Supercharging pay-per-use

MelindaV

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#1
UPDATED NORTH AMERICAN INFO AS OF JANUARY 2019 HERE


you all may want to re-check your supercharger state rates. Oregon & Washington both just doubled per kWh!

for instance, in Washington I pay 8 cents for electricity at home. Washington's supercharger rate had been 11 cents. Now 25 cents - so 3x the home rate! Oregon was 12 cents and now 24 cents.

https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

some snapshots showing the US States' increase in both the cent increase and percentage change. (for the states that charge per minute, this is using the higher rate of charge fee).

Screen Shot 2018-03-11 at 1.27.36 PM.png Screen Shot 2018-03-11 at 1.27.07 PM.png
 
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SoFlaModel3

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#2
you all may want to re-check your supercharger state rates. Oregon & Washington both just doubled per kWh!

for instance, in Washington I pay 8 cents for electricity at home. Washington's supercharger rate had been 11 cents. Now 25 cents - so 3x the home rate! Oregon was 12 cents and now 24 cents.

https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging
Florida is now $0.22 kWh which I’m 99.9% is also an increase.

So a full charge of 76 kWh would be $16.72 to go 280 miles (my guess of real world max range), which of course I would never actually do. This costs $0.059/mile.

By comparison a gas car going 280 miles in a car that does say 27 miles per gallon will is going to use 10.37 gallons of gas. In my area current regular fuel rates are $2.45/gallon so $25.41. This costs $0.091/mile.

It’s less compelling than previously, but still quite compelling. I think increasing the pricing is a smart play. It ensures people don’t use it as a replacement for their home solution, because charging at home should be cheaper yet it continues to make distance travel in an electric still more cost friendly than the same travel in a gas car.
 

Ken Voss

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#3
you all may want to re-check your supercharger state rates. Oregon & Washington both just doubled per kWh!

for instance, in Washington I pay 8 cents for electricity at home. Washington's supercharger rate had been 11 cents. Now 25 cents - so 3x the home rate! Oregon was 12 cents and now 24 cents.

https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging
Good point, I am on Pacific Gas&Electric's EV rate plan and pay 12 cents for off-peak (11:00PM-6:00AM and weekends) and superchargers rates in California are 26 cents, more than twice as much. I have no intent to use superchargers unless I am on a road trip and absolutely need juice.
 

Jakesthree

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#4
I just checked Ontario supercharger rates and they increased from $0.26 to $0.40 per minute.
Some quick calculation shows that a half hour of SCing would get about 200km of range in a SR Model 3 at a cost of $12.00. My previous car was an Accord, 4 cyl. with CVT and in summer would get 6L/100km (39 mpg) so I needed 12L to go 200km. At $1.10 per litre that's $13.20 compared to $12.00 at the supercharger. Is that what Elon had in mind when he said paid supercharging was still going to be way cheaper than gas? Maybe it's way cheaper than gas for a gas guzzling sports car or SUV but for those of us who drive relatively efficient cars, I don't see much difference now.
I admit that I was disappointed to learn that free supercharging was not included with Model 3 but I got over it.
I'll probably get over this as well but damn! How much more can I take?:(:)
 

mig

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#5
Maybe this is answered somewhere already, but do the Superchargers charge for energy stored in the battery, or energy delivered from the charger?

Assuming 90% charging efficiency and 260Wh/mi then the actual cost per mile in CA ($0.26/kWh) is about 7.5 cents. At gasoline prices of $3.15/gal, a vehicle that gets 42 mpg is also 7.5 cents/mile.

Obviously we're not driving this vehicle for just the financial savings, and gas prices probably won't stay low, but the supercharger price is not all that compelling to me compared to home charging rates (though at the same time it does seem fair)

My only worry is that there is no competition for Tesla Superchargers, and clearly Tesla can and will raise prices at any time.
 

Bokonon

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#6
Massachusetts increased by $0.01/kWh to $0.23/kWh, which is still competitive with residential rates (at least in the eastern part of the state). Last month, supply + delivery was about $0.25/kWh for our household*, so Supercharging would have actually been cheaper.

* Disclaimer: we changed our energy supplier last summer to one that only buys wind power, so our $0.15/kWh generation charge may be slightly different than what's standard around here, but probably not by much.

@MelindaV those drastic increases in Supercharging prices for PNW states puzzle me, like they weren't just routine market adjustments. I have to ask though, does the $0.08/kWh you said you pay at home include the delivery charge? It seems awfully low for a fully loaded rate.

Still, even if you're paying ~$0.14-0.16/kWh in total, that's way below the Supercharging rate... I wonder if they are now basing the rate more on the local price of gas than the cost of electricity...?
 

Dogwhistle

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#7
Tesla is still trying to find the balance between compelling users to charge with their home solution vs providing a reasonable service to those who don’t have a home solution or are on road trips. It is imperative that they find a way to maximize Supercharger availability going forward, and this is a good move.
 

MelindaV

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#8
@MelindaV those drastic increases in Supercharging prices for PNW states puzzle me, like they weren't just routine market adjustments. I have to ask though, does the $0.08/kWh you said you pay at home include the delivery charge? It seems awfully low for a fully loaded rate.
Yes... my total per kWh is just a fraction of a cent over 8 cents. (Like $.08025)... also this is the 24/7 rate, not a discounted TOU or low volume rate. It is low, because it is nearly entirely renewable with little cost to the utility to provide.
 

Ken Voss

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Yes... my total per kWh is just a fraction of a cent over 8 cents. (Like $.08025)... also this is the 24/7 rate, not a discounted TOU or low volume rate. It is low, because it is nearly entirely renewable with little cost to the utility to provide.
Lucky you! My rates range from 12 cents to 45 cents based on time of use and season. Good news is I have 7 hours of 12 cent electricity between 11:00PM and 6AM every day all year and that is plenty of time to charge. I have solar which helps alot and I am considering a powerwall but need to cost justify it.
 

MelindaV

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#10
Lucky you! My rates range from 12 cents to 45 cents based on time of use and season. Good news is I have 7 hours of 12 cent electricity between 11:00PM and 6AM every day all year and that is plenty of time to charge. I have solar which helps alot and I am considering a powerwall but need to cost justify it.
so if you needed to charge during your peak rate timeframe, you could save 50% by using the local supercharger. Any time of day I would be paying 3x the local rate to use the supercharger.

I have always said I have no need for local supercharging and would only be using them on road trips, but most of my road trips are within OR/WA and now feel like using them is being screwed. Especially with this still currently on the Supercharger page:

Screen Shot 2018-03-11 at 9.52.33 AM.png
 

Ken Voss

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#11
so if you needed to charge during your peak rate timeframe, you could save 50% by using the local supercharger. Any time of day I would be paying 3x the local rate to use the supercharger.

I have always said I have no need for local supercharging and would only be using them on road trips, but most of my road trips are within OR/WA and now feel like using them is being screwed. Especially with this still current on the Supercharger page:

View attachment 6245
I would rarely (if ever) need to charge during peak time of day unless I am on a road trip out of my area. Plug in at night, set the timer to start at 11:00PM and wake up with a full charge ready to go.
 

jsmay311

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#12
Up from $0.15 to $0.24 in IL.

Another overpromise, underdeliver.

On the bright side, at least they did this before Model 3 deliveries really ramped up. The longer they would've waited, the more this would've looked like a purposeful bait-and-switch on Model 3 buyers.
 

skygraff

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#14
The question I have is:

Is this market driven and subject to fluctuations like gas (even if that is a cabal) or are the prices solely at Tesla's discretion and being used to manage user access (discourage local use)?

If the latter, I would much prefer a pricing structure based on distance from home and/or of last charging session to encourage road trip usage vs local usage.
 

MelindaV

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#15
Added a couple charts to post #1 to illustrate the changes (limited it to US States). Appears New England was relatively ignored with these increases, the Northwest and WV got the worst of it.

Also there are now listed rates for Alaska (.26/.13), Hawaii (.34), North Dakota (.22/.11) and Washington, DC (.26) that were not previously included.
 

ng0

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#16
Wow. This is very disappointing. I was excited about taking some road trips in my soon to be delivered model 3 and this definitely takes away some of the excitement of that. CA didn't go up that much but still, 26 cents is getting almost to the cost of what I pay at home. Fortunately my work has chargepoint stations that only cost 11 cents / kwh, but when I'm on roadtrips that's gonna be a bigger hit.
 

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#17
Added a couple charts to post #1 to illustrate the changes (limited it to US States). Appears New England was relatively ignored with these increases, the Northwest and WV got the worst of it.

Also there are now listed rates for Alaska (.26/.13), Hawaii (.34), North Dakota (.22/.11) and Washington, DC (.26) that were not previously included.
There's a chart on Reddit that provides similar information (albeit in far less colorful fashion :)), as well as an additional perspective that I found interesting.

Check out the second chart below, showing a state-by-state comparison of supercharging prices before and after the increase. It's almost like Tesla is trying to make the pricing more consistent nationwide, versus tying the price to the local cost of electricity. In other words, perhaps the formula for a state's pricing is now much more heavily influenced by the cost of operating the supercharger network as a whole, versus the cost of operating the network in that state.



Though this makes me wonder... if that's the reasoning, then why not just go all the way and make the pricing completely consistent across the lower 48 states? (e.g. $0.22/kWh in all states that bill by the kWh, and $0.11/min or $0.22/min in all states that bill by the minute) I guess Tesla still wants to retain some state-to-state flexibility in their pricing, so that if they encounter regulatory hurdles and/or exceptionally high rates or demand charges in a particular state, they can still charge a little bit more in that particular state while letting the rest of the network absorb part of the cost as well.

All of that said... I imagine that the majority of supercharging takes place in California, so whatever rate is set there will have an outsized influence on supercharger revenue versus the rate set for say, Idaho or North Dakota. (Not trying to pick on anyone here who happens to be from these states. :))
 

Maevra

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#18
Welp, I’ve always thought Tesla should charge more for maintenance or even make a profit from Superchargers, so time to put my money where my mouth is. :D

Gotta say, this updated pricing makes buying the “premium model s/x” even more valuable as their perceived energy savings at Superchargers just increased.
 

Michael Russo

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#19
Late to the ‘party’ & not directly impacted now, though will of course be when Midnight S≡R≡NITY has been delivered, seen the amount of long distance driving I will do...

This feels like yet another way for T≡SLA to discourage frequent use of SCs for people doing mainly local driving and could/should be charging @ home. As long as SC costs remain significantly below a corresponding tank of gas on an ICE car, a saving I imagine T≡SLA will keep for the foreseeable future, it will remain a winning proposition, even more so factoring the benefit in terms of drastic reduction of carbon footprint...
 

jsmay311

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#20
(I just posted the following over at TMC in a similar thread, so sorry if you see it twice...)

It looks a lot like Tesla switched from basing SC prices on avg state electricity prices to basing them on avg state gasoline prices instead.

(I actually plotted out the old and new SC prices vs electricity and gas prices by state to check this hypothesis. The correlation isn't perfect, but it's quite strong.)

Washington State is a good example. It has amongst the lowest electricity prices but amongst the highest gasoline prices. This explains why it saw the biggest jump in SC price of any state.

By basing the SC prices on avg state gas prices instead of electricity prices, Tesla can raise the SC prices as high as possible in each state without violating their "cheaper than gas" pledge.