Range Anxiety on Long-Range Mod 3

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#1
The other day I was navigating from the Kingston, GA supercharger to Santee, SC supercharge - 208 miles. Charged up to '269 miles' and took off on I-95 North.
Some 10-15 minutes into my drive, I get a warning that I should reduce my speed to 75 mph if I really wanted to make it to the Santee. Did that, then another warning came, telling me to reduce speed to 70 mph. To make it short, I went behind a semi for the next 100 miles doing 70-72 mph and made it to Santee but I am not sure why that happened. Was it the low temperature in the 60s? Is I-95 North going uphill on that section? Is it windy?
In any case, I am concerned that it was 'difficult' to complete a 208-mile trip after the battery was charged to 268 miles.
 

CaribbeanKing

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#2
I can't offer much in the way of a solution or recommendation, but I can echo your concern. I have a long commute to work 1-2x per week of 120 miles each way. Last week I charged up to 100%, 309 miles of range. When I got to the office, it told me I had 145 miles of range left. Not good. I ended up having to take the car to a local Level 2 charger for a couple of hours to make sure I'd make it home without trouble. I'm even at a higher elevation in Utah, which should have helped. I also didn't push the car hard or do any rapid accelerations. I'm hopeful it was an anomaly but I'll test again this week. My hope is that I can do the roundtrip without any concern of making it there and back. 240 miles roundtrip after charging up to 310 range shouldn't be too difficult. Admittedly, it's mostly highway and 75 MPH speed limit, but still it should get me close (I hope).
 

Ed Woodrick

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#3
For about every 5 mph above 55, you lose about 10% range. Slowing to 75 meant you were losing a lot of range.
Also the warning, I believe, is designed to get you in at about 20%.

With V9, you can much better see this with the energy display
 

Gavyne

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#4
Speed is your biggest drain. If you drove speed limit, you will have no issues making it without warnings. If you had heater on that would also affect your range.

When they rate cars, they do not rate them based on driving 70-80mph. You will not reach 310 miles driving above 60mph. If you want to have control over how far you can go, adjust your driving speed.
 

Karl Sun

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#7
Speed is your biggest drain.
...
When they rate cars, they do not rate them based on driving 70-80mph.
Around here (State of Arizona) the highway posted limit is 75 MPH for 90% of highways.

As you know attempting to maintain 60MPH on such roadways is unsafe.
 

Gavyne

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#8
Around here (State of Arizona) the highway posted limit is 75 MPH for 90% of highways.

As you know attempting to maintain 60MPH on such roadways is unsafe.
In such case, adjust your expectations accordingly :)

Good news is that Tesla sandbagged Model 3's range so for most people, achieving 310mi won't be an issue. In cases where you have to drive 75+ you will still get better range than you would with any other EV's available today.
 

garsh

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#9
Good news is that Tesla sandbagged Model 3's range so for most people, achieving 310mi won't be an issue.
They sandbagged the RWD's rating.
For AWD and Performance, they're overstating it by 3 miles.
 

kort677

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#10
The other day I was navigating from the Kingston, GA supercharger to Santee, SC supercharge - 208 miles. Charged up to '269 miles' and took off on I-95 North.
Some 10-15 minutes into my drive, I get a warning that I should reduce my speed to 75 mph if I really wanted to make it to the Santee. Did that, then another warning came, telling me to reduce speed to 70 mph. To make it short, I went behind a semi for the next 100 miles doing 70-72 mph and made it to Santee but I am not sure why that happened. Was it the low temperature in the 60s? Is I-95 North going uphill on that section? Is it windy?
In any case, I am concerned that it was 'difficult' to complete a 208-mile trip after the battery was charged to 268 miles.
first off when you exceed 75 mph your consumption rises much faster than traveling at 70 mph, secondly the computer gets confused at the beginning of a trip because of the initial usage from accelerating up to cruising speeds. what I do is after about 15 minutes or so after getting to and remaining at cruising speed force a recalc by ending the nav routing and then starting up again. this should get you a better indication of usage. lastly if you start to calculate the difference between driving fast and the time to charge you might find that slowing down yields faster travel times. the bottom line is that speed kills range, the speed limits on that trip are 65 or 70 MPH, going faster hurts your range and can earn you a speeding ticket. I've driven many thousands of miles across most of the country and I never go over 75 and while I have taken the car down close to zero range, there is no range anxieties.
 

jsmay311

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#11
Wow!!! Great chart. Bookmarked!
Don't put *too* much faith in that chart. It's decent for making relative comparisons between different vehicles/configs/speed, but it's based on a number of assumptions and calculations that don't pan out in my experience. (For example, projecting a 296-mile range at 75mph in a RWD Model 3.)

Good news is that Tesla sandbagged Model 3's range so for most people, achieving 310mi won't be an issue.
That may be true on paper, but idk how well it translates to real world driving. The Edmunds long term test drive shows them doing better in their Bolt than in their Model 3 vs their respective rated efficiencies/ranges .

And if you look at the Model 3 battery-to-wheels efficiency polls on TMC and TOO, most model 3 owners are not achieving average efficiencies necessary to match the 310 mile range. And that includes all driving. The highway-speed efficiencies/ranges will be worse.

I do everything right from an efficiency standpoint (chill mode, slow accel/decel, aeros, high tire pressure, no climate use, etc,) and I can beat the rated range in city driving pretty easily, but not at sustained 70+ mph speeds. And, of course, highway range is what matters most to most people.

Bottom line: don't expect rated range in highway driving at 70+ mph speeds. Especially so if the temps are below 50F, you've got extra passengers/weight, there's precipitation, there's a headwind, etc.
 
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ADK46

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#12
An unfortunate fact of aerodynamics - unless you find yourself under a parachute - is that air resistance increases with the square of speed.

I just entered my own particulars into the calculator (link below) and it said I'd get 310 miles range at 70 mph. At that speed, the battery must supply 17.7 kW. After losses (inverter, motor and gearbox), 13.8 kW reaches the wheels. Of that, 4.7 kW goes to fight rolling resistance in the tires, and 9.1 kW is used to fight air resistance.

At 75 mph, the predicted range drops to 284 miles.

Edit: I failed to enter my 1000 ft altitude - I can get a 310-mile range at 71.4 mph!
 
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jsmay311

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#14
Ugh, that doesn’t sound like any fun at all! Do you really need to milk out those last few miles?
No. I just prefer to drive efficiently and minimize my carbon footprint rather than accelerate fast. And temps have been moderate recently so no need for significant climate control usage.

I just entered my own particulars into the calculator (link below) and it said I'd get 310 miles range at 70 mph. At that speed, the battery must supply 17.7 kW. After losses (inverter, motor and gearbox), 13.8 kW reaches the wheels. Of that, 4.7 kW goes to fight rolling resistance in the tires, and 9.1 kW is used to fight air resistance.

At 75 mph, the predicted range drops to 284 miles.

Edit: I failed to enter my 1000 ft altitude - I can get a 310-mile range at 71.4 mph!
As with any such tool for estimating range/efficiency/power/etc., the quality of the output is only as good as the assumptions being made to design the model.

Playing around with that site, I don't trust it at all. For example, dropping the temperature from 80F all the way down to 0F only reduces the estimated range by 4.2%. That is WAAAAAAAAYYYYY off.

(I suppose it's not terribly surprising that a site called "BikeCalculator.com" wouldn't have a super accurate model for electric cars.)
 

ADK46

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#15
As with any such tool for estimating range/efficiency/power/etc., the quality of the output is only as good as the assumptions being made to design the model.

Playing around with that site, I don't trust it at all. For example, dropping the temperature from 80F all the way down to 0F only reduces the estimated range by 4.2%. That is WAAAAAAAAYYYYY off.

(I suppose it's not terribly surprising that a site called "BikeCalculator.com" wouldn't have a super accurate model for electric cars.)
Temperature and altitude inputs are only there for calculating air density. The 4.2% reduction in range is because the air is thicker. This is explained in the text, which is probably TL;DR. (I looked that term up just today: too long; didn't read. There's an interesting dichotomy between TL;DR and RTFM.)

Another thing you missed is that I am the creator of the site. If you dig into it, you'll find that I have decent engineering credentials, though mostly in metallurgy for aircraft engines. I registered ebikecalculator-dot-com years ago, but never did anything with it. I have no grand plans for the M3 calculator, so it sits in a corner of the internet. I'm going to stay away from any sort of battery modeling - they're too weird. I am thankful mine will be parked in a warm garage.

The engineering maxim applies - "All models are wrong; some are useful." Play around with it some more!

Edit: changed the temperature entry field to add "for air density only".
 
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1

13004

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#16
Speed is your biggest drain. If you drove speed limit, you will have no issues making it without warnings. If you had heater on that would also affect your range.
Yup, yup.

speed kills
cabin heat kills
rain kills
elevation increase kills
 

kort677

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#17

Craig Bennett

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#20
planning your extended road trips is crucial to eliminating any range issues, think like a pilot! they plan their trips meticulously always knowing where their next fuel stop is and where there are alternatives available. here's some sites for your pre trip planning
https://supercharge.info/map
https://www.evtripplanner.com
https://plugshare.com
and use the find us tab here for destination chargers
https://www.tesla.com/

YES! Pilots are amazing. Just ask one. :p

Obligatory pilot joke: "Know the difference between God and a pilot??? God doesn't think he/she is a pilot."