Optimal daily charging

What percentage

  • 50%

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • 60%

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • 70%

    Votes: 61 20.1%
  • 80%

    Votes: 128 42.2%
  • 90%

    Votes: 106 35.0%
  • 100%

    Votes: 2 0.7%

  • Total voters
    303

pacific dunes

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#41
somewhat related question - I have a 280 mile roadtrip planned., with a supercharger location about 170 miles along the way and supercharger at destination. I rarely take roadtrips this long

1) How much should I charge to at the start of the trip? Is 90% recommended?
2) Am I better off stopping or going all the way and driving 280 miles to the destination?
 

Vin

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#42
somewhat related question - I have a 280 mile roadtrip planned., with a supercharger location about 170 miles along the way and supercharger at destination. I rarely take roadtrips this long

1) How much should I charge to at the start of the trip? Is 90% recommended?
2) Am I better off stopping or going all the way and driving 280 miles to the destination?
In my opinion, i would charge to 90% the day before and in the morning like an hour before leaving start to charge it up to 100% and then hop in and start driving.
I would recommend stopping along the way (for a break anyway, and you'll be less anxious going the remainder of the trip).
 

KarenRei

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#43
Yeah, a five-minute break at a supercharger (at that SoC, maybe getting 100kW) will add like 30-35 miles. Should be more than enough of a comfort buffer for you. Technically you don't need to stop at all, you've already got a 30 mile buffer (~10%), assuming that your "real-world miles" roughly equates to the rated 310 miles (your car and driving habits will vary!). But you'll probably feel more comfortable with a ~20% buffer :)

If you're really worried about damage, charge to 95%. I am definitely in the "don't charge to a high SoC daily, but absolutely use it when it's useful" camp :) The only people who tend to prematurely wear out their batteries are the people who charge to 95-100% daily.
 
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Frank99

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#45
Charge it to 100%, and when you get in the car set the nav to take you to your destination. It'll tell you whether or not it thinks you'll need to stop, and it'll tell you how many miles of range it thinks you'll have left when you get to your destination. Monitor the range left number as you drive, which will help you learn how much to trust it - if you normally drive 85, it'll probably overestimate your range left significantly; if you normally drive 55, it'll underestimate it.
Personally, I'd start with 100% and slow down as necessary to make it to the destination rather than stopping at the midway SC, but that's just me.
 
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#46
I have been charging my M3 at home when I get below 200 miles and have it set to stop around 270 miles. From reading this thread, I am thinking I should lower it to about 250 miles max.

I end up charging every two or three days, depending how much I drive.

Any suggestions?
 

KarenRei

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#47
I have been charging my M3 at home when I get below 200 miles and have it set to stop around 270 miles. From reading this thread, I am thinking I should lower it to about 250 miles max.

I end up charging every two or three days, depending how much I drive.

Any suggestions?
If you'd almost never actually need that 270 miles in your everyday life (e.g. not including trips that you know about in advance), and generally won't use much of that charge, then I agree, best to lower it. You probably won't get any meaningful improvement in lifespan below 70% or so SoC, and the difference between 80% and 70% will be minimal. Remember, though, that there's more wear on the bottom end of the SoC spectrum too, not just the top. So for example it'd be counterproductive to go from using 90->30% SoC down to 70-10% SoC.
 

webdriverguy

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#48
If you'd almost never actually need that 270 miles in your everyday life (e.g. not including trips that you know about in advance), and generally won't use much of that charge, then I agree, best to lower it. You probably won't get any meaningful improvement in lifespan below 70% or so SoC, and the difference between 80% and 70% will be minimal. Remember, though, that there's more wear on the bottom end of the SoC spectrum too, not just the top. So for example it'd be counterproductive to go from using 90->30% SoC down to 70-10% SoC.
So Elon had a interesting reply to a question that Kim from like tesla asked on Twitter. He said there is not much relative benefit of charging below 90%. I was charging 80% and now I am going to increase it to 85 or even 90%.

Here is the video

 

webdriverguy

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#49
So Elon had a interesting reply to a question that Kim from like tesla asked on Twitter. He said there is not much relative benefit of charging below 90%. I was charging 80% and now I am going to increase it to 85 or even 90%.

Here is the video

Plus towards the end of the video she talks about a graph ( I want to know where she got this from) where if you charged the battery from 100 (not ideal) or even from 95% and ran it down to 25% ( Elon says go even lower) and you did this for 1000 discharge cycles then you will prob see 10% degradation after 250-300k miles which is like nothing for the amount of miles driven.
 
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webdriverguy

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#50
Plus towards the end of the video she talks about a graph ( I want to know where she got this from) where if you charged the battery from 100 (not ideal) or even from 95% and ran it down to 25% ( Elon says go even lower) and you did this for 1000 discharge cycles then you will prob see 10% degradation after 250-300k miles. Which is massive.
I still after 5 months of ownership have not charged 100% I guess I should do that soon 😃
 
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rlb4

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#51
So Elon had a interesting reply to a question that Kim from like tesla asked on Twitter. He said there is not much relative benefit of charging below 90%. I was charging 80% and now I am going to increase it to 85 or even 90%.

Here is the video

So now we should charge to 90% but do we plug it in every night and top it off, even if we only drive 5-10% that day? Or do we let it drop to 10% before charging again?
 

KarenRei

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#52
So Elon had a interesting reply to a question that Kim from like tesla asked on Twitter. He said there is not much relative benefit of charging below 90%. I was charging 80% and now I am going to increase it to 85 or even 90%.

Here is the video

Elon's actual tweet was:


Then, when asked about a professor who said that 70% is best:


10% more SoC than 70% is 80%. Elon recommends 80%. But 90% is "fine".

Let's compare what I wrote with the above:

Me: "You probably won't get any meaningful improvement in lifespan below 70%"
Jeff Dahn: 70% is best.

Me: "The difference between 80% and 70% will be minimal."
Musk: "The relative benefit [of 70% vs. 80%] will be small."
 
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Lovesword

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#54
Me: "The difference between 80% and 70% will be minimal."
Musk: "The relative benefit [of 70% vs. 80%] will be small."
I vehemently disagree!!! What I believe is that the proportional return on investment concurrent forthwith elevating the charging strength from 70% to 80% will be minuscule!
 

garsh

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#55
So now we should charge to 90% but do we plug it in every night and top it off, even if we only drive 5-10% that day? Or do we let it drop to 10% before charging again?
Whichever is easier or more convenient for you. It's not going to make much of a difference.
 

KarenRei

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#56
So now we should charge to 90% but do we plug it in every night and top it off, even if we only drive 5-10% that day? Or do we let it drop to 10% before charging again?
Always plug in. It's always good to make power available to the car. And if you're worried about memory effects, li-ions don't have any.

I'd say the short summary would be:

* If you're really sure you're not going to need a significant amount of range the next day, even from random unexpected events: 70%
* If you're pretty sure you're not going to need a significant amount of range the next day, but are open to the possibility: 80%
* If there's a decent chance you might need a significant amount of range the next day: 90%
* If your normal daily driving distances are always cutting it close (or outright require topping up to get home): 95%
* If you're going on a long trip the next day: 100%
 

garsh

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#57
If you're going on a long trip the next day: 100%
But try to time things so that the car finishes charging right before you're ready to leave. Reaching 100% isn't too bad, but leaving the car sitting at 100% SOC for more than a few minutes has been shown to degrade a Li-ion battery (but not specifically a Tesla battery).
 

LUXMAN

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#58
Plus towards the end of the video she talks about a graph ( I want to know where she got this from) where if you charged the battery from 100 (not ideal) or even from 95% and ran it down to 25% ( Elon says go even lower) and you did this for 1000 discharge cycles then you will prob see 10% degradation after 250-300k miles. Which is massive.
That is not massive. I have a 3 year 10 month old Leaf with 46000 miles and it has already lost 18.5%, and I am one of the lucky ones with the "lizard" pack. Just ask @garsh
So that is a small amount and you probably wont realize that loss unless you are A) Unlucky or B) do lots of daily Supercharging like the TESLOOP guys.
Even if you kept the car for 10 years and drove 30k miles a year and had a 10% loss, the car would still be capable of 279 miles on a charge, so I don't think it is an issue.
 

FRC

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#59
I would suggest that everyone take a few minutes and watch the LikeTesla video in post#40. What spurred this video is that an M3 with 11k miles was showing max SOC at 270 miles. Tesla determined nothing wrong with battery. The problem was that the owners habit was to charge only to 50-70% SOC. This "taught" the battery that 270 was max range. To correct they had to repeatedly recharge to 90% and occasionally to 100%. The points that I took from this video:

1) Routinely charge to 90%. A lower routine charge "misinforms" the battery of it's range capacity. Yes, a lower routine charge is beneficial
for battery life(very minimally beneficial), but not for overall battery function.

2) Occasionally(monthly?) charge to 100% to let the battery know where the top end is. Importantly, do not allow the battery to sit idle
charged to 100%. Drive immediately until under 90%.

3) Similarly, occasionally run the battery below 10% to show the battery the bottom end.

4) Even if you abuse your battery and routinely charge to 100% and run in the 25-100% range you should expect 90% range after 300K miles
of use. Just don't supercharge any more than necessary
 
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KarenRei

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#60
But try to time things so that the car finishes charging right before you're ready to leave. Reaching 100% isn't too bad, but leaving the car sitting at 100% SOC for more than a few minutes has been shown to degrade a Li-ion battery (but not specifically a Tesla battery).
A good rule in general (trying to have charges finish shortly before you leave). Helps heat the pack as well :)