Reneging on free 400 kWh/year?

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Yanquetino

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#1
Either I missed the memo, or Tesla might be backpedaling on granting free 400 kWh of Supercharging per year to Model 3 owners. Lately there have been posts on the internet claiming that said perk only applies to Model S and X —and NOT to the Model 3. The reason is apparently because a Model 3 owner was charged for using the Supercharger at Harris Ranch. Ken has asked Elon Musk for clarification. So have I. There has been no response so far.

I wouldn't be that chuffed if Tesla had decided to exclude Model 3 owners in that arrangement. After all, at 12¢ per kWh average in the USA, it only amounts to $48/year. BUT… what DOES bother me is that it would constitute reneging on the original announcement without first notifying reservation holders with an apology. That announcement only said "Teslas" and "all owners, current and future."

I don't think (?) I am all alone in my interpretation of the announcement. Certainly Trevor also understood that the Supercharger credit program would apply to the Model 3. So… did I miss a subsequent memo? Or could it be that the Model 3 is still included in the program, but the accounting for Model 3s' 400 kWh per year has simply not yet been set up?

 

danzgator

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#2
Either I missed the memo, or Tesla might be backpedaling on granting free 400 kWh of Supercharging per year to Model 3 owners. Lately there have been posts on the internet claiming that said perk only applies to Model S and X —and NOT to the Model 3. The reason is apparently because a Model 3 owner was charged for using the Supercharger at Harris Ranch. Ken has asked Elon Musk for clarification. So have I. There has been no response so far.

I wouldn't be that chuffed if Tesla had decided to exclude Model 3 owners in that arrangement. After all, at 12¢ per kWh average in the USA, it only amounts to $48/year. BUT… what DOES bother me is that it would constitute reneging on the original announcement without first notifying reservation holders with an apology. That announcement only said "Teslas" and "all owners, current and future."

I don't think (?) I am all alone in my interpretation of the announcement. Certainly Trevor also understood that the Supercharger credit program would apply to the Model 3. So… did I miss a subsequent memo? Or could it be that the Model 3 is still included in the program, but the accounting for Model 3s' 400 kWh per year has simply not yet been set up?

I agree, reading that article in a vacuum, you can't really interpret it any other way. However, it was written almost a year ago, so may have just been their intent with regard to the vehicles that could be ordered at the time. I think the intent is now clarified on their Supercharging page that the 400 kWh only applies to the S and the X:

upload_2017-10-23_15-46-38.png
https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging
 

Yanquetino

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#3
I agree, reading that article in a vacuum, you can't really interpret it any other way. However, it was written almost a year ago, so may have just been their intent with regard to the vehicles that could be ordered at the time. I think the intent is now clarified on their Supercharging page that the 400 kWh only applies to the S and the X:
Then Tesla HAS reneged on the original announcement without first informing Model 3 reservation holders with an explanation, let alone an apology. THAT bothers me. I'm sure the vast majority of us took the announcement at face value when it stated:

"As we approach the launch of Model 3, this update will enable us to greatly expand our Supercharger Network, providing customers with the best possible user experience and bringing sustainable transport to even more people."
 

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Then Tesla HAS reneged on the original announcement without first informing Model 3 reservation holders with an explanation, let alone an apology. THAT bothers me. I'm sure the vast majority of us took the announcement at face value when it stated:

"As we approach the launch of Model 3, this update will enable us to greatly expand our Supercharger Network, providing customers with the best possible user experience and bringing sustainable transport to even more people."
Point is the expansion of the SC network will also greatly expand our experience even if I pay for it. I’m totally fine with that.

Remember it is still cheaper than paying for gas and, by the way, I don’t remember any ICE manufacturer ever offering free gas to someone buying their car... ;)
 

danzgator

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#5
Then Tesla HAS reneged on the original announcement without first informing Model 3 reservation holders with an explanation, let alone an apology. THAT bothers me. I'm sure the vast majority of us took the announcement at face value when it stated:

"As we approach the launch of Model 3, this update will enable us to greatly expand our Supercharger Network, providing customers with the best possible user experience and bringing sustainable transport to even more people."
It's a 1 year old announcement. I'm sure there's one before that that says that all Teslas will have Supercharging for free for life, but we're not getting that either. They don't OWE us anything except a spot in line to buy a car. We have a refundable deposit on a car, with no contract. If you don't like the terms of the contract, don't sign it, and you have a refund available to you.
 

Yanquetino

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#6
Point is the expansion of the SC network will also greatly expand our experience even if I pay for it. I’m totally fine with that.

Remember it is still cheaper than paying for gas and, by the way, I don’t remember any ICE manufacturer ever offering free gas to someone buying their car... ;)
As I said, I'm NOT chuffed about paying for every Supercharging kWh I might use. It's the lack of open, honest, up front, transparent communication about changing the policy that irks me. As a LEAF owner, it has been my biggest complaint with Nissan, and I had hoped better from Tesla.
 

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#8
Y'think? It's not bait-and-switch to state a feature of the car, but then eliminate that feature without informing reservation holders? They don't OWE us that courtesy? Nice.
Bait and switch? Maybe you should google that. They’re not soliciting your deposit with the posting. It’s not an advertisement it’s a news update.
 

garsh

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what DOES bother me is that it would constitute reneging on the original announcement without first notifying reservation holders with an apology.
It's pretty clear to me that the announcement is for people purchasing Teslas before & after the date given, so they know how the program is changing. A reservation is not a purchase. I'm sure they'll have a newer update to the program for Model 3 owners by the time we get to place orders.

Heck, it doesn't even apply to Tesla Roadster owners, since those cars aren't capable of supercharging.
 

Yanquetino

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#10
Not bait-and-switch? Announce a new Supercharger policy of free 400 kWh per year for "Teslas" purchased by "all owners, current and future," so well over 400 customers place reservations with that understanding, and then a year-and-a-half later they hear: "Surprise! Model 3 owners actually have to pay for any and all Supercharging. Period." Call it what you like, it is not what early reservation holders understood when they signed up. At least I didn't. Nor (from what I can tell) did Trevor. Or Ken. Or probably hundreds of other reservation holders. And again: it's the principle I'm talking about —not the numbers or the costs.
 

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#12
Not bait-and-switch? Announce a new Supercharger policy of free 400 kWh per year for "Teslas" purchased by "all owners, current and future,"
You're using that quote out of context. The "all owners, current and future" refers to the utility of the supercharger network itself. It did not refer to the free credits.
 

Frank99

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#13
>>>it's the principle I'm talking about

I agree with you. This is an area where Tesla being so tight-lipped about the Model 3 has caused unnecessary friction with their customer base. They are certainly aware of the conflicting promises and statements that have been made, and they should be willing to step up and say "We're sorry about the confusion we caused, but here's the real plan". Frankly, I don't think they have a responsibility to do that BEFORE they get to the point of asking for a configuration payment, but it would be a good customer-relation move to do so. For me, I've decided to discount all Tesla's early statements about features, costs, range, buying process, etc., and am waiting for the day they ask me to configure to expect this kind of detailed information.
 

KarenRei

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#14
Not bait-and-switch? Announce a new Supercharger policy of free 400 kWh per year for "Teslas" purchased by "all owners, current and future," so well over 400 customers place reservations with that understanding
Did you - and I must emphasize these words, because they're critical -

PURCHASE A TESLA

.... based on a belief that those were the terms?

No, you did not. A company is - and I must emphasize this as well - FREE TO CHANGE THEIR TERMS FOR FUTURE SALES WHENEVER THEY WANT. This is standard practice for all companies, and more to the point, must be; no company (let alone in a rapidly changing field) can keep their price and feature lists constant for eternity. A company cannot of course go back and change the terms of past sales, but I'll reiterate: did you....

PURCHASE A TESLA

... based on that information? Is it possible that any reasonable person could possibly today purchase a Model 3 while thinking that they'll get 400kWh of supercharger credits? No, it's not. Because people don't go around reading year-old contract terms that you have to dig up while ignoring the present ones that the company actually presents.

Now, you did make a Refundable Deposit. Which I must reiterate, is Not A Purchase, and does not bind you or the company to anything except for a place in line. What terms governed your reservation?

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/model_3_reservation_agreement.pdf

Did you bother reading it?

While this Reservation secures the approximate delivery priority within your region, it does not constitute the purchase or order of a vehicle.
I find this whole argument ridiculous. It's perfectly normal for sales terms to be presented for "All sales after DATE will have terms A, B, and C". This does not in any way, shape or form mean that these terms will never change. It's the current valid terms as of DATE, until they're revised. Again: this is perfectly normal and widespread, and it amazes me that anybody could be shocked that a company's sales terms may change from year to year, particularly as they're introducing a new product, and particularly when the product is in an entirely different market segment.

And the most ridiculous part? You know how much 400kWh are worth at a supercharger? $80. You're creating this whole ruckus about $80 per year. On a car with a base price of $35k and average anticipated sales price of $45k. Was $80 the guiding factor in you placing your order?
 
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SoFlaModel3

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#15
I really don’t see an issue here. Also let’s wait to see what happens with customer cars. I’ve also thought for a while supercharging credits may be tethered to the “something special” for the 1st day reservations and/or pre-unveil reservations.
 

Yanquetino

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#16
This does not in any way, shape or form mean that these terms will never change.
Of course! I never said Tesla couldn't change the terms. Just be open, honest, and let reservation holders know. Out of basic courtesy.

And the most ridiculous part? You know how much 400kWh are worth at a supercharger? $80. You're creating this whole ruckus about $80 per year.
Sigh. I guess you have jumped in mid-thread. As I tried to clarify from the outset:

I wouldn't be that chuffed if Tesla had decided to exclude Model 3 owners in that arrangement. After all, at 12¢ per kWh average in the USA, it only amounts to $48/year. BUT… what DOES bother me is that it would constitute reneging on the original announcement without first notifying reservation holders with an apology.
"Ridiculous"? A "ruckus"? Sigh…. I'll just STFU, then.
 

RICK M

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#17
You don't dangle a carrot in front of 450,000 reservation holders and the draw it back. If it's true, it doesn't bode well for Musk and Tesla as a whole. ..I'm considering purchasing a used model "S" with free lifetime charging. It will run close to the price of the initial production cost of the model 3. I was really turned off by the $35,000 model not being available until late next year. Just saying.....
 

SoFlaModel3

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#18
Guys, let's try to keep things civil here -- we all have different motivations for our purchase of this vehicle.

A few thoughts that I will share from my perspective:
  • Nothing is final until we sign our own purchase agreements -- with Tesla things change and they change quickly. Frankly often they change for the better for the consumer (something that can't be said for all companies)
  • They are well within their right to change things as they go -- having a goal of free unlimited supercharging was aspirational. It creates a problem -- people abuse that privilege. Supercharging is mostly intended for long distance travel and giving it away for free hurts that purpose when people use it to top off constantly since it's "free"
  • Switching the credits model is/was smart to prevent what I mentioned above
  • Not giving free credits to a car that in short order doubles/triples the existing fleet probably smart
  • I spend ~$1,800/year on gas right now -- with my projections, I will spend ~$350/year on home electricity to charge my Model 3. I think I can swing a few bucks here and there for the 1-2 road trips/year I will take in the car

Just remember when we put down reservations on Model 3 they never in their wildest dreams imagined having as many backorders as they have right now. They thought the backlog would be half if not less and that they'd take twice as long to get the cars out. That would have allowed the supercharger network to mature further instead of being slammed with the onslaught of cars.

I feel like getting our cars earlier is a small price to pay to sacrifice a few bucks in supercharger credits.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#19
You don't dangle a carrot in front of 450,000 reservation holders and the draw it back. If it's true, it doesn't bode well for Musk and Tesla as a whole. ..I'm considering purchasing a used model "S" with free lifetime charging. It will run close to the price of the initial production cost of the model 3. I was really turned off by the $35,000 model not being available until late next year. Just saying.....
Specific to the price of the car, I don't think they ever dangled something that wasn't real. It's an ~3 month wait for the base model vehicle. It's not as if it's never arriving.
 

Uricasha

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#20
Either I missed the memo, or Tesla might be backpedaling on granting free 400 kWh of Supercharging per year to Model 3 owners. Lately there have been posts on the internet claiming that said perk only applies to Model S and X —and NOT to the Model 3. The reason is apparently because a Model 3 owner was charged for using the Supercharger at Harris Ranch. Ken has asked Elon Musk for clarification. So have I. There has been no response so far.

I wouldn't be that chuffed if Tesla had decided to exclude Model 3 owners in that arrangement. After all, at 12¢ per kWh average in the USA, it only amounts to $48/year. BUT… what DOES bother me is that it would constitute reneging on the original announcement without first notifying reservation holders with an apology. That announcement only said "Teslas" and "all owners, current and future."

I don't think (?) I am all alone in my interpretation of the announcement. Certainly Trevor also understood that the Supercharger credit program would apply to the Model 3. So… did I miss a subsequent memo? Or could it be that the Model 3 is still included in the program, but the accounting for Model 3s' 400 kWh per year has simply not yet been set up?

You make a good point. A lot of people have also purchased the full self driving feature. I feel bad for those people.....

Tesla has been criticized from time to time for being tight-lipped about what they're doing but I imagine it's a lot like politics. The less you tell people, the less they complain about stupid s$#@, especially on a car they can't even buy.

I give Tesla a pass because it's a badass car from an amazing company. Case in point; When they moved the semi event, they offered to reimburse people who already purchased non-refundable tickets. They didn't have to do that....

So I wouldn't get caught up over $48/year on a 1 year old statement when you haven't purchased the car.
 
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