Question bout autopilot and full self driving

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Ivanm

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#1
Was wondering whats the difference between autopilot and full self driving. Shows autopilot is included but then after shows for an extra $7,000 i can get full self driving. Is it worth the extra 7k and if not whats included with just the autopilot?
 

Frully

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#2
Edit: and welcome to the forum!

Basic autopilot will hold the lane and drive with adaptive cruise control. It won't do much more than that (changing lanes, navigating exits and merges, handle future light/sign restrictions).

Full Self Drive is starting to come into fruition adding on Nav on Autopilot, Smart summon, Automatic lane changes, stop sign and red light detection (not yet action).

*I'm a bit blurry on auto lane changes being basic autopilot or fsd (use turn indicator to change lanes...not the car deciding to pass other traffic or get in the appropriate lane for an exit)

Edit2: https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-enhance-autopilot-vs-full-self-driving-difference/ this article has a good rundown. It's dated at this point but has been updated with edits to show the current state of affairs.
 

AutopilotFan

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#3
Autopilot capability means that your car can:
  • maintain a set speed or following distance from a car in front
  • steer the car to stay in its lane and avoid obstacles
It includes base safety features like collision avoidance and emergency braking.

Full self-driving adds a number of features, some of which haven't been released yet. They add to Autopilot by making the car more autonomous. These include:
  • Navigate on Autopilot: the car will not only keep speed and stay in lane (Autopilot), but it will merge into the necessary lane and follow a path from road to road.
  • Autopark: when you tell it to, the car will parallel or perpendicular park itself.
  • Enhanced Summon: you can tell your car to come to you or to drive to a specified spot in a parking lot.
  • When on Autopilot, the car will recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs. (Not yet released.)
We don't believe that Full Self-Driving will include fully autonomous driving, but eventually it may. Tesla has long-term plans to turn its cars into a fleet of autonomous, self-driving cars that will drive themselves to pick you up, and park themselves after they drop you off. This is going to be a long time coming, both for the technology and for the required regulatory approval.

Navigate on Autopilot is really great for road trips on highways. It has helped me when I've been distracted or confused about the route on unfamiliar highways. Autopark isn't that useful in my life since I rarely parallel park, but I'm terrible at it so it's very welcome when I use it. Enhanced Summon is mostly a show-off trick right now, but I expect it to get better over time.

We can't ever be sure, but $7000 is likely to be the lowest price you'll see. But you can definitely add it later if the price is an issue.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#4
In today’s terms — if you do a lot of highway driving it’s worth every penny.

Soon (as Elon puts it), Full Self Drive will be feature complete. Now that doesn’t mean the level 5 full autonomous self driving will be here soon, but it means navigate on autopilot for city roads will be here soon (stopping at stop signs and red lights, turning right and left and intersections). I think it’s worth every penny at that point as you truly are left with 1% (or less) of the driving door to door.
 

Nom

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#6
@AutopilotFan - good write up. One point to clarify .... You mention Navigate on Autopilot helping since it removes uncertainty / confusion. I’m thinking simple Navigation (available to autopilot only) does that. Fair?
 

FRC

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@AutopilotFan - good write up. One point to clarify .... You mention Navigate on Autopilot helping since it removes uncertainty / confusion. I’m thinking simple Navigation (available to autopilot only) does that. Fair?
I read @AutopilotFan 's post to mean that, because NOA can automatically exit/enter interstates it is very helpful navigating in unfamiliar areas by helping to take the appropriate exits to remain on course. This is the primary way that I currently use NOA(to assist me in navigating unfamiliar urban interstate interchanges). Autopilot alone obviously can't do this.
 

Collier007

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#8
Good write ups from everyone above. IMO, FSD is not worth $7k now, but a question you need to ask is if it’s worth it to roll it into your monthly payment if you think it will be worth it in the future. $7k+ in one lump sum might be a large out of pocket expense at a future date.

I have FSD, and to me the autopilot system feels like a teenager is driving the car. My wife does not want it to do any driving when she and the kids are in the car. With that said, I still often turn the NoA on and even she will admit that it has made big improvements over the last 12 months. It might take additional leaps when the new FSD computer is installed in my car and Tesla optimizes the software for its more powerful computer processor. Also, I do mostly side street driving to work and try to avoid freeways. I might have a different opinion if I was doing the majority of my
driving using NoA.

Advanced summon is a fun toy that I like to use when the rain is really bad and I am leaving work with almost no other cars in the parking lot.

Good luck in your decision process.
 

AutopilotFan

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#10
I read @AutopilotFan 's post to mean that, because NOA can automatically exit/enter interstates it is very helpful navigating in unfamiliar areIas by helping to take the appropriate exits to remain on course.
You are exactly correct. It also helps on those long road trips where I might become distracted by whatever conversation I am having or podcast I am listening to and miss the exit. I've been driving for enough decades to have a built-in Autopilot -- which doesn't Navigate that well. :)

Teslas have 3 levels of driver automation, each announced by their own chime:
  1. TACC: Traffic Aware Cruise Control. The car maintains either your set speed, or a set following distance from the car ahead. Unlike many other cars, it goes down to zero MPH and is awesome for stop-and-go traffic.
  2. Autopilot: in addition to TACC, the car takes over the steering to keep the car in its lane. It will handle merging traffic and is also amazing in stop-and-go traffic on any road, not just highways. (Just make sure you observe stop signs, traffic lights, and anyone directing traffic!)
    • I can't tell you whether or not you can direct the car to change lanes while on Autopilot if you don't have Full Self-Driving. I bought my car in 2018 when the features were packaged differently. I find changing lanes to be stressful and LOVE telling the car to do it for me.
  3. Navigate on Autopilot: in addition to Autopilot, the car will follow a route. If you allow it, the car will change lanes to either go faster or to position itself and prepare to exit. It will merge onto another highway. It won't follow a route outside of highways; it drops back to Autopilot whenever it can't navigate a route.
If you regularly drive on highways or on heavily congested roads, or you want your long road trips to be more pleasant, you want Full Self-Driving. You'll find Navigate on Autopilot useful now, and more features are coming.
 

FRC

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#11
That, sir, is an excellent summary. I can clear up your one uncertainty. My wife has a non-FSD M3. Autopilot alone will NOT change lanes on it's own or by using the turn signal; you must have FSD(or the old-fashioned EAP) for this.
 

Nom

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#12
Ok. I suppose I need to experience NOA to appreciate it. For now simply having navigation on provides the clarity I need on the exits I need to take. I can see how NOA makes this even easier.
 

AutopilotFan

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#13
That, sir, is an excellent summary. I can clear up your one uncertainty. My wife has a non-FSD M3. Autopilot alone will NOT change lanes on it's own or by using the turn signal; you must have FSD(or the old-fashioned EAP) for this.
Thanks, I was wondering about this. So that's another for the +FSD column -- you can change lanes while in Autopilot by activating the turn signal. The visualization and animation for it is VERY COOL.
 

Needsdecaf

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#14
Ok. I suppose I need to experience NOA to appreciate it. For now simply having navigation on provides the clarity I need on the exits I need to take. I can see how NOA makes this even easier.
Honestly, it doesn't. Not unless your highways are very lightly traveled.

I drove my Model 3 29k miles in 1 year in the very busy and crowded roads of Houston. I used NOA for a time to try it out, but turned it off and don't miss it at all. Here's why:

1. NOA makes suggestions for lane changes that don't make much sense. I.E. suggestion of changing lanes to the "faster" lane when it's not really faster. Suggesting you change into the "faster" lane and then suggesting a change back without passing anyone.

2. NOA slows down REMARKABLY before the actual exit ramp starts. Like 20 MPH slower than the travel speed while still in the lanes before you're actually on the exit ramp.

3. NOA slows down on exit ramps quite a bit slower than you'd probably do yourself.

All in all, I don't find NOA to be useful in "relieving the stress" of driving in traffic. If anything, it makes it worse.

I'm glad I have EAP which has auto-lane change. If I didn't have that, I'd miss it. Having to dis-engage TACC / Steering Assist every time you change lanes and then re-engage it would be painful. I know this because there are a few stretches where the sun blinds my left side camera and that takes away auto lane changes but still maintains TACC / SA and it's annoying in traffic.

But for $7k....save your money until the Full Self Driving actually becomes, well, FULL.
 

Needsdecaf

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You are exactly correct. It also helps on those long road trips where I might become distracted by whatever conversation I am having or podcast I am listening to and miss the exit. I've been driving for enough decades to have a built-in Autopilot -- which doesn't Navigate that well. :)

Teslas have 3 levels of driver automation, each announced by their own chime:
  1. TACC: Traffic Aware Cruise Control. The car maintains either your set speed, or a set following distance from the car ahead. Unlike many other cars, it goes down to zero MPH and is awesome for stop-and-go traffic.
  2. Autopilot: in addition to TACC, the car takes over the steering to keep the car in its lane. It will handle merging traffic and is also amazing in stop-and-go traffic on any road, not just highways. (Just make sure you observe stop signs, traffic lights, and anyone directing traffic!)
    • I can't tell you whether or not you can direct the car to change lanes while on Autopilot if you don't have Full Self-Driving. I bought my car in 2018 when the features were packaged differently. I find changing lanes to be stressful and LOVE telling the car to do it for me.
  3. Navigate on Autopilot: in addition to Autopilot, the car will follow a route. If you allow it, the car will change lanes to either go faster or to position itself and prepare to exit. It will merge onto another highway. It won't follow a route outside of highways; it drops back to Autopilot whenever it can't navigate a route.
If you regularly drive on highways or on heavily congested roads, or you want your long road trips to be more pleasant, you want Full Self-Driving. You'll find Navigate on Autopilot useful now, and more features are coming.
#2 above is called Autosteer, not Autopilot. Otherwise nice summary.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_3_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf
 

Jemez

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#16
I'm looking at purchasing a Model 3 next month, so really appreciate this thread. A lot of the discussions that I have read seem to call it autopilot when I think they really mean full self driving. That has left me very confused on the differences.

A couple of questions. With autopilot (not FSD), is the distance that Traffic Aware Cruise Control keeps between you and the car in front adjustable? Does it behave pretty much like a human driver would, keeping a shorter distance at slow speeds and a larger distance at higher speeds?

I'm not interested in full self drive at this time. Partly because it puts the price over my budget, but also I'm not sure it would be useful on the narrow mountain roads where I do 90% of my driving. But that may change in the years ahead. Any one willing to hazard a guess at what this upgrade might cost in the future?
 

FRC

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#17
You've asked three questions. Is TACC travel distance adjustable? Does it vary based upon speed? Yes and Yes. Follow interval can be adjusted with a side-to-side flick of the right scroll wheel from a 1-5 interval. While I won't swear what interval this adjustment represents, I will say with authority that it is NOT car lengths. It IS time(speed) dependent. My best guess is that level 5 is 2.5 seconds behind the car in front and level 1 is 1/2 second behind. And I'll add this, The car does such a good job of interval maintenance that I'm completely comfortable with a 1 interval. Finally, What might FSD cost in the future? Assuming that you know nothing about Tesla, your guess is still just as good as anyone's(possibly including Elon's). I'll hazard a guess with a full 50% level of certainty that today's cost of FSD is about as cheap as it's likely to get.
 

Needsdecaf

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#18
I'm not interested in full self drive at this time. Partly because it puts the price over my budget, but also I'm not sure it would be useful on the narrow mountain roads where I do 90% of my driving. But that may change in the years ahead. Any one willing to hazard a guess at what this upgrade might cost in the future?
Autosteer is not meant for narrow mountain roads. It's a driving aid intended to be used on interstates and limited access roadways. This is true for the autosteer contained in the base "Autopilot" package or Full Self Driving. Doesn't make a difference. At this time, the active features you would get upgrading to FSD package would be:

Navigate on Autopilot
Automatic lane change
Auto park
Advanced Summon.

Of that list, I would say, as I did above, that NOA is only moderately useful. Auto lane change is quite useful. Auto park is a gimmick as is Advanced summon.

Later, in the future, Telsa is promising this package will recognize street and stop signs and be able to drive on city streets. I would surmise that this essentially will then allow autosteer to operate outside of the areas I mentioned above.

Personally, having seen what the current TACC / Autosteer / NOA is capable of, I feel zero need to upgrade to FSD. My thought is by the time that FSD is to the point where I would be comfortable using it in urban situations, I will no longer own the car.
 

AutopilotFan

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#19
I'm looking at purchasing a Model 3 next month, so really appreciate this thread. A lot of the discussions that I have read seem to call it autopilot when I think they really mean full self driving. That has left me very confused on the differences.
FSD is a package of features. Some of those features interact with Autopilot. To make it even more confusing, those who purchased before January 2019 had a choice of "Enhanced Autopilot" which was a different bundle of features, some of which are now included in Autopilot (and available to everyone) while others are now part of FSD. Navigate on Autopilot is an example of a feature that is included in Enhanced Autopilot and FSD, but not part of Autopilot.

A couple of questions. With autopilot (not FSD), is the distance that Traffic Aware Cruise Control keeps between you and the car in front adjustable? Does it behave pretty much like a human driver would, keeping a shorter distance at slow speeds and a larger distance at higher speeds?
Yes. I'll defer to @FRC 's answer here.

I'm not interested in full self drive at this time. Partly because it puts the price over my budget, but also I'm not sure it would be useful on the narrow mountain roads where I do 90% of my driving. But that may change in the years ahead.
Narrow mountain roads won't make a difference for FSD. Autopilot (to be more precise, Autosteer) is the feature that's controlling the driving behavior that keeps you in your lane. (Thanks, @Needsdecaf !) The difference in the future with the upgrade will be when you encounter a stop sign or traffic light. With Autopilot, your car will just keep driving and you'll have to stop it manually. With FSD, the car will stop itself.

Nowadays Tesla will offer you a free month of FSD if you don't get it at purchase. That's the best way to figure out if it will do you any good. You might want to hold off on your free month until FSD is upgraded with the ability to react to stop signs and traffic lights.

Any one willing to hazard a guess at what this upgrade might cost in the future?
When I purchased the car, Enhanced Autopilot cost $5000 and FSD was $3000. I didn't buy FSD. After I took delivery the upgrade to FSD cost $4000. (This was 3 weeks before they released the Navigate on Autopilot feature in November 2018.)

In December 2018 the features were repackaged so that everyone got Autopilot and FSD cost $7000. (Essentially, $1000 less than if I had purchased FSD with the car.) The upgrade for me (who already had Enhanced Autopilot) dropped to $3000. But there was also a big blowup because of the repackaging. Many people felt like they had been ripped off by paying for FSD at purchase.

Tesla offered FSD upgrades to those with Enhanced Autopilot for $2000 for about a month. That seemed like the lowest price it would ever be, so I upgraded. Today I think the upgrade costs $4000 for those who have Enhanced Autopilot.

Hopefully this explains why it's hard to answer your question. My prediction based on Tesla's actions in the last 9 months lead me to believe that $7000 is the lowest price you'll see. But they could surprise us all and release another level, something like "Autonomous Driving", that gives you the ability to tell your car to drive itself home and park, or join the fleet of autonomous Teslas and go earn you some money, or go drive your kids to school, etc. That might change the entire cost structure. Nobody knows.
 

Jemez

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#20
Thanks everyone for your replies. I think I will find TACC and autosteer very useful when driving on interstates for long distances.

Navigate on Autopilot isn't something I'd personally be interested in. Both my wife and I enjoy navigating with paper maps (kind of old school I guess), so we wouldn't be inclined to pay for that.