New 2170 cell for Model S/X

TrevP

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#2
It's been assumed they would transition all their cars to the new cell format in due time. Keep in mind, they have to redesign the innards of the battery pack so that's the focus of the development effort.

In some ways this could push Model S and X packs beyond 100kWh
 

Guy Weathersby

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#3
It's been assumed they would transition all their cars to the new cell format in due time. Keep in mind, they have to redesign the innards of the battery pack so that's the focus of the development effort.

In some ways this could push Model S and X packs beyond 100kWh
Mr. Musk said last month that they had no plans for batteries beyond 100 for the S or X. So I would not expect a larger battery anytime soon.
 

Guy Weathersby

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#5
Elon meant that with the current batteries.
It is pretty clear to me from the context that he was not just referring to the current cells. "No plans to take X, S (or 3) above 100 kWh. Semi necessarily and pickup truck maybe will go above." Since the semi and pickup will obviously use the new cell, it is clear the 100 K limit is not based on the technology. It is a strategic decision. It will probably change at some point in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 

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#6
We'll probably see bigger battery packs in time but it makes sense. The goal is to give everyone EVs, not a select few massive range. Even with the Gigafactory the batteries will continue to be the bottleneck for how many cars they can make. Sales and service is another discussion but there are many suppliers for various parts but giant battery packs.. not so much.
 

TrevP

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#7
If they feel competitive pressure they might increase the pack size but since there's nothing else at the moment so they can say that.

"At the moment" is the key word in his statement. Mine was "could", not "would"
 
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Bobby Garrity

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#8
I am curious to know if this will be accompanied by changes to pricing or battery options. Maybe this will be the point when they get rid of the 90kWh option, as some are expecting they will do.
 

TrevP

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#9
It's always a possibility, especially in foreign markets where the Model S is very expensive. Here in Canada we have to pay an extra 6.1% NAFTA duty on the Model S (built into the price) on account of the current battery cells being made in Japan. The "foreign" content of that car (cells) makes for less than 50% made in the US so we have to pay an import duty on it.

We're hoping we don't have to pay that, especially on the Model 3, given the cells are made in the US now which could contribute to a better price than most would expect but I haven't been able to get confirmation on this from multiple emails and tweets to Tesla.
 

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#10
It's always a possibility, especially in foreign markets where the Model S is very expensive. Here in Canada we have to pay an extra 6.1% NAFTA duty on the Model S (built into the price) on account of the current battery cells being made in Japan. The "foreign" content of that car (cells) makes for less than 50% made in the US so we have to pay an import duty on it.

We're hoping we don't have to pay that, especially on the Model 3, given the cells are made in the US now which could contribute to a better price than most would expect but I haven't been able to get confirmation on this from multiple emails and tweets to Tesla.
Did you tell them who you are? :D
 

TrevP

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Did you tell them who you are? :D
I fired off another email to Tesla press this morning to see if I can get clarification on the Nafta matter. I don't expect a response though
 

Badback

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#12
It's always a possibility, especially in foreign markets where the Model S is very expensive. Here in Canada we have to pay an extra 6.1% NAFTA duty on the Model S (built into the price) on account of the current battery cells being made in Japan. The "foreign" content of that car (cells) makes for less than 50% made in the US so we have to pay an import duty on it.

We're hoping we don't have to pay that, especially on the Model 3, given the cells are made in the US now which could contribute to a better price than most would expect but I haven't been able to get confirmation on this from multiple emails and tweets to Tesla.
What happens if Trump kills NAFTA?
 

DaveIrina

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#14
Has anyone heard how well the 2170 batteries perform (how many charge/discharge cycles will they handle, at what point in their are they expected to fail and require replacement, how much would replacement cost, etc.)?

thanks
 

Ron Miller

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#17
There are occasional rumors of improvements that might make me lean toward delaying the purchase of a piece of technology. This isn't one of them. There's ample evidence that degradation will not be a concern for perhaps a decade. That leaves the possibility of eking out a little more range with a battery pack of the same weight with 2170s, but how often is an extra 10 or 20 miles going to allow you to pass a Supercharger that you'd otherwise have to stop at on a road trip? How often would that difference mean not having to get a charge before returning home at the end of the day? Almost never. I'll have no buyer's remorse if they put 2170s into Model S battery packs 6 months after my delivery. I think I'd go so far as to say I won't even care.
 

dudeman

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#18
There are occasional rumors of improvements that might make me lean toward delaying the purchase of a piece of technology. This isn't one of them. There's ample evidence that degradation will not be a concern for perhaps a decade. That leaves the possibility of eking out a little more range with a battery pack of the same weight with 2170s, but how often is an extra 10 or 20 miles going to allow you to pass a Supercharger that you'd otherwise have to stop at on a road trip? How often would that difference mean not having to get a charge before returning home at the end of the day? Almost never. I'll have no buyer's remorse if they put 2170s into Model S battery packs 6 months after my delivery. I think I'd go so far as to say I won't even care.
Agree Ron. I think Elon and Tesla has been trying to differentiate and clearly communicate that Tesla S/X is better product that M3. For them to say that S would use the same cell as M3 right now further pushes some folks to may be wait and get M3. Some people may confuse using same cell means they are not getting better car with S. (Hard to believe but it happens)

I know with M3, tesla has felt that they haven't communicated differences between S and M3 well enough. They just want to continue to anti sell M3 for next two quarters at least and keep differences clear.

I am glad that they are not confusing people by using 2170 right now in S.
 

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#19
Given the recent talk about upgrading the S and the X, especially with respect to the batteries, I reviewed old material. There was an article in InsideEVs by Eric Loveday (date not available) that says that the transition to 21700 would take place at the end of 2017. There was an article in Electrek by Fred Lambert on March 22 that says that the contract with Panasonic to supply 18650 batteries ends at the end of 2017. It would not surprise me for Tesla to switch over the batteries in the S and the X to the 21700 format early in 2018. It doesn’t make sense that the Model 3, the Semi and the Roadster are all using 21700 batteries while the “premium” cars run on 18650 batteries. I have all of my fingers and toes crossed (I guess that could be the arthritis helping) that it will happen before I order my S/X in April.