Question Should AP disengages AutoSteer when indicating to chage lanes

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Should AutoSteer disengage when changing lanes on a AP enabled car? (not EAP or FSD)


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Gunn

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#1
Just wanted to get an opinion on something, I have tried to search these forums to see if this discussion has come up before but alas my searching skills are lacking atm. I have also read through the manual and Tesla's website but there is no mention of AutoSteer disengaging when the turn signal is enable, only when the steering wheel is manually moved or tapping up on the gear selector.

So without further waffling, here is the question.

Should AutoSteer disengage when changing lanes on a AP enabled car?
(Not EAP or FSD)

Now, I am not talking about steering into the lane like EAP and FSD would, but simply disabling (or rather putting it on hold) the AutoSteer until the manual lane change maneuver has taken place. Once the turn signal is disengaged, AutoSteer would automatically reenable.

In my current 3 with AP, if I want to change lanes on the HW, the turn signal will disengage AutoSteer (but not TACC) without me turning the steering wheel and I have to reengage by double tap down of the gear selector.

it just seems odd that there is no mention of it anywhere by Tesla that you have to reengage after changing lanes (unless I missed it, I did say my searching skills are lacking :confused:). The reason I believe this can be implemented is that the system knows when a turn signal is enabled by making the lane markings dashed, and thus once disabled they turn back to a solid line.

Follow up thought, How would you know when to move?

I experienced this the other day when on the HW and a Merc SUV was in my blind spot. I signaled to change lanes and my 3 slowed down (with no input from me) until it was safe to change lanes, while at the time showed all the warning signs that there was someone in my blind spot. Once the Merc was far enough ahead the AutoSteer disengaged thus giving me an audio warning that it was clear. A different chime or indicator would work and then the same sound to signal it's back into AutoSteer once the manual lane change maneuver was completed.

(geez, I can waffle on :rolleyes: …)
 

garsh

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#2
there is no mention of AutoSteer disengaging when the turn signal is enable, only when the steering wheel is manually moved or tapping up on the gear selector.
That's how it works for me.

disabling (or rather putting it on hold) the AutoSteer until the manual lane change maneuver has taken place. Once the turn signal is disengaged, AutoSteer would automatically reenable.
So... are you asking if the rest of us would prefer if the car behaved in this manner?

In my current 3 with AP, if I want to change lanes on the HW, the turn signal will disengage AutoSteer...
it just seems odd that there is no mention of it anywhere by Tesla that you have to reengage after changing lanes
If your car is currently doing that, then there is a problem with your car. The turn signal does not disengage autosteer.
 

Angrew

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#4
My turn signal does disengage autosteer as well, I too have autopilot, but not EAP.

I just assumed it does that since without EAP it won't do lane changes.
 

Bigriver

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#5
If your car is currently doing that, then there is a problem with your car. The turn signal does not disengage autosteer.
The turn signal does not disengage autosteer for EAP, but I am hearing (and agreeing that it should) disengage for AP since the biggest difference with AP vs EAP is that AP doesn’t do lane changes.

My Volvo has a similar pilot assist feature to AP, and it automatically disengages the steering when the turn signal is on, then automatically re-engages when the turn signal is turned off. I agree that it would be nice if Tesla AP also automatically re-engaged. I can see safety/liability issues why they might not want to do that tho. Volvo is a lot more willy nilly with auto steering being on, and then not, without doing much to make the driver aware that it checked out for a bit or that it’s back from its break.

@Gunn, I didn’t followed what all you were saying about Tesla letting you know when you should change lanes.... with AP, I had expected that that is 100% up to you as the driver to determine when it is safe.
 

DocScott

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#6
I have AP (not EAP).

I agree that the current behavior is that Autosteer disengages when the turn signal is turned on, and doesn't reengage after the maneuver.

I also agree that I would like it if it did automatically reengage (assuming conditions allow reengagement--e.g., clear lane markings).

TACC already does something like this. If I have AP on, and step on the accelerator, that overrides the TACC speed until I stop stepping on the accelerator, at which point TACC is back in control. Of course, stepping on the brake disengages TACC and leaves it disengaged, but that seems like a sensible safety feature; if you needed to stop suddenly and TACC didn't catch the issue on its own, presumably you don't want TACC taking control again as soon as your foot's off the brake.
 

garsh

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#7
My turn signal does disengage autosteer as well, I too have autopilot, but not EAP.
The turn signal does not disengage autosteer for EAP, but I am hearing (and agreeing that it should) disengage for AP since the biggest difference with AP vs EAP is that AP doesn’t do lane changes.
I have AP (not EAP).
Thanks for the clarifications everybody! I bought my car in the EAP days, so I wasn't even considering that plain-AP would be different.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#8
From what you're describing basic AP sounds half baked
 

Gunn

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#9
So... are you asking if the rest of us would prefer if the car behaved in this manner?
Yes.

I just wanted others opinion on if a basic AP enabled car should have the ability for AutoSteer to reenable after a manual lane change has occurred. It's a pet peeve for my other half and one of many reasons why they will not drive my 3, or even consider getting theirs replaced with one.

Again, I am not asking if the car should make the lane change for you, that's the EAP's job.

I am asking if you agree that AutoSteer should not fully disengage when a manual change is made, then auto-reengage afterwards.
 

MelindaV

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#10
I just wanted others opinion on if a basic AP enabled car should have the ability for AutoSteer to reenable after a manual lane change has occurred.
I would say no. By changing lanes, you knowingly disengage autosteer. the driver should have to manually reengage when they want it to be turned back on, and not have the car decide it should be turned back on.
 

garsh

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#11
Somewhat related - I've often wished that Autopilot would allow me to temporarily take over steering just to avoid a pothole, but remain engaged and take over immediately as long as I didn't leave the lane.
 

DocScott

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#12
Basically it would be nice to have a distinction between overriding Autosteer and disengaging it. An override would be temporary; e.g. ten seconds after you're back in a recognizable Autosteer environment (roughly centered between lane markers) and your torque on the wheel drops below the override limit, Autosteer would reengage on its own.

The question then is how to tell AP to disengage. Braking would be one way. A cancel button on the touchscreen would be another. And probably the override option should only be available in locations where NOA is available (even if the car only has AP, the firmware still knows what kinds of locations are NOA-eligible); on a surface street, any excess torque by the driver should result in a disengagement.

I think doing it that way would keep it from being a safety hazard; in fact, it would probably improve safety, since I wouldn't have to mess with reengaging Autosteer myself after every lane change on a highway.
 

M3OC Rules

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#13
Tesla should just include auto lane change with the blinker on AP. Problem solved. Lumping lane change in with vaporware is lame. We should start a Twitter protest.
 

Gunn

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#15
I don't think adding in the auto-lane change is the answer.

I do think @DocScott has a good point in having it as an option where you can enable the AutoSteer to reengage once the manual change has been completed. For those not wanting it then that option isn't enabled (just like the standard or chill mode for the acceleration).

I don't want this to go into a big debate as to what EAP has and AP has and what should have which option.

Thank you everyone for your input ;)
 

M3OC Rules

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#16
how is EAP vaporware? which is essentially what the upgrade from the 'new' AP is to FSD at this time.
:) Fair enough. I almost included EAP features in parenthesis but technically what I wrote is still true. Part of the price is future level 5 autonomy. I don't think they should sell FSD until it's done and let people pay less for EAP features. Especially if they can't count the revenue until its done. What's the point? The bundling is wrong.

I believe the premise of the question is that they should make it less annoying. They have the solution but they chose to make it annoying to try to get you to pay $6k for the FSD package.
 

MelindaV

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#17
What's the point? The bundling is wrong.
well, when people could choose EAP or EAP+FSD (or nothing), people complained they wanted TACC included. Now Tesla includes not only TACC, but lane keeping. So where should be line be then?

my own opinion, is the line should be where it was before ;) nothing, EAP or FSD.
 

M3OC Rules

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#18
well, when people could choose EAP or EAP+FSD (or nothing), people complained they wanted TACC included. Now Tesla includes not only TACC, but lane keeping. So where should be line be then?

my own opinion, is the line should be where it was before ;) nothing, EAP or FSD.
I agree.
 

Gabzqc

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#19
That's how it works for me.


So... are you asking if the rest of us would prefer if the car behaved in this manner?

If your car is currently doing that, then there is a problem with your car. The turn signal does not disengage autosteer.
In my experience, if it takes 100% amount of "turning force" to disable autosteer, then with the indicator on, it takes 20% force to disable autosteer. Try it yourself and tell me im wrong. :)
 

Gabzqc

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#20
Also, I totally agree with OP, lane changing can be one of the most dangerous activities on a highway, and the you have to turn OFF Autopilot when you do it? Seems counterintuitive to me....
Basic AP should have "lane change when signal activated" , so the car will do a lane change when you tell it to, and it will CHECK for safety, but keep Autosteer on, in the new lane. Much like a lot of Gen 1 Model S' do now.