Software Build v10.2 2019.40.50.7 ad132c7bO57e (12/31/2019)

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Did you install 2019.40.50.7?


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sterickson

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The car seemed to follow 'segments' through the curve rather than a smooth turn.
This is what has been driving me crazy for a while now. The car feels like it always wants to drive straight ahead. When it encounters a turn, it turns a tiny bit, then drives straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Ad infinitum, until it exits the turn.

It used to make a smooth arc through curves.
 

garsh

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This is what has been driving me crazy for a while now. The car feels like it always wants to drive straight ahead. When it encounters a turn, it turns a tiny bit, then drives straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Ad infinitum, until it exits the turn.

It used to make a smooth arc through curves.
That sounds like what the rest of us are calling oscillations or "ping-ponging".
 

gary in NY

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On my HomeLink setup, I open and close the garage doors manually. I've not had any problems with range or direction of the vehicle, and the on screen menu pops up at least 100' before the garage. I also have my outside lights programed on one channel. My only problem is that it will usually only preform one function before the menu disappears (open one door or turn on lights), but sometimes I can get it to do both one door and the lights without having to revive the menu.
 

Zak

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That sounds like what the rest of us are calling oscillations or "ping-ponging".
I have sean multiple examples of the car drifting to follow a drifting car in front of me. And I have felt ping-ponging coming out of a turn
 

wst88

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Just completed about 900 miles - Detroit to Milwaukee and Back. There were a couple of things I noticed. one of which was significant.
1) Nav on Auto Pilot - Auto Lane change would make a left change to speed up around slow cars, but would never return to the right lane.
2) Roads were covered in Salt yesterday, had plenty of camera errors and notifications that they were blocked. It make you wonder why they do not have washer systems for the cameras.
3) ping-pong issue improved, I would call it more of a oscillation then ping pong now.
4) Pre heating of the battery seems much more aggressive when warming up the car.

All in all it was a great trip, I was on autopilot about 95% of the time. Has anyone else noticed the car not returning to the right lane after passing traffic?

Looking forward to your feedback.
 

FRC

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Just completed about 900 miles - Detroit to Milwaukee and Back. There were a couple of things I noticed. one of which was significant.
1) Nav on Auto Pilot - Auto Lane change would make a left change to speed up around slow cars, but would never return to the right lane.
2) Roads were covered in Salt yesterday, had plenty of camera errors and notifications that they were blocked. It make you wonder why they do not have washer systems for the cameras.
3) ping-pong issue improved, I would call it more of a oscillation then ping pong now.
4) Pre heating of the battery seems much more aggressive when warming up the car.

All in all it was a great trip, I was on autopilot about 95% of the time. Has anyone else noticed the car not returning to the right lane after passing traffic?

Looking forward to your feedback.
Yes, I haven't been using NOA with 50.7 for this reason. NOA on 50.7 is a left lane hog.
 

Kizzy

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I’m definitely seeing the ping pong behavior on certain routes. It’s annoying, but does keep you awake. I have to wonder how much AP annoyances are intentional.

[…]Has anyone else noticed the car not returning to the right lane after passing traffic?

Looking forward to your feedback.
Yep. I starting to wonder if Tesla disabled the “move out of passing lane” feature because it’s not reliable and/or annoying. Back when the feature was functional, during non carpool lane hours, the car wanted to get out of the lane adjacent to an HOV lane because it assumed it was the passing lane (HOV lane with colons, adjacent “passing” lane lane with dots in diagram below).

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slotti

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I am on HW 2.5, early April 2018 car with 13xxx vin. I know with 3.0, you get cones rendered, but I was assuming my car can see them and will react on them. Well, it doesn't. Was coming close to a construction zone on the 101 last night. Temp construction zone only, and the guys had beautifully blocked the right lane with cones at a very shallow angle slowly directing traffic into the next lane. My car did not care at all. It was little traffic, so I figured I would check how long it would take it to see the cones. Needless to say, it never did and I had to take over before I almost started running into them.
 

MelindaV

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Back when the feature was functional, during non carpool lane hours, the car wanted to get out of the lane adjacent to an HOV lane because it assumed it was the passing lane (HOV lane with colons, adjacent “passing” lane lane with dots in diagram below).

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My drive home is exactly this... 3 lanes with the left HOV from 3p to 6p weekdays. I most always am in the center lane on NoA and dont remember it ever suggesting to shift to the right. And it never shows the left (part time HOV) as an option. It can be 10pm on a Saturday and it still shows on the screen as a 2 lane freeway. I assumed tesla did not recognize the HOV scheduling, but your part time HOV does?
 

JeanDeBarraux

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I am on HW 2.5, early April 2018 car with 13xxx vin. I know with 3.0, you get cones rendered, but I was assuming my car can see them and will react on them. Well, it doesn't. Was coming close to a construction zone on the 101 last night. Temp construction zone only, and the guys had beautifully blocked the right lane with cones at a very shallow angle slowly directing traffic into the next lane. My car did not care at all. It was little traffic, so I figured I would check how long it would take it to see the cones. Needless to say, it never did and I had to take over before I almost started running into them.
The car doesn't care about fire trucks or other stopped vehicles that are on the way... In any case, even if it saw the construction cones, it probably wouldn't have avoided them, unless there were matching lane markings.
 

DocScott

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The car doesn't care about fire trucks or other stopped vehicles that are on the way... In any case, even if it saw the construction cones, it probably wouldn't have avoided them, unless there were matching lane markings.
I have HW2.5. Back on v9, I remember cases where AP did follow cones. On the visualization, it simply showed the lane boundaries as where the cones were. Also, if there was a lane blocked off by cones, it knew that lane wasn't available for lane changes. Neither of those features were in 100% of the cases, but they worked more often than not.

I haven't noticed if those features still work with HW2.5 on v10. Since that was never an officially supported use case (you weren't supposed to use AP in construction zones), and since cone-recognition has likely been re-built for HW3, it wouldn't be surprising if the limited cone-recognition that HW2.5 used to have has gone away.
 

Kizzy

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My drive home is exactly this... 3 lanes with the left HOV from 3p to 6p weekdays. I most always am in the center lane on NoA and dont remember it ever suggesting to shift to the right. And it never shows the left (part time HOV) as an option. It can be 10pm on a Saturday and it still shows on the screen as a 2 lane freeway. I assumed tesla did not recognize the HOV scheduling, but your part time HOV does?
My car didn’t know the scheduling and treated an HOV lane as permanent (in my experience and if I’m remembering correctly). I do have HOV access enabled in navigation and my car has routed me there in the past. The HOV lanes in my area are only distinguished by the HOV markings in the lane (lane lines do not deviate from non-HOV lane makings).
 

Enginerd

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The car doesn't care about fire trucks or other stopped vehicles that are on the way
While I get your point, this isn't completely true. Fair, we all know about Teslas on AP with inattentive drivers, which rammed into the back of a fire truck. But in the past few updates I've noticed that on the interstate, the car does move over to the far side of the lane for vehicles stopped on the shoulder. So... it's seeing them.

This week I've been driving a rented Volvo V90 with Pilot Assist. Functionality is similar... both systems will steer and come to a complete stop in traffic when needed. The major difference, though, is that the Tesla uses camera neural networks to identify other vehicles, whether they're stopped or not. The Volvo will decelerate behind a slow moving car. But if the Volvo comes upon a car in its lane that is already stopped, it will simply slam into the back of it. It would be easy to think that this is the classic radar problem (difficult to distinguish stationary objects). But I'm pretty sure Volvo has cameras for lane detection and centering. They're just not using them like Tesla is. Volvo is also unwilling to allow much steering authority while lane keeping. Slight bends exceed its capacity.

Tesla AP is the best system on the market. It's not perfect, but it is improving.
 

FRC

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While I get your point, this isn't completely true. Fair, we all know about Teslas on AP with inattentive drivers, which rammed into the back of a fire truck. But in the past few updates I've noticed that on the interstate, the car does move over to the far side of the lane for vehicles stopped on the shoulder. So... it's seeing them.

This week I've been driving a rented Volvo V90 with Pilot Assist. Functionality is similar... both systems will steer and come to a complete stop in traffic when needed. The major difference, though, is that the Tesla uses camera neural networks to identify other vehicles, whether they're stopped or not. The Volvo will decelerate behind a slow moving car. But if the Volvo comes upon a car in its lane that is already stopped, it will simply slam into the back of it. It would be easy to think that this is the classic radar problem (difficult to distinguish stationary objects). But I'm pretty sure Volvo has cameras for lane detection and centering. They're just not using them like Tesla is. Volvo is also unwilling to allow much steering authority while lane keeping. Slight bends exceed its capacity.

Tesla AP is the best system on the market. It's not perfect, but it is improving.
Are you saying that the Volvo's lane keep function only works on straightaways? I have a neighbor with a Volvo who poo-poos my M3's autopilot functions claiming the Volvo does the same things.
 
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Have a couple of little gripes with latest update. Nav voice sometimes isn't left in the state it was when I shut down the car. I have have the voice on low. About half the time when I get in again, it's set to mute.

Same with message sync. Usually I get text messages. however, all too often, I hear them on my phone, but not the car. The Tesla software turns off the message sync button, and I have to turn it on again.

Holdover bugs that have been here forever:
Audio does not diminish when navigation voice is speaking.
Can't call someone by saying "call John Smith at home." Have to tap the home or cell button. It's distracting, and dangerous. All these new voice commands and this issue has been here forever it seems. The better voice commands (when they work) were the perfect time to fix this.
 

Klaus-rf

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And it never shows the left (part time HOV) as an option. It can be 10pm on a Saturday and it still shows on the screen as a 2 lane freeway. I assumed tesla did not recognize the HOV scheduling, but your part time HOV does?
Around here there are some roads that have a lower speed limit at "Night" than daytime. My M3 always sees only the day speed limit. Time of day / lights on/off don't seem to matter.
 

MelindaV

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Around here there are some roads that have a lower speed limit at "Night" than daytime. My M3 always sees only the day speed limit. Time of day / lights on/off don't seem to matter.
we are going to more and more variable rate speed limits on freeways here, so it'd be nice if the cameras picked up the speed instead of just depending on the map data.
 

ibgeek

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we are going to more and more variable rate speed limits on freeways here, so it'd be nice if the cameras picked up the speed instead of just depending on the map data.
Those with HW3 will see this soon. We have stop signs, stop lights cones and some types of railroad signs, all signs will be read by camera as part of full self driving. Speed limit signs should be in the next batch that are added.
 

bwilson4web

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I've been trying to quantify the 'ping-pong' and have a: http://www.gcdataconcepts.com/ham.html

Mine is the HAM-IMU:
  • General Features
    • Compact size (2.21"L 1.55"W 0.60"H, 0.9oz)
    • User selectable sample rates
    • Accurate time stamped data using Real Time Clock (RTC)
    • Data recorded to internal 8GB flash memory
    • Easily readable comma separated text data files
    • Internal hardwired rechargeable Lithium-Polymer battery, charges via USB
    • Data transfer compatible with Windows/Linux/Mac via USB interface (no special software required)
    • Three product variants: HAM-x16, HAM-IMU, HAM-IMU+Alt
  • HAM-x16 Feature
    • 3-axis 16g digital accelerometer sensor
    • User selectable sample rates of 12, 25, 50, 100, 200, and 400 Hz
    • 16-bit resolution
    • Finite Impulse Response Filter to improve data quality
  • HAM-IMU
    • 3-axis accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer
    • User selectable sample rates of 50, 100, and 200 Hz
    • Quaternion orientation solutions based on accelerometer and gyroscope data
I started it up in the car and took a 10 minute drive. The following reports show the angular change of the vertical, Z-axis. If anyone wants a copy of the data, let me know and I'll make it available. But this is what I see:
ping_010-jpg.31739

There is a periodic 'rocking' motion seen: 70-80 sec; 130-180 sec, and; 220-250 sec. A slow period, I liken it to rocking a baby to sleep.

ping_020-jpg.31740

Increasing the time resolution, the data suggest at least two frequencies that periodically achieve a beat resonance, the rocking motion. When out of phase, it looks like noise but seconds 70-82, they combine to give a rocking motion. So it comes and goes.

ping_030-jpg.31741

Further increases in resolution again suggest there are at least two frequencies, possibly more. The sampling rate was 50 Hz.

ping_040-jpg.31742

The 50 Hz sampling rate, ~0.020 sec per sample, is starting the reach the Nyquist limit. There are ~10 samples per time interval.

The car will have a natural resonance defined by the tire spring constant and mass. Wheel alignment can also induce strange behavior. Furthermore, there will also be feedback from the auto steering loop. Explaining the physics helps explain the practical steps to change the oscillations:
  1. Find a benchmark road segment that reliably exhibits 'ping-pong' - this allows seeing if anything changes the behavior.
  2. Scan tire pressure effects: (1) set tires to maximum sidewall pressure; (2) run benchmark and record effect, and; (3) reduce tire pressure 5 psi. Repeat until lowest, safe pressure reached (door jam -5 psi).
A second approach is to change the front and rear tire pressures so the spring effect is offset from the center of gravity:
  1. Repeat on the benchmark segment with recorded observations.
  2. Set all four tires to maximum sidewall.
  3. Reduce the rear tires by a series of 5 psi and repeat the benchmarks.
  4. Set all four tires to the maximum sidewall.
  5. Reduce the front tires by a series of 5 psi and repeat the benchmarks.
I'm not affected by the rocking motion but understand some people are more sensitive to motion sickness. For them, they'll be on the edge of 'sea sick.' They may want to examine more invasive techniques like tuning the wheel alignment, camber and toe, and suspension (See Mountain Pass Performance) at the risk of more tire wear.

The next step would be to do a Fourier analysis to find the frequencies involved. Then identify the sources and tweak the ones that can be modified. But did I mention the rocking motion agrees with me?

Bob Wilson

ps. My curiosity was raised when playing back at 2x speed, Bjørn Nyland's YouTube "Model 3 Standard Range Plus 1000 km challenge", I noticed the lane lines at the bottom of the frame showed a slow oscillation that appeared to have short periods of low and then higher amplitude. It was seeing this pattern that clued me to investigate what is going on.
 
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