Optimal daily charging

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What percentage

  • 50%

    Votes: 3 0.9%
  • 60%

    Votes: 7 2.1%
  • 70%

    Votes: 65 19.5%
  • 80%

    Votes: 142 42.5%
  • 90%

    Votes: 115 34.4%
  • 100%

    Votes: 2 0.6%

  • Total voters
    334

Love

Tesla Quad Cities
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#21
Before passing judgment, the outlet is dedicated to my parking spot IMO.
Very cool! Wish more companies were like this.
I’ll also echo @garsh here and say that I don’t think there was intent by @MelindaV to judge. I find her to be very knowledgeable and a consummate voice of reason. I enjoy her input. At first when I joined M3OC I thought “Hey, why does she not like me?” as I deemed some of her responses to my own to be “negative.” However I couldn’t have been more wrong....I continued to visit here, post, read... and quickly discovered her passion for EVs, this community (and why they have correctly made her a mod) and her knowledge of the proper etiquette for chargers/superchargers in general. Especially since I tend to try for humor/silliness with my posts, so I had to accept that...well, I’m just not funny some (a lot of?) the times. I liken it to (and I hope this doesn’t offend) a Vulcan approach that takes logic and mathematics into greater consideration than other things like emotion/friendship. You having your own dedicated spot versus a public spot (which are far more competitive in larger EV markets*) is a perfect example of this. Her message rings true and is a good “FYI” for those new to EVs that might just be unaware. Similarly, like explaining the 1a, 1b, etc. approach to superchargers.

I’m rambling, I tend to do that. From your post I don’t gather that you were offended enough to need this long of a reply from me, and Melinda certainly doesn’t need my “defense” ...but here it is!

*mine is empty to the point I park there and not charge to go in/out of my local partnering grocery store and still see no other Teslas. I posited this grand discovery on TMC (another forum) and got absolutely BLASTED for my inconsiderate ways. /shrug. Some are so competitive people line up and have to wait just to charge!
 

tipton

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#22
on this same general topic - when should you actually choose to charge the car if you don't need to? if i charge my 3 to 80% i may not get to 30% for 3 sometimes even 4 days during a work week. should i charge to 80% daily? every other day? only when i get to around 30% remaining?

right now i've just been charging about every other day but i'm not sure what is best.
 

PNWmisty

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#23
right now i've just been charging about every other day but i'm not sure what is best.
It probably doesn't matter much. But it might be better to charge in the early morning hours a bit each day. Assuming the nights are cooler, this might keep the battery from thermally cycling as much. Things that stay a more consistent temperature tend to degrade more slowly.

But I'm guessing the difference might be really small.
 

garsh

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#24
For a long time, I had been thinking (conceptually) that any charge was a strain on the battery, since it was holding more energy than an empty battery.
It is kind of amazing how differently the various types of rechargeable batteries behave.
  • Lead Acid - Should be kept at 100% charge all the time.
  • Nickel (NiCd and NiMH) - Should be completely emptied regularly.
  • Lithium - Should be kept close to 50% as much as possible.
 

garsh

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#25
on this same general topic - when should you actually choose to charge the car if you don't need to? if i charge my 3 to 80% i may not get to 30% for 3 sometimes even 4 days during a work week. should i charge to 80% daily? every other day? only when i get to around 30% remaining?
As @PNWmisty says, it's not going to make that much of a difference. Personally, I'll probably charge mine to 80% every day. I'm more concerned about being able to go on a decent-length drive at a moment's notice than keeping the battery at 50% to baby it.
 

Brokedoc

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#26
SOC question: we've had a few long trips where we make it home with ~10% charge remaining. Leaving the battery with a high SOC is not ideal...same for a low SOC? Should I immediately start charging when I get home to get it closer to its comfort zone, or would it be OK to wait (battery sits at 5-10% for half a day) and charge overnight like we normally do?
Caveat: keep in mind that all of this advice is just general advice for maintaining Lithium-ion batteries. We don't know for sure if Tesla's specific chemistry behaves the same, but we're reasonably certain that it does.

10% probably isn't too bad. At that point, I'd let the cost of electricity determine what to do:
  • If electricity costs a lot less at night, then just wait to charge it overnight.
  • If the cost doesn't change, then I'd start charging it immediately to get to 50%.
Yesterday, when I first read these posts, I agreed with @garsh but this morning, I learned something new I wanted to share.

Tesloop's Model S is possibly the highest mileage Tesla on the planet. They operate a taxi/shuttle service between SoCal and Vegas. In 3 years, they've put on 400,000 miles! Their HV battery was replaced twice under warranty, once at 194k mi and again at 324k mi. With 6% degradation over the first 194k mi and 22% loss over the next 130k mi. Total maintenance expenses including scheduled annual maintenance was $19k ($0.05/mi)

Their situation is unique in that they exclusively use SC and were regularly going to low SOC and immediately charging to 100%. Tesla said this practice was high stress for the battery and made some recommendations:

* do not Supercharge on a regular basis (contrary to what @Troy recently posted)
* do not charge to 100% on a regular basis
* use scheduled charging to start charge 3 hours after end of drive at low SOC.

The last recommendation really surprised me but I guess the heat and chemical stress from deep discharging to low SOC then immediately SCing and adding more heat is worse for the battery than leaving at low SOC for 3 hours for the pack to cool before starting the charge cycle.

Despite this tortuous use of the battery in their car, I'm very impressed with how well the battery functioned. Tesloop expects to hit 1 million miles by the end of Tesla's 8 year warranty so I'm sure we will be getting more info regarding their experience.


https://www.teslarati.com/tesloop-tesla-model-s-400k-miles-battery-maintenance-cost/
 
Last edited:

KarenRei

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#27
Indeed. It's the extremes of a charge cycle that are the hardest on a battery, so why be hard on it when you don't need to?

Don't artificially constrain yourself out of fear when you need the range; the range is available so that you can use it, and any single full charge cycle on its own will have a pretty meaningless impact on battery life. But just don't be stupid and run it to 100% all the time when you're only going to be using 10% of that range, or charge at 120kW when you have no need to just because a supercharger happens to be nearby. I think the latter, BTW, is more of a Model S issue, in that superchargers were free but slower charging often cost money.
 

garsh

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#28
Their situation is unique in that they exclusively use SC and were regularly going to low SOC and immediately charging to 100%.
That's key. Supercharging puts a lot of stress on the battery. When you're adding energy at a rate of 300-400mph, that's more stressful on the battery than running the car at top speed!
* use scheduled charging to start charge 3 hours after end of drive at low SOC.
I just want to stress that this advice applies to supercharging directly after a drive to low SOC. I don't know if this would also be the best advice when you're planning a much less stressful L2 charge.
 

MelindaV

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#29
on this same general topic - when should you actually choose to charge the car if you don't need to? if i charge my 3 to 80% i may not get to 30% for 3 sometimes even 4 days during a work week. should i charge to 80% daily? every other day? only when i get to around 30% remaining?

right now i've just been charging about every other day but i'm not sure what is best.
Do you ever have unexpected trips? Do you occasionally have a work errand across town that you didn’t know about prior to getting to work that day? Do you have kids that may need to be picked up / dropped off at an out of the way location? Etc, etc...
my office is about 14 miles from home, and most of the time I end up with 30 miles a day of driving. but there are times I have to make a trip out to a job site that I wasn’t planning on that could be 40 miles away from the office. Or because there is a river between home and work, with just two ways across it, if there is some crazy traffic issue, the next closest way across is 50 miles up river - yeah, there have been times traffic has been bad enough on those two bridges to consider driving that extra 100 miles to get home (plus will be great practice for when the one collapses in an earthquake). My dad lives 25 miles the opposite direction and has been known to have unscheduled surgeries....
in other words, things come up and if you are able to charge your car like your cell phone, why wouldn’t you?
 

KarenRei

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#30
Do you ever have unexpected trips? Do you occasionally have a work errand across town that you didn’t know about prior to getting to work that day? Do you have kids that may need to be picked up / dropped off at an out of the way location? Etc, etc...
my office is about 14 miles from home, and most of the time I end up with 30 miles a day of driving. but there are times I have to make a trip out to a job site that I wasn’t planning on that could be 40 miles away from the office. Or because there is a river between home and work, with just two ways across it, if there is some crazy traffic issue, the next closest way across is 50 miles up river - yeah, there have been times traffic has been bad enough on those two bridges to consider driving that extra 100 miles to get home (plus will be great practice for when the one collapses in an earthquake). My dad lives 25 miles the opposite direction and has been known to have unscheduled surgeries....
in other words, things come up and if you are able to charge your car like your cell phone, why wouldn’t you?
Okay, so 30 + 80 = 110 miles. 30 + 50 = 80 miles. 30 + 50 * 2 = 130 miles. 30 + 25 * 2 = 80 miles.

You're claiming you need 310 miles available at the start of every day? 248 miles (80%) - nearly double any figure you listed above for unexpected emergency situations - won't do? 279 miles (90%)? Even 294 miles (95%)? Those extra 16 miles really that critical? In a car that can supercharge at nearly 500mph?
 

MelindaV

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#31
Okay, so 30 + 80 = 110 miles. 30 + 50 = 80 miles. 30 + 50 * 2 = 130 miles. 30 + 25 * 2 = 80 miles.

You're claiming you need 310 miles available at the start of every day? 248 miles (80%) - nearly double any figure you listed above for unexpected emergency situations - won't do? 279 miles (90%)? Even 294 miles (95%)? Those extra 16 miles really that critical? In a car that can supercharge at nearly 500mph?
I was not claiming to need 310, but see no issue plugging in each night to have a 80% charge ready. I also have work project sites that are 175 and 95 miles away, but would rarely need to go to one of those without a days notice.
We also do not have L.A. volume of superchargers here. Up until this last winter, the closest Superchargers were Sandy (30 miles east), woodburn (45 miles south) and centralia (90 miles north). Since then, two somewhat local ones have been added
 

Brokedoc

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#32
I just want to stress that this advice applies to supercharging directly after a drive to low SOC. I don't know if this would also be the best advice when you're planning a much less stressful L2 charge.
I'm not sure that it's possible to schedule supercharging. Just as it's not possible to adjust the current of supercharging like you can do with a L2 charger, Tesla wants you to charge quickly and vacate the charger for the next person.

I interpret Tesla's advice to schedule charging for 3 hours after a low SOC drive to mean that you should plug in at home and schedule your L2 charging for 3 hours in the future.
 

KarenRei

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#33
I was not claiming to need 310, but see no issue plugging in each night to have a 80% charge ready.
My mistake; I thought you were advocating for 100% :)

That said... if you're driving nearly 310 miles in a day... unless you're going in circles in town all day (wherein you're going much slower (taking longer to use up range) and have longer total range)... you're surely going to be going near a supercharger at some point ;)
 

MelindaV

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#34
My mistake; I thought you were advocating for 100% :)

That said... if you're driving nearly 310 miles in a day... unless you're going in circles in town all day (wherein you're going much slower (taking longer to use up range) and have longer total range)... you're surely going to be going near a supercharger at some point ;)
my point was, I would not let the battery deplete down to the amount of charge that would cover one normal day, when it takes 5 seconds to plug it in every night, because things come up ;)
 

jordanp123

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#35
I'm keeping mine on about 65-70% (I'm voting 70), and try not to let it dip below 30%. I'm just curious what everyone else is doing. I may bump it up to around 80% or so in the winter.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#36
I voted for 80%, but I charge daily to 85% or ~264 miles of range.

My daily commute is 60-70 miles, so plenty of cushion in there.
 

Reef Club

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#39
86.7% (269 miles). I drive 30 to 40 miles a day so I can recharge at night with no problems or take advantage of the numerous free chargers here in Orlando. BTW we have 3 Superchargers and 5 more are on the drawing board. Orlando is EV friendly!