So many are trying to make the 3 a car that it isn't

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MichelT3

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#41
And when was the last time you saw BMW 3 series towing any kind of trailer?
Where I live (semi rural part of the Netherlands) I see them regularly. At least every Saturday. People haul things around on carts here a lot. Also with sports sedans. Including BMW 3. My guess 75 % of cars in this class have a towing hitch.
We’re not all coastal US.
 

MichelT3

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#42
BUT anyone who has gotten to the point of paying the $50-$60k have seen the photos and watched the reveal event(s) and know this is not the vehicle to carry 2x4s and Sheetrock
Main reason why I wish for a towing hitch!
 

Rich M

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#43
The problem is it doesn’t exceed or even match many of the things BMW offer (let alone some things my Škoda had... WTF? :( ) , unless I have missed the updated spec (happy to be corrected) the Model 3 isn’t available with:

Heated windscreen washer jets
4 foldable grab handles - rear with clothes hook
High beam assistant
Adaptive headlights
Privacy glass
HUD
Electric tilt/slide glass sunroof??
Heated steering wheel
Rear sunblinds
Heated rear seats?? ;)
Tow hitch

Spare wheel
It's a totally different situation in Europe, from what I see, even non luxury cars are loaded with features that are just not available in the US. Even BMWs in the US are stripped down until you start ticking options and packages, which would easily put it way above the Model 3 cost. Currently the Model 3 is competitive with the most popular option packages that put it at equal cost in the US with other lux brands.
 

Rich M

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#44
Where I live (semi rural part of the Netherlands) I see them regularly. At least every Saturday. People haul things around on carts here a lot. Also with sports sedans. Including BMW 3. My guess 75 % of cars in this class have a towing hitch.
We’re not all coastal US.
Yeah, never see that in the US. If you're towing, it better be with a pickup, van or SUV.
Again, the Model 3 US designed primarily for the US market where towing just doesn't happen with a small car.
 

Rich M

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#45
However, I don't think wishing there was a reasonable bike rack solution for the Model 3 means I should go buy a BMW or Audi. I'm still hopeful there will be an aftermarket hitch, and if not, roof racks. (Now wishing there was somehow more space in the car is possibly a different story)
I just really really hope that we can attach bike roof-racks to the top. That is all.
I had seen the M3OC video with them pointing out the attachments. I'm just have worries that they are for something else entirely. I don't know what though. Are they confirmed bike rack attachment points?
There are about a dozen trunk-mounted bike racks that hook onto the trunk lid and rest below the license plate that can hold at least two bikes. They need nothing permanently bolted to the car either.
 

mdfraz

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#46
My personal feeling is that the Model 3 is pulling in people who would otherwise be in several other markets. I currently drive a Nissan Altima. If I were to get a new car, I would probably be looking at Nissan, Ford, Toyota or Subaru before I would be looking at BMW, Audi, etc. I want an electric car to reduce our dependence on oil in general and oil from unstable parts of the world in particular. Model 3 is the first electric car that I consider to be practical with a good range and a price that is (at the upper end of) my range. I'm just looking for a commuter car that I can take on occasional long trips and has the best gas mileage (not even applicable). Ability to haul stuff is a consideration as it is my only car, but I don't need a pickup or a hatchback.

Model 3 is good car for people in a variety of markets, not just the luxury sports sedan market.
This is me almost to a T, right down to the Altima as my current car.

I imagine the Tesla will provide a much better driving experience than any car I've ever owned. I'm firmly middle class and have never had a BMW (my dream car until the 3 came out) or anything similar, so I'm not used to the creature comforts, special suspension, superior craftsmanship, etc. that often come with a traditional luxury car.

I see nothing wrong with people venting about things they are disappointed in with the 3. It's a free country/forum, and I'm not usually one to stifle free speech in any form. I do, however, believe that if someone complains about the 3 not acting like an SUV, or a pickup, or a very high end luxury car, I/we can all ignore their complaints as someone who didn't do their research or who had unrealistic expectations of what the car should be. I have to believe that given the number of reservations currently on the books, and as long as Musk et al truly made a "superior" mid-size, entry level luxury sedan, a few naysayers aren't going to sink the ship that is Tesla. If the car is as good as it seems, I have to think Tesla will be just fine, especially if the semi is also successful going forward.
 

Rich M

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#47
I do, however, believe that if someone complains about the 3 not acting like an SUV, or a pickup, or a very high end luxury car, I/we can all ignore their complaints as someone who didn't do their research or who had unrealistic expectations of what the car should be.
Hit the nail on the head!
If people just asked themselves "Is my complaint about XYZ valid or expected of a US vehicle of this exact class, size, body style and price point?" there would be a lot fewer disgruntled sounding posts. :)
 

MichelT3

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#48
Yeah, never see that in the US. If you're towing, it better be with a pickup, van or SUV.
Again, the Model 3 US designed primarily for the US market where towing just doesn't happen with a small car.
In Europe pickups are a rare sight, mostly driven by people who want to show off, or landscape gardeners.
Vans are more usual, mostly used for small (building) businesses.
SUV's are getting more common, but those are hardly ever used for towing.
It's especially people with sedans (with limited loading possibilities) who tow a cart to transport stuff. Gardening, building materials, waste to the dumpsite, for moving house, etc.

And you're wrong that Model 3 is designed for the US market. Around 40% of Teslas are sold outside the US.
Model X is sold relatively more in the US (we think it ungainly big). I find Model S too big also.
Model 3 fits the size of European cars and roads better.
Model 3 is not a small car, it's a big middle sized car. Small are cars like the FIAT 500 (which is also sold in the US). Even some of those have a towing hitch here.

Please don't project your US norms on us Europeans to decide what we should want or not.
 
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mig

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#49
There are about a dozen trunk-mounted bike racks that hook onto the trunk lid and rest below the license plate that can hold at least two bikes. They need nothing permanently bolted to the car either.
Thanks for the suggestion, but It's probably safe to say that any cyclist with an existing hitch or roof rack is well aware of the trunk mounted racks. IMO, these are fine for occasional use, but once you are throwing your bike on the car every weekend, or to and from work during the week, these devices are not the optimal solution.

I'm not too worried. Despite the feelings here, I think there is enough general interest in carrying bikes, skis, and kayaks that Tesla will soon provide their roof racks, and likely there will be an after market hitch option as well (as there is on the S).
 

RunCycle

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#50
There are about a dozen trunk-mounted bike racks that hook onto the trunk lid and rest below the license plate that can hold at least two bikes. They need nothing permanently bolted to the car either.
Trunk-mounted racks are ewwwwww gross. :mask: Those things can scratch up your paint super quick, are a pain to use, and make it difficult (if you can even open it at all) to use the trunk.
 

garsh

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#51
There are about a dozen trunk-mounted bike racks that hook onto the trunk lid and rest below the license plate that can hold at least two bikes. They need nothing permanently bolted to the car either.
I used one of those back in the 90s. They scratch the hell out of your paint.
 

Rich M

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#52
And you're wrong that Model 3 is designed for the US market. Around 40% of Teslas are sold outside the US.

Please don't project your US norms on us Europeans to decide what we should want or not.
Just because 40% are sold outside the US does not mean it was designed with any nod to overseas markets. Teslas are barely designed for situations outside the California market, but I'm prepared to give them a pass on things involving cold weather, snow, salt and rain.
 

jsmay311

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#53
As long as the Model 3 is literally the only affordable BEV available that can practically drive long distances, it's inevitable that it's going to attract a wide variety of buyers that wouldn't otherwise be considering a "compact luxury sport sedan" or a vehicle with such unorthodox controls. So it might be best to make peace with the fact that there will be lots of owners with complaints about this or that detail or feature not matching their preferences, and not get overly worked up or defensive about it.

Until there is a wider selection of affordable BEVs that can practically drive cross-country (i.e., not until a nationwide public charging network gets built that's comparable to the Supercharger network), there will be plenty of square pegs trying to fit into this round hole of a car (to borrow the analogy).
 

mig

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#54
In Europe pickups are a rare sight, mostly driven by people who want to show off, or landscape gardeners. I think they are gross.
Vans are more usual, mostly used for small (building) businesses.
SUV's are getting more common, but those are hardly ever used for towing.
It's especially people with sedans (with limited loading possibilities) who tow a cart to transport stuff. Gardening, building materials, waste to the dumpsite, for moving house, etc.
.
Actually I think it is kind of an inside joke in America that 90% of SUV drivers don't actually use their vehicles for any kind of utility -- transporting bikes, gear, etc. They are just commuter cars which take the kids back and forth to sports practice.

I am getting a good laugh about this "designed for the American market" idea though because I keep thinking about "The Homer", designed to appeal to the average American:
"12 yards long, 2 lanes wide, 65 tons of American pride!"
 

Dan Detweiler

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#55
As long as the Model 3 is literally the only affordable BEV available that can practically drive long distances, it's inevitable that it's going to attract a wide variety of buyers that wouldn't otherwise be considering a "compact luxury sport sedan" or a vehicle with such unorthodox controls. So it might be best to make peace with the fact that there will be lots of owners with complaints about this or that detail or feature not matching their preferences, and not get overly worked up or defensive about it.

Until there is a wider selection of affordable BEVs that can practically drive cross-country (i.e., not until a nationwide public charging network gets built that's comparable to the Supercharger network), there will be plenty of square pegs trying to fit into this round hole of a car (to borrow the analogy).
Fair statement, but understand...the same can be said for those square peg round hole folks. They too can and should "not get overly worked up and defensive" about it.

By all accounts, the car is a game changer, like it or not. We are already seeing the fallout from its release among the traditional car makers that have fought, tooth and nail, for years against the EV movement. They are all beginning to see the writing on the wall and are developing their own models. This is all great news! If the Model 3 isn't what they wanted exactly it is no big deal to give it a few years and they will have every option they could imagine. No need to throw stones at the car that enabled the expectation for diversity among the car buying public...they just need a little more patience!

Dan
 

Rich M

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#56
...it might be best to make peace with the fact that there will be lots of owners with complaints about this or that detail or feature not matching their preferences, and not get overly worked up or defensive about it.
... there will be plenty of square pegs trying to fit into this round hole of a car (to borrow the analogy).
That was my point though - those buying into a Model 3 just because it's the first affordable EV are going to ultimately be disappointed and frustrated after the honeymoon period as they, day after day, try to fit a Toyota Highlander lifestyle into a compact sedan. I'd hate to see them blame Tesla because of this.

You sure know how to find your navel. LOL
Always right in front of me! :eek:
 

Rich M

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#57
Actually I think it is kind of an inside joke in America that 90% of SUV drivers don't actually use their vehicles for any kind of utility -- transporting bikes, gear, etc. They are just commuter cars which take the kids back and forth to sports practice.

I am getting a good laugh about this "designed for the American market" idea though because I keep thinking about "The Homer", designed to appeal to the average American:
"12 yards long, 2 lanes wide, 65 tons of American pride!"
You're thinking of the Canyonero.

The Homer is EXACTLY what the Model 3 would have turned into if they listened to every person who wanted a tow hitch here, a rack there, a hatch under here and a bigger this or a wider that.

I'm sure at some point I will see a model 3 racked-up and loaded like the Wagon Queen Family Truckster and just shake my head.
052-jpg.5214
 
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Love

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#58
You're thinking of the Canyonero.
The Homer is EXACTLY what the Model 3 would have turned into if they listened to every person who wanted a tow hitch here, a rack there, a hatch under here and a bigger this or a wider that.

I'm sure at some point I will see a model 3 racked-up and loaded like the Wagon Queen Family Truckster and just shake my head.
View attachment 5214

Obligatory!
 

MichelT3

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#59
I don't want to change Model 3, I like it a lot as it is.
I just need an option added to it, which I need rather frequently. With me many people in Europe. And for the life of me I don't understand what's the problem with adding a towing hitch as an option, if demand for it is significant. Why this US resistance against it? You won't see it anyway, this side of the ocean.
 
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Kbm3

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#60
The problem is it doesn’t exceed or even match many of the things BMW offer (let alone some things my Škoda had... WTF? :( ) , unless I have missed the updated spec (happy to be corrected) the Model 3 isn’t available with:

Heated windscreen washer jets
4 foldable grab handles - rear with clothes hook
High beam assistant
Adaptive headlights
Privacy glass
HUD
Electric tilt/slide glass sunroof??
Heated steering wheel
Rear sunblinds
Heated rear seats?? ;)
Tow hitch

Spare wheel

Now some of those things may seem trivial, but if you already have them you may not want to lose them, of course Tesla have surpassed the competition on certain things, FSD for example... well they will if it ever arrives. :p

To say:

Makes you look very ‘fanboy’... it MUST be better because... well it’s a Tesla :rolleyes:
There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, as that is what will make the car better, if nobody complained then Elon will sell you the lowest spec car he can get away with at the maximum price he thinks someone will pay for it, erm sorry, NO... in the real world most people will not pay a premium for something that isn’t as good.

I am currently in this situation, The Model 3 is a lower spec car for £12K+ MORE than what I currently drive, yes it may well be electric so it produces less emissions over the life of the car, but I refuse to switch from ICE at £ANY cost, it has to work financially as well for me.

Time will tell once I have driven one if it is for me, or if I have to wait for VAG etc to produce a car with a range over 200 miles and a spec that I am used to.
There are so many permutations possible that it is always possible to find options not on a car that exist on other equivalent or cheaper cars. If something like four grab handles is a must have for you, then fine. But it makes no sense to say WTF.

I am quite sure the Model 3 has much more going for it than the 12k cheaper car you currently drive.