rear seat release latch discussion

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4701

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#1
Even though changing that mechanism is a big overhaul of rear seat, I still hope Tesla does that.
Again.. once again.. they fail... with random comfort feature.
They failed with cupholders and grab handles on S/X. Now they fail with rear seat folding on Model 3.
BMW had those handles at the same place like Model 3 has now, but they were lockable
with a mechanical key. Later, they moved the handles in the trunk. It's even more simpler and convenient.

Notice two keyholes.

Up until that time, we might consider trunk hidden compartment safe enough.
Even though it should be possible to open the trunk from inside, it's still unlikely anybody will do so much magic.

PS: due to rear seat release handles being in the trunk, I believe emergency trunk release is not mandatory any more.
I might check that on BMW later.
 

skygraff

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#2
Even though changing that mechanism is a big overhaul of rear seat, I still hope Tesla does that.
Again.. once again.. they fail... with random comfort feature.
They failed with cupholders and grab handles on S/X. Now they fail with rear seat folding on Model 3.
BMW had those handles at the same place like Model 3 has now, but they were lockable
with a mechanical key. Later, they moved the handles in the trunk. It's even more simpler and convenient.

Notice two keyholes.

Up until that time, we might consider trunk hidden compartment safe enough.
Even though it should be possible to open the trunk from inside, it's still unlikely anybody will do so much magic.

PS: due to rear seat release handles being in the trunk, I believe emergency trunk release is not mandatory any more.
I might check that on BMW later.
Very useful.

As a longtime hatchback owner (last trunk was on a 1983 Chevy Cavalier Cadet), I've become accustomed to being able to release the seats from the front or the back and having no sense of real security (that same Chevy had its trunk jimmied open and was the only time I've experienced that kind of theft).

Thinking on the utility, I also hope Tesla will move the releases to inside the trunk since, more often than not, I lower my current seats from the back while loading (may not be as big an issue in a 4-door as a 2/3-door, though). From a security and safety standpoint, that would certainly be the better solution even though I doubt they'd eliminate the emergency release since those have become almost standardized so a trapped person doesn't get confused.

In the meantime, if there's a way to make some kind of lockable blocking device which could make the existing design less attractive and clearly (through the window) troublesome, I'd be somewhat tempted to use it. More likely not to for convenience.

Maybe Tesla could remove the physical latches and replace them with electronic ones controlled by the UI; like the glove box and frunk.
 

MichelT3

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#3
Even though changing that mechanism is a big overhaul of rear seat, I still hope Tesla does that.
Again.. once again.. they fail... with random comfort feature.
They failed with cupholders and grab handles on S/X. Now they fail with rear seat folding on Model 3.
BMW had those handles at the same place like Model 3 has now, but they were lockable
with a mechanical key. Later, they moved the handles in the trunk. It's even more simpler and convenient.

Notice two keyholes.

Up until that time, we might consider trunk hidden compartment safe enough.
Even though it should be possible to open the trunk from inside, it's still unlikely anybody will do so much magic.

PS: due to rear seat release handles being in the trunk, I believe emergency trunk release is not mandatory any more.
I might check that on BMW later.
Really, to call this "a fail"?
I have had release latches on the top of rear backrests at all my cars and have never had any problem with that. Rather exaggerated 'problem' in my mind. As if searching for negative points.
I accept that opinions may differ. Just putting forward a different view.
 

Michael Russo

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#4
Really, to call this "a fail"?
I have had release latches on the top of rear backrests at all my cars and have never had any problem with that. Rather exaggerated 'problem' in my mind. As if searching for negative points.
I accept that opinions may differ. Just putting forward a different view.
How about an ‘area for improvement’, @arnis ? ;)
 
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4701

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#5
Well no. If the handle was in the trunk but slightly too far, then bringing it closer to the opening would be "improvement". But handle is not even there. And reason it to be not there is ridiculous (it requires slightly more assembly at the main line, instead of seat assembly line and/or they just didn't think enough).

A fail, or... a mistake.. is still more "precise". Like I said, it is more expensive and it is less convenient. So why?

We should not be unreasonably polite to something/somebody JUST because he/she/it is our friend.
Critical thinking.. does not allow emotional bonding between two parties.
as if searching for negative points.
Well YES. If you don't do that, then... it is like optimism bias but to a vehicle (or expectation about specific vehicle)

I have had release latches on the top of rear backrests at all my cars
Therefore you can't compare two different versions as you have not had the other method. There is nothing wrong with 5-speed automatic. It works. And you don't have to shift gears! Until you try electric. Just an example. Just for learning.
PS: My both vehicles have release handles at the seat. I don't like that. At least I can reach those handles from the trunk. Though too far. I've tried handles in "the correct place" and it's the best.

If putting handles in the trunk would be something new (like having a frunk) then NOT doing that is just letting a good idea walk away.
But handles have been there for years FOR A REASON (direct competitor BMW 3-series for example). There is no need to invent a bicycle. Tesla just did that. And it isn't the best bike on the market for no apparent reason. It's not like this position is patented:D
 

MichelT3

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#6
Well no. If the handle was in the trunk but slightly too far, then bringing it closer to the opening would be "improvement". But handle is not even there. And reason it to be not there is ridiculous (it requires slightly more assembly at the main line, instead of seat assembly line and/or they just didn't think enough).

A fail, or... a mistake.. is still more "precise". Like I said, it is more expensive and it is less convenient. So why?

We should not be unreasonably polite to something/somebody JUST because he/she/it is our friend.
Critical thinking.. does not allow emotional bonding between two parties.

Well YES. If you don't do that, then... it is like optimism bias but to a vehicle (or expectation about specific vehicle)


Therefore you can't compare two different versions as you have not had the other method. There is nothing wrong with 5-speed automatic. It works. And you don't have to shift gears! Until you try electric. Just an example. Just for learning.
PS: My both vehicles have release handles at the seat. I don't like that. At least I can reach those handles from the trunk. Though too far. I've tried handles in "the correct place" and it's the best.

If putting handles in the trunk would be something new (like having a frunk) then NOT doing that is just letting a good idea walk away.
But handles have been there for years FOR A REASON (direct competitor BMW 3-series for example). There is no need to invent a bicycle. Tesla just did that. And it isn't the best bike on the market for no apparent reason. It's not like this position is patented:D
Sure, you can demand anything which Model 3 doesn't have and try and think up even more things. Then you can pose that it's a defect / failure that Model 3 doesn't have that. And then you can pose that Model 3 is getting so expensive and that production isn't getting up to speed.
I'm sorry, but that is completely ridiculous. Model 3 is what it is for now. They are going through production hell, there is a tremendous backlog, and Tesla can't realise it's own production prognosis. So Tesla certainly won't be making ANY substantial changes in the hardware, during the coming years.
 
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4701

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#7
And this is exactly what I said. It has been done. Incorrectly. A fail. End of the line. No place for improvement due to reasons you named. It had to be done correctly before production.
 

Runt8

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#8
Calling it a fail seems extreme. The handle works to lower the seat. Just because it’s slightly inconvenient in your use case doesn’t make it a failure or incorrect.

I have two child seats in the back 99 percent of the time. If I want to lower the seats, I need to take out the child seats, in which case I’m already right there. So it would be a minor inconvenience for me to have to go around the the trunk to release them.
 

Dan Detweiler

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#9
Sorry, but the one thing I HATE about my wife's Sonata is the seat folding mechanism in the trunk. I understand what you're saying about the possible security issue but for me it is akward and a nuisance having to get into the trunk to fold the seat. I much prefer it on the inside of the cabin.

One of those "to eah his own" things.

Dan
 

Dan Detweiler

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#11
Why? Maybe the seat doesn't drop down on it's own if you pull the handle?
Whatever you put into the trunk you do it through the trunk.
Not necessarily. I will often load luggage, equipment and such that I am going to carry into and through the rear cabin area. Plus, the mechanism is very difficult to operate on the Sonata.

Like I said...it's a personal preference thing and I like it the way it is. If a thief really wants to get into your car they are going to find a way to do it regardless. Jhust my view of course. Others will disagree I'm sure.

Dan
 

Brett

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#12
This.
Maybe the seat doesn't drop down on it's own if you pull the handle?
In my Mazda 6 the handle is in the trunk but you have to push the seat forward from inside the car. I end up standing next to the rear tire, with one hand in the trunk and the other inside the cabin, it's not that hard but it is kinda awkward. I was very confused by the design until I saw this tread (the security concern had never occurred to me).

Personally I think the Model 3 design will be much more convenient since I don't think the security is that big of an issue, but I don't really care one way or the other.
 

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#13
I'm more used to the latch being in the cabin. To fold the seats, I'm accustomed to clearing the seats and adjusting headrests, then grabbing the seats to fold them down, rather than crawling into the trunk and pushing them. You'll notice in the Model 3 Owner's Manual they talk about clearing the seats first, so they were probably thinking along those lines, too.

I'm sure if they put the latches in the trunk they'd get a number of calls from people looking at the seats and not seeing a button to fold them. After all, the seat is the first place they'd look.
 

LucyferSam

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#14
I would not consider this a fail in any way, nor would I consider moving the latches to the trunk an improvement. My now previous car had the latch in the trunk and I always found it kind of annoying. Very glad to have it in the passenger cabin as it makes it a lot easier to use than the trunk release ever was.
 
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#16
Ultimately, it'd be best if the car simply locked the seat mechanism when you walk away with the phone, like how everything else does. Or maybe something like that could be sold as an after-market kit? Installable by certified shops or something?

Of the current offerings, what are people thinking? Or is there a better option?
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-rear-seat-lock-genius-video/
 

John

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#17
The currently latch location is super convenient, for both users and thieves.

The cars wouldn't be broken into nearly as much if the seats were harder to fold down, such as if the latches were in the trunk, or were electronic.

(But keep in mind that that would make using the seats less convenient for everyone else in low-crime areas.)

Any improvement would need to be universal and obvious. If not, you run the risk of someone smashing your window, then discovering a lock or other deterrent that they didn't expect.

At that point, your window is still smashed.
 

Magnets!

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#18
The release handles seem to operate a cable which is attached to the actual latch. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to route that cable to handles in the trunk and disconnect the handles in the car and insert one of the various red locks into it so it is clear to a thief looking in that he won't be able to access the trunk via the handle.
 

Defjukie

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#19
The release handles seem to operate a cable which is attached to the actual latch. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to route that cable to handles in the trunk and disconnect the handles in the car and insert one of the various red locks into it so it is clear to a thief looking in that he won't be able to access the trunk via the handle.
I think you're giving the thieves a little too much credit...
My guess is they will smash first and ask questions later.