Soooo... the selfie camera isn't for eye tracking? Then what is it for?

BluestarE3

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#5
How well would eye tracking work if the driver wears sunglasses (especially reflective ones)? Maybe they really mean head orientation/position? For example, head is turned aside or down (distracted or asleep) rather than facing forward?
 

Spiffywerks

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#6
Super-cruise works with sunglasses on. If it cannot see your eyes, then it won't turn on. It will also turn off if you are not facing forward with your eyes looking out in front of you. Camera looks right at your face from the steering wheel. Supercruise is also limited to certain highways and does not do lane changes.

The interior camera on the Model 3 is not situated in a position to be effective at determining you are looking forward.

Check out this video to see what Super Cruise does. It's a good review. But forget about the Autopilot problems. They did update the video and saying it no longer has the issues they first reported.

 

3V Pilot

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#7
If eye tracking is ineffective, how does GM manage to do it with Super Cruise?

Okay, it's really hard to say this without it sounding very snarky but I'm no fan of GM so take that for what it's worth. Just because GM did it doesn't mean it's effective. Just my opinion. Maybe Tesla engineers didn't like the fact it couldn't see through mirrored sunglasses or whatever limitations it places on the driver. Or maybe they realized it was more of a waste of time that what they could get out of it. In any case I'm really glad that autopilot doesn't track my eyeballs!
 

jsmay311

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#8
As already mentioned, Super Cruise does work with sunglasses.

And the WSJ quote says "Tesla engineers wanted to add eye tracking and other sensors", so the question isn't just about the capability of the existing camera, but rather what a different suite of hardware could've done.

Just because GM did it doesn't mean it's effective. Just my opinion. Maybe Tesla engineers didn't like the fact it couldn't see through mirrored sunglasses or whatever limitations it places on the driver.
Oh right. I forgot that Tesla is always right and GM is always wrong. Silly me. I guess I can ignore all of the Super Cruise reviews that say the eye tracking works very well. ;)
 
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jsmay311

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#10
As already mentioned, Super Cruise does work with sunglasses.
Actually, what was stated was just the opposite: "Super-cruise works with sunglasses on. If it cannot see your eyes, then it won't turn on."
Now I'm confused. Did the definition of the word "opposite" change? ;) J/k.

I'm no expert on infrared cameras, but it appears that the Super Cruise camera can "see through" sunglasses.

http://www.thedrive.com/tech/17083/...esla-autopilot-vs-gm-supercruise-head-to-head
"The driver's face is illuminated by six infrared lamps positioned on the steering wheel at 11 and 1 o'clock, while an infrared camera on top of the steering column monitors the driver's face. Turn your head or take your eyes off the road for too long—which is not that long at all—and disengagement warnings will begin.
I tried to trick it. I held my phone and began texting, first in front of the steering wheel, then off to the side. I wore four different pairs of sunglasses. No matter what I did, the disengagement warning went off."
 

MelindaV

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#12
can we move on now please? If you care to start a separate thread in the Off Topic section about the wonders of GMs Supercruise, please feel free.
 

John

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#13
Tesla has used NVidia hardware in the past for Autopilot processing, though not necessarily off-the-shelf stuff.
Here's a video of NVidia's work on eye tracking, and an interesting paper that claims that eye tracking can be reduced to a trained neural net that can run on phones and tablets, just like face recoginition already runs on just about every camera these days.


Paper:

http://gazecapture.csail.mit.edu/cvpr2016_gazecapture.pdf
 

John

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#14
I tend to think that eye tracking just got pushed aside by Tesla for other concerns, in a time where it has been most important to get Autopilot itself working, and that it's a little embarrassing that GM (actually, Seeing Machines) got this to work before them.

So I guess I'm second guessing the claim that eye tracking was set aside because it doesn't work well. I think it's true that it didn't work well for Tesla when they were last working on it, but not true that it can't.
 

garsh

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#15
I tend to think that eye tracking just got pushed aside by Tesla for other concerns, in a time where it has been most important to get Autopilot itself working, and that it's a little embarrassing that GM (actually, Seeing Machines) got this to work before them.
I really don't think the interior camera in the 3 was ever meant for eye tracking. A camera designed for eye tracking would be aimed at the driver's head. This camera is aimed at the center of the interior. I really think it's purpose is just to record passengers for when the Tesla Network becomes available.
 

jsmay311

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#16
can we move on now please? If you care to start a separate thread in the Off Topic section about the wonders of GMs Supercruise, please feel free.
It's not off topic.

The original post quotes Elon disputing the accounts of Tesla Autopilot engineers who reported that eye tracking was not added to Autopilot despite its safety benefits because Tesla execs objected to the added cost.

Musk instead argues that eye tracking was not added because it's "ineffective", but Super Cruise provides a concrete counter-example of eye tracking working effectively.
 

Spiffywerks

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#17
Here's a thought.. I'm sure Chevy tested it, and although it may sound funny....

How does the eye camera system work with Asian drivers? Some of my Asian friends eyes you can barely see. Yes, sounds silly, but I'm serious. Would the Autopilot/Supercruise not work if it didn't see your eyes cause you barely open your eyes to see?

Maybe Elon was thinking of the huge market in China?

Also another thought - I could see the use of a driver facing camera being redundant to the ultimate goal of the car: Full Self-Driving. The car's intent is to drive on it's own, so having a driver monitoring system would not be necessary and would be a waste of money if the plan is to have FSD in less than 5 years. Adding the additional equipment wouldn't only be needed on the Model 3, but S and X as well - adding another dividing line between newer models and older ones.

After all, Tesla is a company to make money. And Elon is human and can make mistakes. (OMG!) But, if it turns out not including is a mistake, I'm sure he'll man up to it and make it right.
 

KarenRei

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#18
"Racist AIs" is actually a legitimate problem that's come up to bite many projects. You have to be very careful with your training data. For example, if you're training an image recognition AI and your images of people are overwhelmingly caucasian, and you have a bunch of animals as the rest of the training set, it might start classifying people of African descent as gorillas because it's not familiar with the concept of humans with dark skin.

In the case of "asians with eyes closed", this was an actual issue with a New Zealand passport photo checker :

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-newzealand-passport-error-idUKKBN13W0RE
 

roflwaffle

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#20
I'm 97+% sure Tesla is at least doing something similar to eye-tracking with the selfie camera. I've noticed on a few occasions the 3's steering wheel would vibrate when driving. I mentioned this to my wife, and she was surprised because she never noticed it.

She tried to replicate the situations where I said it had vibrated and she couldn't. The next time I drove us someplace, I noticed the wheel vibrating again and I think figured it out. To get the steering wheel to vibrate, I need to reduce my grip on the steering wheel, drift towards another lane, and look at something inside the car instead of on the road. The wheel won't vibrate if I only loosen my grip on the steering wheel and drift towards another lane.

My guess is Elon was calling out the use of eye-tracking alone, not saying that eye-tracking isn't worthwhile.