

EDIT: just went back to double check, and each archive shows texas as 16/8, back to the July 1, 2017 version.
Ok, well, I swear I always have seen 10/20¢/ minute but ok.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#33
Pretty sure they decoupled the Supercharging prices from electricity costs and instead are benchmarking them against gasoline prices. And Quebec and Ontario have similar gasoline prices. http://www.gasbuddy.com/CAN
Yes, I saw your good sleuthing work back on pg 1 in regards to this, it certainly seems they're going in that direction.
But i have two major beefs with them doing this. One is the very idea of tying it to the local price of fuel is in and of itself a distasteful move. Isn't the whole point of this movement to free ourselves from the oil industry?
Now they're suddenly our pricing model for travel?
The other is one of the biggest reasons I didn't blink at signing up to buy a car that will list out at three times more than I've ever spent in my life was the SC network and the idea I could least regularly roam the continent on a shoestring budget. I was OK at hearing it wasn't going to be free for Model 3, I kind of expected that. And I felt reassured when Elon said that they would never try to turn a profit with it. That clearly no longer seems to be the case. And frankly there's not a damn thing we can do about it.
Until now it's never really bothered me that Tesla is such a closed-loop ecosystem. I could live with it when it was little things, like the fact that they refuse to release workshop manuals. Or let us scan the car ourselves with a standard OBD reader. But (nearly) doubling SC rates in many areas on a whim, with no notice or explanation, does not fill me with confidence for what the future holds.
 

Brett

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#34
I actually plotted out the old and new SC prices vs electricity and gas prices by state to check this hypothesis. The correlation isn't perfect, but it's quite strong.
@jsmay311 Do you have an image of those plots? I would love to see them and I'm too lazy to do it myself.
 

garsh

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#37
Remember, you'll only use superchargers when travelling long distances. You'll mainly be charging at home, or for free at work if you're lucky.

I do feel bad for people who can't install a charger at home. The world's infrastructure is not yet ready for you to own an electric car, I'm afraid. :(
 

Mad Hungarian

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#38
Less congestion.

And, it pays for Supercharger expansion and (wait for it) UPGRADES.

As I am buying a car that can accept a faster charge rate, I approve...
Until the day after they double our charging speed, they quadruple the kWh rate.
Man I HATE being the pessimist in the room. It is sooooo not me. But I'm gonna need some reassurance from the Mothership on what the long term plan is here. Because this is NOT what they were telling us a year ago.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#39
Remember, you'll only use superchargers when travelling long distances. You'll mainly be charging at home, or for free at work if you're lucky.

I do feel bad for people who can't install a charger at home. The world's infrastructure is not yet ready for you to own an electric car, I'm afraid. :(
In my case I'll be doing very little mileage from home, I live 5 miles from work. Where I do get free charging. But the whole dream of buying this car was to be able to travel the province on weekends and the continent 3 - 4 weeks of the year for peanuts. That'll represent 75% of my mileage over the next few years. And they just added 80% to the cost of that, without so much as a peep as to why. Or if they'll do it again next year. And the year after that.