Question Regional energy plan changes for home charging

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Do you get an off-peak rate for home charging?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • No

    Votes: 8 72.7%
  • Don’t charge at home

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    11
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#1
philadelphia area PECO customer - does anyone know if there is an off-peak energy program/rate available for peco customers looking to charge at night? I just called PECO cust svc but they didn’t seem to know anything. Best I could get was that current rates were $0.068 per KWh. If I am doing my math right, that would mean that an SR+ with at least 20% battery left, charging to 85% (approx 32.5 KW) would cost approx $2.21 per charge. Is that a correct estimate? Should I be doing better on energy rate? What should I ask for?

Thanks!
 

Silvermagic3

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#2
WOW ~7 cents a kWh! The cheapest rate in CA on an EV plan is 13 cents.

According to Electricity Local your rate is very low for your state with is probably why there are no discounted rates:
  • Residential electricity rates in Pennsylvania average 12.75¢/kWh, which ranks the state 16th in the nation.
  • The average residential electricity rate of 12.75¢/kWh in PA is 7.32% greater than the national average residential rate of 11.88¢/kWh.
 

Ed Woodrick

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#3
Don't forget, you have to power the remainder of the house as well. Air conditioners use a lot of power.

Is $2.21 expensive? It certainly sounds cheaper than gas. Do you really user 65% of the battery daily?
 
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#4
Thanks for the research guys, good to know I have decent rates. And no, I won’t be driving that much every day, and $2.21 is lower than gas, but my electric bill is always fairly high (usually $300-$400/mo) so I just wanted to make sure i was doing everything that I could.
 

Frully

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#5
That's a pretty reasonable rate. I pay similar, but end up paying approximately the same in fees, so ballpark 14 cents/kwh (CAD)

Assuming the charging at 240V is approximately 90% efficienct, my 75kWh battery pack takes about 82kWh to fill 'at the meter'.
Granted, it's rare to charge to 100% then down to 0%, but the math works out kwh to kwh thoughout various charge levels. Energy is energy after all.

Assuming we can trust the estimates, I should get about 500km (yay metric) for those 82kWh...or 164Wh per km, which is close enough to reality.
At 14 cents, those 164wH cost 0.02296 cents per km, or $11.48 CAD to 'fill'.

At 10L/100km my gas car would have taken 50L of fuel to do 500km, costing about $50 CAD.

Yes, that is an extremely cheap fill compared to gasoline.
 

garsh

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#6
my electric bill is always fairly high (usually $300-$400/mo)
Wow!
How is your electric bill that high with such a low rate?

Mine maxed out at $152 for August (I pay actual amount each month - no averaging).
And my rate is just a tad lower than yours: 6.231¢/kWh
 
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#7
Wow!
How is your electric bill that high with such a low rate?

Mine maxed out at $152 for August (I pay actual amount each month - no averaging).
And my rate is just a tad lower than yours: 6.231¢/kWh

Sorry, 1/3rd of that is gas, but its still higher than some homes in our neighborhood. Never been able to figure out why.
 

garsh

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Sorry, 1/3rd of that is gas, but its still higher than some homes in our neighborhood. Never been able to figure out why.
It might be worth getting something that can measure & record electricity use at the panel.
One possibility (I use something different myself):
Amazon product
And maybe a kill-o-watt meter for measuring individual appliances. There seem to be some cheaper generic knock-offs available now too.
Amazon product Amazon product Amazon product Amazon product
 

ajdelange

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#9
Sorry, 1/3rd of that is gas, but its still higher than some homes in our neighborhood. Never been able to figure out why.
That's easy. If your bill is $300 and 1/3 of that is for gas then $200 is for electricity and 200/0.068 = 2941.18 kWh. 3 MWh/mo is a pretty hefty draw but is not at all unreasonable for a medium sized house with electric based (direct or heat pump) heating ( I average 3.316/mo). Note that if you are driving the average 13,000 mi/yr at 300 Wh/mi and 90% efficient charging that amounts to about 360 kWh/mo.

Your utility bills should tell you how many kWh you are being billed for each period. If you really want to see where the juice is going there are various systems available which monitor the current draw of individual appliances or circuits in your house.
 

MelindaV

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#10
just as a point of reference, my 3bedroom house (less than 10 years old, so energy efficient), all electric, with electric rates at a flat 8 cents + $12 service fee (no other transmission or delivery per kWh fees),,, the highest bill I've had since driving the Tesla and over one of our coldest months in recent history, was only $188.92.

the average per day whole house usage was 64kWh/day, and 10 of that was the car, so 54kWh/day to heat and power the house. Compared to a low (summer, non A/C, month), my household usage is in the teens (13-18 per day). SO..... seeing these numbers at more than 2x my worst month numbers on a house WITH gas is more than shocking. I hope this is a very large house, or very drafty, or something to compensate for that much electricity usage.
 

garsh

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#11
3 MWh/mo is a pretty hefty draw but is not at all unreasonable for a medium sized house with electric based (direct or heat pump) heating
He said that he has gas, which implies that the house has gas heating.
 

ajdelange

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Shouldn't be shocking. I have a house that it not particularly large (though it is not small) that is partially heated by gas but mostly by a heat pump. That heat pump has capacity of 8 tons. Assuming it runs a 40% duty cycle on overage in a cold month with COP = 3.4 we'd use ((0.4*8*12000/3412)/3.4)*24*31 = 2462.73 kWh just for that heat pump. In that house the background draw is about 1.8 kW which amounts to a little over 1 MWh per month. Thus I see usage of over 3 MW/mo quite often in the cold season.

In our summer house (smaller) we use around 1.5 MWh/mo in the summer and closer to 2 MWh/mo moving into the fall. It also has gas. Again the big grabber is the heat pumps (though they are not used at all in the summer as A/C isn't needed here. Background load for this house is right around 1 kW implying 0.75 MWh/mo for just that. Tesla charging load has averaged 0.356 MWh/mo at that house.
 

ajdelange

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He said that he has gas, which implies that the house has gas heating.
He probably doesn't use gas for A/C. As noted I have gas too. Use it for cooking and hot water and some heating but still feed lots of kWh into heat pumps for heating and A/C. The point being that his electrical demand is going to depend on many factors like the tightness of his house, how he heats and/or cools, his local climate, whether he is growing pot in his basement or not... and, of course, how far he drives his Tesla.
 

garsh

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He probably doesn't use gas for A/C.
Neither do I, and my electric bill was only $150 in August.

But you're right, there's a lot we don't know about his house. It could be 4000 sq ft and 100 years old with vaulted ceilings, original windows, and no insulation in the walls.
 
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Wow, awesome feedback guys. Since we are down a rabbit hole here, my house is 3200 sq ft, 16 yo, with central air. It likely has an inefficiently built ac system (Developer has been sued before), which I have always assumed was the culprit to some degree, however our neighbors all have the same AC systems and their bills still seem to be lower.

but thanks for the help estimating costs. Much appreciated!!
 

ajdelange

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#16
Start by replacing/cleaning the air handler's filter(s). Then go outside and clean off the condenser fins. Or have a tech do these and check the charge. You might very well be surprised by how much difference this can make. Having the ducting cleaned and/or sealed can make a difference too but be careful as shoddy duct cleaning companies seem to employ half the population of the subcontinent these days.
 

Frully

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Neat article. I would love to see a comparison done in-situ with the original fan being used.

Their methodology might work in their controlled lab setting but by controlling everything they took out the 'controlled' variable of the actual AC unit fan. By just putting sensors on the high in and low out they could have tested real world machines. The first photo looks like they damaged the fins getting the dirt off...it goes from well spaced fins to smeared fins.
 

ajdelange

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#19
You might want to skip that step.
http://theconversation.com/skip-thi...nser-probably-wont-make-it-work-better-113158[/QUOTE]

Start by looking at the guy's data. While he makes the assertion that cleaning your coils probably won't make any difference his own data don't show that. He has 11 data points (hardly enough to draw statistically sufficient conclusions from) which show that in the majority of cases (6) he studied cleaning does make an improvement. Now look at his pictures. As Frully pointed out it looks from the first as if the cleaning reduced the air flow by bending over the fins. What would that exchanger have shown had the fins been properly cleaned and then combed? In the second picture the one where he claims cleaning caused 7% degradation, the fins are so badly mashed together that I am not at all surprised that it's performance is well below spec. This guy is a PHD. He should know better!

Not convinced? Put a gauge set on your machine and check the high side pressure. Now put a piece of cardboard over part of the condenser fins. Does the high side pressure go up or down? When the high side pressure goes up does the compressor work harder or easier? Assuming subcooling is at its correct value when you start what happens to the subcooling when you block airflow?

Or, if you don't have a gauge set (note: if you don't don't just go out and buy one and hook it up as you need to know a few things to do this safely and properly) put a clamp on ammeter on one of the compressor power leads and block some airflow. Does the current draw go up or down?

Now if you aren't already convinced that life is weird my SO said to me as I was typing this "Did you know your bottom dresser drawer is full of wires?" I said "No" and went to see. It was actually an assortment of refrigeration hoses that is the hoses used to connect the equipment used to service air conditioners and heat pumps. Part of the weirdness is the coincidence. The main part is what the hell are a bunch of refrigeration hoses doing in my dresser drawer?