Smart Summon - Historical thread for Beta version and speculation

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nonStopSwagger

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#82
Agree. I'm guessing we are within 3 months of getting it. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get it in August but I'm not counting on it. I suspect we'll have it by November at the latest.
3 months maybe, 6 months definitely

I hope its jaw dropping when it comes out. Way better than shown in prior demos. Obey lane markings, drive on the correct side/direction in the lot, etc. Might need HW3 to get it to that level, but I'm ok with waiting a little longer. Also would like it to start to do more useful things, like driving around a parking lot after it drops me off until it finds a place to park.
 

DocScott

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#83
3 months maybe, 6 months definitely

I hope its jaw dropping when it comes out. Way better than shown in prior demos. Obey lane markings, drive on the correct side/direction in the lot, etc. Might need HW3 to get it to that level, but I'm ok with waiting a little longer. Also would like it to start to do more useful things, like driving around a parking lot after it drops me off until it finds a place to park.
It seems to me unlikely that HW3 would be necessary for any of that.

The only thing HW3 does, as far as I know, is process images much, much, more quickly. So it can make better use of multiple cameras, and it can figure out what's happening at highway speed more quickly. It's necessary to have that if you're going to really trust the car to drive itself on highways (i.e. L4 autonomy).

But that's not really what you need for good enhanced summon. The speeds will be pretty slow (maybe up to 15 mph eventually), and the car mostly needs to be focussed on the direction it's going. Fast image processing just isn't that important under those circumstances.

On the other hand, the environment is extremely complex. Cars and people (and maybe runaway shopping carts) mixed together, moving in every direction, starting and stopping, not paying much attention to traffic rules. That requires a really well-trained neural net or a very impressive set of heuristics--or, most likely, both.
 

turnem

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#84
3 months maybe, 6 months definitely

I hope its jaw dropping when it comes out. Way better than shown in prior demos. Obey lane markings, drive on the correct side/direction in the lot, etc. Might need HW3 to get it to that level, but I'm ok with waiting a little longer. Also would like it to start to do more useful things, like driving around a parking lot after it drops me off until it finds a place to park.
If I had to guess... I think it will come out within 3 months and it will be underwhelming to most folks with a lot of quirks. With 9-12 months of being released it may be closer to what you are hoping for but it's not likely to be jaw dropping in the next 12 months.

I hope I'm wrong though!!
 

MelindaV

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#86
Latest look at enhanced summon in the early access program. Definitely improving but still needs a lot of work if you ask me

the video narrator seems pretty confident that self park will be part of the V10 release. I don't think that is going to be in the initial v10 release and going to get a ton of people thinking "but this random guy in a video said it would park within the lines....!"
 

airj1012

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#87
I REALLY hope they don't release this in v10, if v10 is coming in August-September. It will be a PR nightmare.

Until it can drive on the right side of the road, I REALLY don't think it should. Think of the backlash that's going to happen when people start testing it and it creates traffic jams in the parking lot. The user will have to run over to the car and jump in to resolve it. Those people that get inconvenienced will not have a good experience with Tesla.

"I got things to do and this Tesla owner just blocked me in with their car. Great! The nerve of some people. Who do they think they are?!"
 

DocScott

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#88
I REALLY hope they don't release this in v10, if v10 is coming in August-September. It will be a PR nightmare.

Until it can drive on the right side of the road, I REALLY don't think it should. Think of the backlash that's going to happen when people start testing it and it creates traffic jams in the parking lot. The user will have to run over to the car and jump in to resolve it. Those people that get inconvenienced will not have a good experience with Tesla.

"I got things to do and this Tesla owner just blocked me in with their car. Great! The nerve of some people. Who do they think they are?!"
This illustrates just how tough self-driving features are to implement.

In my part of the country, the vast majority of people pay no attention to "right side" in a parking lot, or to lanes marked for travel in a given direction. A car that did try to drive that way would itself cause some confusion.

A human adjusts pretty quickly to the driving customs and environment, both regionally (people do such-and-such in such-and-such city) and in their immediate environment (people in this parking lot are doing such-and-such). Until self-driving develops those kinds of traits it's always going to be off sometimes. (And maybe it never will; maybe autonomy over time will just flatten driving habits to become more similar across the country.)
 

MelindaV

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#89
people driving thru parking lots are not particularly good at going where they are supposed to either.
IE... I spent the day at a construction site in an existing mall where the parking lot was just repaved and slightly adjusted. This one particular area was only painted (instead of having a landscape island at the end of the parking row) so the largest firetruck can make the corner (if there isn't a car parked here). we stood there watching every single car that drove thru this area ignoring the painted lines and going straight over the parking spaces.
(the black honda is moving, the van follows at the exact same path).
img_0089-jpg.28185
 

airj1012

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#91
people driving thru parking lots are not particularly good at going where they are supposed to either.
IE... I spent the day at a construction site in an existing mall where the parking lot was just repaved and slightly adjusted. This one particular area was only painted (instead of having a landscape island at the end of the parking row) so the largest firetruck can make the corner (if there isn't a car parked here). we stood there watching every single car that drove thru this area ignoring the painted lines and going straight over the parking spaces.
(the black honda is moving, the van follows at the exact same path).
Regardless of the lines, if a human driver came face to face with another human driver, those two would be able to mitigate the situation and avoid each other. However with Tesla, if it was lined up with another car in front of it, it isn't going to break the rules and go around it by driving over painted lines. AP is great because a human drive can take over when it's not operating perfectly. That doesn't exist with Smart Summon.
 

garsh

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#92
However with Tesla, if it was lined up with another car in front of it, it isn't going to break the rules and go around it by driving over painted lines.
Maybe. Maybe not. That remains to be seen.

Autopilot will completely ignore lines while trying to avoid a collision - it has a notion of "driveable space" that it makes full use of in those situations.
 

Dogwhistle

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#93
Unless enhanced summon is WAY better than the most recent beta release, it will remain a cute party trick only to be used in empty (or at least static) parking lots with no other traffic.
 

JWardell

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#95
Anyone have any idea which EAP firmware version the car in this video is running?
The latest EAP update is still back at 19.20.4.6

Unless enhanced summon is WAY better than the most recent beta release, it will remain a cute party trick only to be used in empty (or at least static) parking lots with no other traffic.
Sure, it's a party trick, but it is jaw-dropping, and exponentially more impressive than the old summon party trick.
In reality it is quite useful, maybe not yet good enough in a busy place, but great in most lots, or in my case I use it regularly to move the car around the driveway, where I often need the car to turn.
It's a difficult decision to release, because it is a great tool to have, but of course is never ever going to be able to handle every situation, and there are millions of corner cases. So when they release it, people are going to find those and harp on them.
Perhaps they would have been better releasing in its infancy where folks did not have so much time to build their expectations and can instead appreciate the incremental improvements. Look at parking mode for example, that is still next to useless, but folks aren't riled up about it because they already understand its limitations.
 

Dogwhistle

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#97
The latest EAP update is still back at 19.20.4.6



Sure, it's a party trick, but it is jaw-dropping, and exponentially more impressive than the old summon party trick.
In reality it is quite useful, maybe not yet good enough in a busy place, but great in most lots, or in my case I use it regularly to move the car around the driveway, where I often need the car to turn.
It's a difficult decision to release, because it is a great tool to have, but of course is never ever going to be able to handle every situation, and there are millions of corner cases. So when they release it, people are going to find those and harp on them.
Perhaps they would have been better releasing in its infancy where folks did not have so much time to build their expectations and can instead appreciate the incremental improvements. Look at parking mode for example, that is still next to useless, but folks aren't riled up about it because they already understand its limitations.
I guess its OK in your own driveway, but I think most people are expecting to use it in public parking lots. As it is, it is:
1) Still too slow
2) Ignores proper side of lane to be driving on
3) Ignores other cars until close enough to treat them as obstacles
4) Likes to stop crossways when it reaches you, blocking both lanes of traffic (can’t “pull up to the curb”)

There will be much parking lot rage if the masses start using it regularly!
 

JWardell

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#98
I guess its OK in your own driveway, but I think most people are expecting to use it in public parking lots. As it is, it is:
1) Still too slow
2) Ignores proper side of lane to be driving on
3) Ignores other cars until close enough to treat them as obstacles
4) Likes to stop crossways when it reaches you, blocking both lanes of traffic (can’t “pull up to the curb”)

There will be much parking lot rage if the masses start using it regularly!
It is much faster now and I think acceptable.
It has always pulled up to me in the right orientation, but really it just goes to a point, and will be in the orientation it needs to get there. It also draws its planned route on your phone so this shouldn't be a surprise.
Yes, it is not making any attempt to perform driving norms with other traffic in a large parking lot, but it's great for a small lot, private lot, or one without traffic.
And it's absolutely a spectacular parlor trick.
Remember, at any given point, each Tesla feature is the worst it will be...they are always improving!
 

DocScott

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#99
Perhaps they would have been better releasing in its infancy where folks did not have so much time to build their expectations and can instead appreciate the incremental improvements. Look at parking mode for example, that is still next to useless, but folks aren't riled up about it because they already understand its limitations.
Elon overhyped this one early on, with his description of the car driving around the lot reading parking signs.

I always like it when Elon underhypes stuff, while still stressing the excitement of progress. At one point with SpaceX he said something like "at least it should explode for a different reason next time." He's at last gotten to that point with Smart Summon, too, saying that finally "it almost doesn't suck." That's a better tack to take, I think.
 

JWardell

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Elon overhyped this one early on, with his description of the car driving around the lot reading parking signs.

I always like it when Elon underhypes stuff, while still stressing the excitement of progress. At one point with SpaceX he said something like "at least it should explode for a different reason next time." He's at last gotten to that point with Smart Summon, too, saying that finally "it almost doesn't suck." That's a better tack to take, I think.
True, but because Tesla is constantly doubted and has billions bet against it, he has to paint the best picture. SpaceX is private so his words don't affect it as much
 
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