Performance Model 3 get different motor(s)?

Will the Performance Model 3 have the same motors as the standard Model 3?


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m3_4_wifey

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#1
With the dual motor option seen out in the wild, it won't be long before it shows up in the configurator. Will the performance version Model 3 be part of that mix? Seems to me the big changes for a performance Model 3 are breaks, suspension, wheels, and possibly a different motor(s). Not much to change in order to get some high margin cars done the line. The motor is the big question mark in my mind.

I believe there are differences to the rear motor on a Model S between a 100D and P100D right? The fact that they are talking about getting dual motor cars to Canadians this summer makes me think that the mass market dual motor version has to come out to fill the line with orders.

Do you think the performance model 3 is going to get the same motors as the dual motor car and that the performance is just from a software update? Or is the performance Model 3 have a new motor?

My guess is that the standard car has much more of an eye at efficiency, but if you are using the front motor for efficiency when you are not accelerating, you could still have a beast of motor in the rear and try and get the best of both worlds (acceleration and range). I really don't know enough about the switched reluctance permanent magnet motor in the Model 3 to know if it is going to be a software change to boost performance or if a different rear motor should be put in.
 

Bokonon

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#2
Do you think the performance model 3 is going to get the same motors as the dual motor car and that the performance is just from a software update? Or is the performance Model 3 have a new motor?
There's also this diagram to consider:



We don't know whether this diagram applies to the standard dual-motor Model 3, or to the Performance Model 3.... or to both. There has been some discussion here about whether the two motors themselves are actually the same assembly only with different housing (I don't know enough to weigh in), but it raises the question of what it even means to have a "different" front and rear motor. For example, if the front and rear motors are physically the same with identical ratings, but one is software-limited in the non-performance Model 3, are the two motors "different" because they behave differently, or are they "the same" because they share the same hardware?'

Semantics aside, given what we know about Tesla's intentions to make the Model 3 easy to manufacture at volume, and given that we know that the Tesla semi uses "a bunch of Model 3 motors", I think there's a decent chance that there is only one "Model 3 motor" assembly, and that there will be firmware limits applied to one (or both) of them in the non-performance dual-motor configuration. In this scenario, the Performance version would simply remove those limits and upgrade any fuses, wiring, etc. needed to handle maximum discharge from the battery.

BTW, for insight into the technical specifications and capabilities of the Model 3, I can't recommend this thread enough...

https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/amazing-inginineerix-model-3-teardown.6078/

Even though it's a first production (LR / RWD) car being discussed, if you consider Tesla's emphasis on minimizing manufacturing complexity for the Model 3, I think there's a lot of information in that thread that we can use to make an educated guess about what the dual-motor and performance configurations will look like.
 

garsh

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#3
It appears that the dual-motor configuration uses the same motor in the rear, but a slightly smaller version of the motor in the front.

The front motor looks to have a shorter stack (the active part with rotor and stator) than the rear.
My rough guess is the the front is roughly 2/3 as powerful as the rear.
 

m3_4_wifey

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#4
For example, if the front and rear motors are physically the same with identical ratings, but one is software-limited in the non-performance Model 3, are the two motors "different" because they behave differently, or are they "the same" because they share the same hardware?'
I agree that the smarter move would be to have all the same motors and just software limit it. That's what software and computer companies typically do to keep part number and engineering work to a minimum, while maximizing differentiation in their product line. If the motors are the same, we are really talking about a current limit on the battery pack.
 

TrevP

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#5
There's also this diagram to consider:



We don't know whether this diagram applies to the standard dual-motor Model 3, or to the Performance Model 3.... or to both. There has been some discussion here about whether the two motors themselves are actually the same assembly only with different housing (I don't know enough to weigh in), but it raises the question of what it even means to have a "different" front and rear motor. For example, if the front and rear motors are physically the same with identical ratings, but one is software-limited in the non-performance Model 3, are the two motors "different" because they behave differently, or are they "the same" because they share the same hardware?'

Semantics aside, given what we know about Tesla's intentions to make the Model 3 easy to manufacture at volume, and given that we know that the Tesla semi uses "a bunch of Model 3 motors", I think there's a decent chance that there is only one "Model 3 motor" assembly, and that there will be firmware limits applied to one (or both) of them in the non-performance dual-motor configuration. In this scenario, the Performance version would simply remove those limits and upgrade any fuses, wiring, etc. needed to handle maximum discharge from the battery.

BTW, for insight into the technical specifications and capabilities of the Model 3, I can't recommend this thread enough...

https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/amazing-inginineerix-model-3-teardown.6078/

Even though it's a first production (LR / RWD) car being discussed, if you consider Tesla's emphasis on minimizing manufacturing complexity for the Model 3, I think there's a lot of information in that thread that we can use to make an educated guess about what the dual-motor and performance configurations will look like.
Motors look flipped 180° to me
 
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4701

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#8
My bet:

SR RWD Model 3 will have one smaller motor.
SR AWD Model 3 will have two smaller motors.
LR RWD Model 3 (one that is available right now) has one larger motor.
LR AWD Model 3 will have two smaller motors.
LR AWD Model 3 with performance option will have larger motor in the back, smaller in the front.

LR AWD will have better performance than SR AWD due to better voltage feed from the battery.
LR RWD might have very similar performance as LR AWD due to battery limitation.
 

m3_4_wifey

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#9
I agree that the smarter move would be to have all the same motors and just software limit it. That's what software and computer companies typically do to keep part number and engineering work to a minimum, while maximizing differentiation in their product line. If the motors are the same, we are really talking about a current limit on the battery pack.
Revisiting the old thread.....

Bokonon,
You had the most accurate guess on what Tesla decided to do between the AWD and Performance AWD! And like computer companies, they are sifting the front motors to determine which ones are more powerful. However, I agree with you that a lot of that performance differentiation is probably a current limit on the battery pack.
 

Bokonon

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#10
You had the most accurate guess on what Tesla decided to do between the AWD and Performance AWD!
Um, I don't know that I did, but thanks. :) I thought your bin-sorted chip analogy was clearer and much more closer to the truth than my semantic philosophizing.
 

oneshortguy

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#11
Historically, the S/X had the same motors for all trims except for a larger rear motor for the P models. Correct me if I'm wrong. I doubt they would change up different motor configurations for the 3 since it will cost more.

I am looking at it like RC cars, battery configuration contributes the most in terms of acceleration/speed.
 

garsh

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#12
Historically, the S/X had the same motors for all trims except for a larger rear motor for the P models. Correct me if I'm wrong. I doubt they would change up different motor configurations for the 3 since it will cost more.
This has already been answered by Elon on Twitter. Someone resurrected this old thread. :)

Rear motors are all the same (some kind of PM motor).
Front motors are induction.

Performance gets same motors, but for P they've been tested to make sure they can withstand more power.
 

Lovesword

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#13
This has already been answered by Elon on Twitter. Someone resurrected this old thread. :)

Rear motors are all the same (some kind of PM motor).
Front motors are induction.

Performance gets same motors, but for P they've been tested to make sure they can withstand more power.
A40A4A47-57EC-408F-AA47-A0BBC3093B44.jpeg
Obligatory
 

lascavarian

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#14
The motor question is an interesting one. Really anything about the motors is very interesting to me. The pivotal observation that was jaw dropping about Tesla on several levels was when I first visited a store and came upon the a display with just the motor. There in an ~ 80 lb motor was about 300ish+ HP. As that sunk in, I realized the internal combustion engines was essentially dead. There was no way to compete if that motor could be made durable and maintainable. I believe that has been done.

Yet with the model 3 we see a further refinement of the motor which is thrilling to me. I would love to have a model 3 motor (maybe a faulty one) just to collect. I don't know what to expect as the forward motor on the performance 3. I think it will be a new design we have not seen before.

I would also like to start a sort of list of the other differences that will be in the AWD or Performance 3. I would expect there might be cooling modifications to address the heat from 2 motors. There might be changes in the electronic components. Wiring harnesses might be different. The software may be different perhaps but how. Brackets may be different if there are changes to the brakes. Will the noise level change in the vehicle and will there be any way to add extra dampening? Lots of areas may benefit from a little tweeking. I thought there was an advanced electronic component being considered for the "inverter" or power module etc?