Relationship Between Charging Speed and Adoption

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#1
The reality is that after owning and using an EV for 6 months and having home charging, you quickly realize charging FUD is complete nonsense.

Road trips result in me stopping earlier then necessary because I'm tired of sitting and want food, restroom, etc. So really the range is too long as well.

Before I can finish up in the restroom and order/eat my food, my iPhone is alerting me about idling fees because I'm nearly back to 80-90%. And it was only 20-30 mins.

Charging is already too fast. Making it faster won't increase adoption rate, only educating buyers will.
 

FRC

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#2
I agree, for me charging speeds are fine as is. But, I'm guessing that, like me, supercharging is not your primary charging source. I have no doubt that those who have no home/work charging solution would strenuously disagree with your position.

As to your second point, I'd argue that faster charge times will lead to wider adoption because, just like you and me, people only learn the unimportance of charging speeds through ownership. Those with terminal range anxiety won't get over it through education. They'll get over it through ownership which won't happen until they believe they can charge quickly.
 

MelindaV

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#3
As to your second point, I'd argue that faster charge times will lead to wider adoption because, just like you and me, people only learn the unimportance of charging speeds through ownership. Those with terminal range anxiety won't get over it through education. They'll get over it through ownership which won't happen until they believe they can charge quickly.
perfect example of this came up a few days ago in my office. last thursday I took a coworker along to a job site across the state. Last Supercharger station was just a little over the halfway point. So it requires stopping there on the way down to charge enough to be able to return to it (15 minutes or so with a walk down to the adjacent McD for a drink and use their restroom), then of course charge on the return trip to be able to get back (went to the adjacent pub for a quick dinner - actually bumped up the charge limit while sitting there waiting for coworker to finish eating to prevent idle fees).
Next morning I get into the office and the guy the sits next to the one that went along first says "so I hear you had to sit around waiting for the car to charge", I look toward the other guy and smartass continues with "just kidding, he didnt say that at all". So he thought he was being funny by implying 'all the time it takes' to charge while on the road.
 

Ed Woodrick

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#4
Just finished a trip from ATL to Dayton and back. I did stop by a Supercharger in Dayton on 2 evenings and spent about 20 minutes each. But on the road, the car was ready before I was.
About to head from ATL to Cape Canaveral, expect the same thing. My belly takes longer to fill and bladder takes longer to empty than the car takes to charge.

Time dedicated to charging over 2,000 miles (~40 hours), less than an hour.
 

ATechGuy

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#5
I agree with the previous posts, but would like to add that EV charging *does* take time when you don't plan *a little*. The bio-break is one thing, but another is that you really just need to get some place, and if you didn't plan ahead, you find yourself with only a 'half-tank' and need to go further. The body is usually very capable of driving through a half-tank, but at that point, you're going to need juice, and it may just be that you need to stop even earlier since the "next" SC site is a tad more than a half-tank away. So, now you're stopping after only say, an hour, and you're down to a third left, but now you're going to need to top it off in order to get to the destination. Unless this stop is coinciding with a meal, you're probably just going to get to know asteroids a bit more, and kill an hour charging. With proper planning (not needed with ICE) the stop wouldn't have been necessary. So, if anything, that's really the difference for me--EV require a bit of planning when you happen to make trips where you are going beyond your tank reserves, an ICE vehicle doesn't. I firmly believe this is why Elon recommends charging the car to the upper end of the "daily" range every night, if only to minimize this example situation as much as possible.
 

mswlogo

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#6
The reality is that after owning and using an EV for 6 months and having home charging, you quickly realize charging FUD is complete nonsense.

Road trips result in me stopping earlier then necessary because I'm tired of sitting and want food, restroom, etc. So really the range is too long as well.

Before I can finish up in the restroom and order/eat my food, my iPhone is alerting me about idling fees because I'm nearly back to 80-90%. And it was only 20-30 mins.

Charging is already too fast. Making it faster won't increase adoption rate, only educating buyers will.
If you need more time, just set it to 100%. You'll have plenty of time. But don't do this if it's time based charging ;)
 

GDN

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#7
It's about that education and a little about faster charging. Don't forget that every one that has owned a car and needed to gas up think this "refill" process should be a 5 to 10 minute task. So the concept of a 30 to 45 minute change is asinine and takes FOREVER. They don't understand the concept of doing it at home, but that will negate 95% of any "Local" fill ups they ever needed anyway, so in this case it is about education.

For those on the road though I will say that the charging must still get faster. Mainly because if everyone were driving an EV, then there simply aren't enough charging locations to handle the need for those on trips or long commutes. Sure more charging locations will be built, but if every vehicle was electric and needed one we don't even scratch the surface today for what would be needed. So the faster the charge the more vehicles you can charge at any location. Faster is needed for true wide adoption.
 
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#8
I agree, for me charging speeds are fine as is. But, I'm guessing that, like me, supercharging is not your primary charging source. I have no doubt that those who have no home/work charging solution would strenuously disagree with your position.
Yeah my charging at home is on a 60A circuit so charging is a total non-issue. Even if I run it down to < 10% after a crazy long day/trip, 5 hours of sleep and it's charged back to 80%.

I've never woken up forgetting to charge. I walk past the charger on the way out of the garage. Muscle memory to just plug it in. I've done at least 90% of my charging at home.
 

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#9
Charging may or may not need to get faster but it needs to get better. Some examples of that are charging in cold weather, not getting full power on a SC or ICE cars blocking stalls.

In the winter, it’s obviously beneficial to charge at a SC at the end of a trip than the beginning but what if you can’t or forget to? Tesla should create a way to pre-heat the battery (through the app) when the car is parked. And not just keep it happy, keep it as warm as the user wants. That’s limited with the Model 3 but this is one area where people will become frustrated moving from an ICE to EV.

Also, I’ve been to a few SC stations where the power is limited to 50kW for no reason. Not due to cold weather and not due to another car. The issue is reported to Tesla via phone but checking back on the reports from PlugShare indicate Tesla isn’t very quick to fix any issues.

Lastly, imagine you’re low on power, you see there’s one stall open and when you get there it’s blocked by an ICE car. Luckily its only happened to me once but it’s frustrating. The owner wasn’t around and the sign said something like 30 min general parking. For a new EV owner this would be a frustrating experience.
 

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#10
Lastly, imagine you’re low on power, you see there’s one stall open and when you get there it’s blocked by an ICE car. Luckily its only happened to me once but it’s frustrating. The owner wasn’t around and the sign said something like 30 min general parking. For a new EV owner this would be a frustrating experience.
The two gas stations I filled up at when I had fossil cars NEVER had any open stalls upon arrival. And the other gas stations in the area cost a lot more. Generally, a stall would open up within 5-10 minutes, about the same as how long you might wait if all the Supercharger stalls were full.

Our two Model 3's total 16,000 miles and we have less than an hour of Supercharging between both cars (even though one of them has free Supercharging for life). Neither one of us has ever found all Supercharging stalls taken.
 

PNWmisty

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#12
I guess you don’t drive much in southern CA. Holidays can be a problem too.
Not only that, we do over 99% of our charging at home while we sleep.

There are still too many fossil powered cars up here in Washington. That's why you have to wait to gas up (unless you want to pay exorbitant prices). Oh, wait, even the prices at the "cheap" stations are exorbitant compared to electricity.

I'll breathe easier when there are lines at the Superchargers! ;)
 

MachV

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#13
as the phrase goes:
the length of 1 minute depends on which side of the bathroom door you are.

if people are waiting in line for charge, then 10 minutes could seem like a long time to wait to fill up.

the point is that 20 min may seem too fast because you don't have time to get your burger. But its a long time to wait in line at the "gas station" for the next pump
 
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Greg Appelt

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#14
Just finished a trip from ATL to Dayton and back. I did stop by a Supercharger in Dayton on 2 evenings and spent about 20 minutes each. But on the road, the car was ready before I was.
About to head from ATL to Cape Canaveral, expect the same thing. My belly takes longer to fill and bladder takes longer to empty than the car takes to charge.

Time dedicated to charging over 2,000 miles (~40 hours), less than an hour.
See you at the Cape - heading over there in about 30 min from Tampa. Shiloh restaurant has a great view!
 

Greg Appelt

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#15
I agree with the previous posts, but would like to add that EV charging *does* take time when you don't plan *a little*. The bio-break is one thing, but another is that you really just need to get some place, and if you didn't plan ahead, you find yourself with only a 'half-tank' and need to go further. The body is usually very capable of driving through a half-tank, but at that point, you're going to need juice, and it may just be that you need to stop even earlier since the "next" SC site is a tad more than a half-tank away. So, now you're stopping after only say, an hour, and you're down to a third left, but now you're going to need to top it off in order to get to the destination. Unless this stop is coinciding with a meal, you're probably just going to get to know asteroids a bit more, and kill an hour charging. With proper planning (not needed with ICE) the stop wouldn't have been necessary. So, if anything, that's really the difference for me--EV require a bit of planning when you happen to make trips where you are going beyond your tank reserves, an ICE vehicle doesn't. I firmly believe this is why Elon recommends charging the car to the upper end of the "daily" range every night, if only to minimize this example situation as much as possible.
Sounds like you could use ABetterRoutePlanner dotcom.
 

iChris93

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#16
I disagree. Going on long road trips, parked overnight without a charger, warrants faster charging. It is doable as is, but faster charging would make for a better experience.
 

gary in NY

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#17
On my road trip last week, I had supercharger rates as high as 145Kw. This was in Pennsylvania (Harrisburg and Scranton). That, and destination charging (L1), made the trip a breeze. In one sense, it was too quick-we hardly had time to eat. But the obvious quick(er) turn around seems to be impressive to most ICE drivers, many of who's only reference is how fast they can refuel and get back on the road. I've kind of lost that point of reference, and now enjoy the journey as much as the destination. I also found it interesting that we only saw one other Tesla (Model S) during our recharge stops. There was a Volt charging at the public charger next to the supercharges in Scranton.
 
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#20
I agree that charging speeds are sufficient on an individual car basis, but what the "faster speeds" solution will address is the following two items...

1. Supercharger congestion - in high traffic areas, this will allow for faster turnover of cars reducing waiting times. Even it takes you 5 minutes to supercharge, it could take an hour waiting for others to finish
2. Those drivers which do not wish to stop for 20+ minutes every 2-3 hours. One of my coworkers drove 5hrs home to NJ and was telling me how happy he was to stop only 5 minutes to grab gas and food for the car. These are the subset of people that would also want this to be sold on the "road trip" capabilities of EVs.