Power Meter - Dots for less power?

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BLDRN3R

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#1
So I noticed this the other day and decided to see if it would come back.

As the battery in my M3 gets lower and lower I see dots beginning to appear on the far right edge of the power meter (see attached photo). The most I have seen is three dots when I was down to about 50 miles of range.

Has anyone else seen these or have an explanation of what they are? It reminds me of a 'redline' in an ICE car to show where power output caps, esp. as battery gets lower and theres more of a necessity to preserve range/performance.

Will post more photos this week as the dots increase.
 

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garsh

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#2
My guess (based on how my Leaf behaves):

A battery with a low state of charge is physically unable to deliver as much current as one that's well-charged. So as your battery gets really low, this is probably how the car lets you know that you will not be able to accelerate as hard as you usually can. Those dots represent "currently unreachable" power.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#3
I've seen that before with higher capacity as well. My gut feeling was that it was more about battery temp or some other factor that simply limited max output.

That said, even flooring the car the bar never hits the end anyway :)
 

John

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#4
The dots can appear on either end of the meter, and indicate the max allowed (regent or power) in that direction. Various reasons: state of charge, current conditioning state, temp.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#5
I've seen that before with higher capacity as well. My gut feeling was that it was more about battery temp or some other factor that simply limited max output.

That said, even flooring the car the bar never hits the end anyway :)
Following up to reverse what I said. Either I never noticed or this changed with the latest update but the bar most certainly hits the end under full throttle. It’s just the regen side that never hits the end :)
 

mswlogo

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#10
A friend of mine had those dots (on the RIGHT) show up this morning (RWD LR, with Xi3 Snows and never had any issue with snow tire regen)

He had 33 miles left on his battery after a long drive and parked it at -2F overnight at home.

He could have charged it at home, but at work he can charge for free 10 miles away. I told him that's a bad idea to leave it that low in such extreme temps.

Any way he had several dots on the right and a snow flake. Which is fine and expected and he reached work fine.

But, what is odd, is he had FULL REGEN?

Is the battery in some sort of "Extended Range" mode and throwing the regen rules out? Is Regen going into Heat?
 

JWardell

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#11
Teslas have both regen and discharge power limits. The UI will show these as dots in the display. Regen limiting stars to kick in below 50F and will go all the way to zero if the battery is near freezing. A battery chilled below freezing will also begin to show a discharge limit as well, I've seen 4-5 dots on the right side myself.

Discharging power will also be limited if you are close to a fully discharged battery. The car only allows a small amount of power to be applied, so voltage doesn't drop below critical levels.
Look at this recent tweet:
 

mswlogo

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#12
Teslas have both regen and discharge power limits. The UI will show these as dots in the display. Regen limiting stars to kick in below 50F and will go all the way to zero if the battery is near freezing. A battery chilled below freezing will also begin to show a discharge limit as well, I've seen 4-5 dots on the right side myself.

Discharging power will also be limited if you are close to a fully discharged battery. The car only allows a small amount of power to be applied, so voltage doesn't drop below critical levels.
Look at this recent tweet:
I get that. Why is full regen available with his frozen battery, snow flake and limited power?
 

mswlogo

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#13
I wonder if when the battery is super low it can take the full regen even if the battery is very cold.

The only time I see over 100 kw on a supercharger is when my battery is super low (like below 20%)
 

Bokonon

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#14
I get that. Why is full regen available with his frozen battery, snow flake and limited power?
Just to confirm... did his screen only say he had full regen, or did he report experiencing full regen after he had started driving?

The reason I ask is because sometimes I don't see my "actual" number of regen dots until I actually try to use regen. For example, I may start a drive with ~8 regen dots displayed on the screen, but as soon as I actually use regen to brake, 6 more dots will suddenly appear, and regen will be capped at the 14-dot level.

That said, I've only seen that happen with *some* number of dots displayed when starting a drive, not zero dots.
 

iChris93

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#15
Just to confirm... did his screen only say he had full regen, or did he report experiencing full regen after he had started driving?

The reason I ask is because sometimes I don't see my "actual" number of regen dots until I actually try to use regen. For example, I may start a drive with ~8 regen dots displayed on the screen, but as soon as I actually use regen to brake, 6 more dots will suddenly appear, and regen will be capped at the 14-dot level.

That said, I've only seen that happen with *some* number of dots displayed when starting a drive, not zero dots.
I’ll go further and say sometimes I don’t see the dots until I put the car into drive or reverse.
 

mswlogo

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#16
Anoteher data point. When he plugged in at his work (With a snow flake and limited power) -4F over night and -1F when he drove in.
It went straight to 24 mph charge rate. Fastest he's seen at work.

Hmmm, I wonder if it would be much cheaper to operate by keeping our batteries at low SOC.
You get Full Regen when cold and the charger won't waste energy heating battery to charge it.

How low is practical I don't know.
 

mswlogo

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#17
Just to confirm... did his screen only say he had full regen, or did he report experiencing full regen after he had started driving?

The reason I ask is because sometimes I don't see my "actual" number of regen dots until I actually try to use regen. For example, I may start a drive with ~8 regen dots displayed on the screen, but as soon as I actually use regen to brake, 6 more dots will suddenly appear, and regen will be capped at the 14-dot level.

That said, I've only seen that happen with *some* number of dots displayed when starting a drive, not zero dots.
He definitely experienced full regen. I asked him that too.
 

mswlogo

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#18
I’ll go further and say sometimes I don’t see the dots until I put the car into drive or reverse.
He knows that, and I know that. And he felt it.

It makes sense. Superchargers can charge MUCH faster on a low battery.
 

JWardell

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#20
I get that. Why is full regen available with his frozen battery, snow flake and limited power?
His battery isn't cold at all, confirmed by mentioning he was just driving hard in a rally. It might be very cold outside but he's heated the battery by driving hard (which is much more effective than charging BTW!). That's why there's no regen limit, but power is limited because it is almost depleted.

You can see he's been on the road for only 10 minutes. Still with very cold battery. Still very cold out. With Full Regen showing and by feel.


Now this is more curious, because your battery is warm enough for full regen, but still showing snowflake. Maybe temps are still limiting a small amount of battery, but if snowflake is based on percentage of available lost due to cold (instead of percentage of total lost), then it is enough to display.

State of charge is still a bit of a mystery as the displayed SOC is not the same as what the battery calculates. We can clearly read several SOC values communicated by the BMS, inlcuding one labeled UI SOC, and yet the display often shows lower. You might notice this same issue if you compare Teslafi's recorded levels with what is shown on screen. I think Tesla is applying a secondary thermal correction factor just within the computer. Or maybe we'll discover more soon.