Summer tires or All Seasons (aero wheels) effect on Range

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#1
Just got my Model 3 and I feel the tires get squirrley when rapidly accelerating or when taking curves. I love the range of Michelin MXM4 but its traction is meh. I am considering changing my tires to Michelin Super Sport 4S or the Pilot sport A/S 3+. I have the aero 18" and will keep the aero covers on. How much of an effect (percentage wise) on the range do you think I will take if I choose either one of the these tires?
 

garsh

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It's funny. On the Nissan Leaf boards, we had several threads where people replaced the OEM Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 LRR tires with Michelin MXM4 tires to get much better traction and cornering. :)

With a car that has 310+ miles of range, I wouldn't worry about it too much. My guess would be at most 10%.
 
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That's what I was thinking too, about 5-10%. This car is engineered so well in the handling department with it's low center of gravity and it's mid engine like weight distribution that
it begs a better tire.
 

Bokonon

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It's funny. On the Nissan Leaf boards, we had several threads where people replaced the OEM Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 LRR tires with Michelin MXM4 tires to get much better traction and cornering. :)
+100 to this. I have Ecopias on my e-Golf and they will spin on dry pavement in 70-degree weather at 80%+ throttle if the front wheels are not pointed dead straight ahead. On an EV with max torque at 0, they are borderline hazardous. (On the flip side, if you're cruising on the highway and you disable regen, the coasting ability is unreal, like you're gliding on ice.)

Given this experience, I have actually been wondering how well the MXMs will hold traction in everyday driving situations, so I'm glad @sajakh started this thread (and that you shared this data point from the Leaf forums).

Just got my Model 3 and I feel the tires get squirrley when rapidly accelerating or when taking curves. I love the range of Michelin MXM4 but its traction is meh.
I see that you're in Georgia. Out of curiosity, what have the temperatures and road conditions been like in the cases where the tires start to feel like this?
 
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#7
Over the past few weeks it's been warmer like in the 70s and I've had some wheelslip especially when turning. I felt it more at the lower temps. The tires will squeal though which I hoped there better tires would alleviate.
 

Sandy

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#8
Just got my Model 3 and I feel the tires get squirrley when rapidly accelerating or when taking curves. I love the range of Michelin MXM4 but its traction is meh. I am considering changing my tires to Michelin Super Sport 4S or the Pilot sport A/S 3+. I have the aero 18" and will keep the aero covers on. How much of an effect (percentage wise) on the range do you think I will take if I choose either one of the these tires?
Your tires are still brand new. All brand new tires are ‘greasy’ at first. Absolutely normal. Run the correct pressures set in the morning when the tires are cold. You will find that the tires will improve considerably after the first 1000kms or so and continue to improve over the next few thousand. Give them a chance as they will definitely be quieter than the replacements your looking at as well as perform better in the wet and at lower ambient temperatures. If max summer performance is your thing and you don’t care about faster tread wear and noise then go for sticky summers.
 
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4701

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The tires will squeal though which I hoped there better tires would alleviate.
Not better. Softer. Sporty tires are softer. Efficient tires are harder.
Softer tires make more rolling resistance and wear out faster.
Depending on thread design, softer tires are usually quieter.

If you were in EU, you could easily see rolling resistance rating.
Different between good and bad can be 10%. Aka, 300 miles vs 300-30 miles.

Keep in mind no-season tires are much grippier when temperature is optimal.
Anything below 10C is low. (50F). They become too hard for optimal grip.
Also keep in mind that sips bend too much when rubber is warm. Making tires less grippy.
This is why extremely soft winter tire is not excellent on dry road no matter what temperature.
Grippiest tires are those that have no thread.
 

Jayc

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Grippiest tires are those that have no thread.
Not sure about this statement on real roads, real weather conditions. With surface water on roads you could potentially very easily aquaplane so "grip" is relative to weather conditions. This is one reason why some people blindly go for low profile big wheels assuming it always improves cornering only to discover that that is not the case.
 

PNWmisty

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Not sure about this statement on real roads, real weather conditions. With surface water on roads you could potentially very easily aquaplane so "grip" is relative to weather conditions. This is one reason why some people blindly go for low profile big wheels assuming it always improves cornering only to discover that that is not the case.
So true, I was in traffic court for a speeding ticket and the case before mine was a very young "ricer" (someone who has modified Japanese car, usually Honda, with low profile, wider tires, loud exhaust, etc). He had spun out on the Interstate in a heavy downpour smashed into the jersey barrier and caused a multi-vehicle pile-up. The trooper wrote him a ticket for going "too fast for conditions". He continually argued that he wasn't going too fast, he was going the same speed as everyone else. The judge reminded him multiple times that he had hydroplaned and spun out so, by definition, he was going too fast for conditions. The poor guy didn't seem capable of understanding that the appropriate speed for conditions are variable depending upon the capabilities of the vehicle being driven. He also didn't seem to understand that he had reduced the rain performance of his car by installing extra wide, low profile tires. And this is in rainy Western Washington!
 

mdfraz

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So true, I was in traffic court for a speeding ticket and the case before mine was a very young "ricer" (someone who has modified Japanese car, usually Honda, with low profile, wider tires, loud exhaust, etc). He had spun out on the Interstate in a heavy downpour smashed into the jersey barrier and caused a multi-vehicle pile-up. The trooper wrote him a ticket for going "too fast for conditions". He continually argued that he wasn't going too fast, he was going the same speed as everyone else. The judge reminded him multiple times that he had hydroplaned and spun out so, by definition, he was going too fast for conditions. The poor guy didn't seem capable of understanding that the appropriate speed for conditions are variable depending upon the capabilities of the vehicle being driven. He also didn't seem to understand that he had reduced the rain performance of his car by installing extra wide, low profile tires. And this is in rainy Western Washington!
Sometimes I think it is WAY too easy to obtain, and keep, a driver's license in America.
 

JWardell

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#15
Almost every car I've had or known gets delivered from the factory with horrible tires. Remember that saving $10-20 per tire saves a car manufacturer billions, and it's not something they have to cover with a warranty. Furthermore, non-sticky tires get slightly better gas milage, and for someone like Tesla any extra few percent of range is huge in convincing people to buy an EV.

My usual plan is to beat the hell out of the factory tires, so I don't feel so bad when I replace them early (year or so) with some nice grippy rubber. That usually coincides with getting a second set of wheels for dedicated sets of winter and summer tires. Perfect for next year when that tax refund comes in...
 

LucyferSam

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#16
Your tires are still brand new. All brand new tires are ‘greasy’ at first. Absolutely normal. Run the correct pressures set in the morning when the tires are cold. You will find that the tires will improve considerably after the first 1000kms or so and continue to improve over the next few thousand. Give them a chance as they will definitely be quieter than the replacements your looking at as well as perform better in the wet and at lower ambient temperatures. If max summer performance is your thing and you don’t care about faster tread wear and noise then go for sticky summers.
This is very true, and as far as all season tires go the Primacy's are very solid tires. First week or so with my car and I could get a fair bit of slip on hard acceleration, but after that they've been solid even in very cold conditions as well as snow and ice (though I will get actual winter tires for next year). I'd strongly advise giving the tires some time before deciding to swap them out.
 
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4701

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#17
He also didn't seem to understand that he had reduced the rain performance of his car by installing extra wide, low profile tires.
Theoretically, it is illegal to use any other size of tire (width, height, diameter) that is NOT mentioned on the label (and/or manufacturers data/manual/registration data). But this is easily overlooked even in EU.
 
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4701

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#19
Not true in most of the world.
Many parameters will not be in spec to what vehicle was certified for.
Be it fuel economy, braking distance, safety. It's like cutting out DPF filter. Even though nothing mentions that SPECIFICALLY,
it's illegal to change noise, emissions.

So how about sharing data, that modifying vehicle in any way is ok. Like painting with different color, using using tires that are not street legal, installing hydraulic handbrake, disabling ABS system, installing awesome-looking steering wheel, changing camber, adding bull bars for safety etc.
 

garsh

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#20
So how about sharing data, that modifying vehicle in any way is ok.
I'm not saying that it's "ok". I'm saying that it is perfectly legal in most of the world.

arnis, you have a lot of good knowledge to share, but you have this habit of stating your opinions as facts. I usually agree with your opinions, but you really should refrain from presenting them as more than that.
 
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