MT 4.8 sec 0-60 and more

UncleMoose

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#3
We can sleep easy knowing that we will beat the Semi off the line if it isn’t carrying anything.

That is unless they’ve sandbagged the numbers there as well ;)
And why does the article list a base price of 45 K dollars (and an as tested of 57,500)? Even if they are listing specifically for the LR model (which they reference in the article) it would be 49 K.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#4
And why does the article list a base price of 45 K dollars (and an as tested of 57,500)? Even if they are listing specifically for the LR model (which they reference in the article) it would be 49 K.
Maybe long range battery plus any color other than black?

Premium package won’t be forced forever.

Just a guess though...
 

ahagge

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#6
Along these lines, does anybody have a definitive answer as to the motor's output power? The Owners Guide lists 165 kW (or 221 HP) on page 136, but the EPA document shows 192 kW (257 HP) on page 14. Based on the claimed 0-60 times, I'm tempted to believe the latter.

Is this another Tesla undersell?
 

Sandy

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#7
Along these lines, does anybody have a definitive answer as to the motor's output power? The Owners Guide lists 165 kW (or 221 HP) on page 136, but the EPA document shows 192 kW (257 HP) on page 14. Based on the claimed 0-60 times, I'm tempted to believe the latter.

Is this another Tesla undersell?
It may be that the 221 was measured at the wheels and the 257 is the output at the motor. The difference (just like an ice car) is due to drivetrain losses.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#9
:mad: 0-60 times may not be that important in the grand scheme of life but..................if a semi beats my Model 3 I will NOT be happy!
I agree. 0-60 is actually completely meaningless to me. What’s important to me is the instant torque ... the ability to get from
30 to 70 or 80 is much more valuable.
 

UncleT

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#10
Along these lines, does anybody have a definitive answer as to the motor's output power? The Owners Guide lists 165 kW (or 221 HP) on page 136, but the EPA document shows 192 kW (257 HP) on page 14. Based on the claimed 0-60 times, I'm tempted to believe the latter.

Is this another Tesla undersell?
It may be that the 221 was measured at the wheels and the 257 is the output at the motor. The difference (just like an ice car) is due to drivetrain losses.
Max RPM is different also.

upload_2017-11-24_17-59-30.png

upload_2017-11-24_18-1-55.png
 

Rich M

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#11
I agree. 0-60 is actually completely meaningless to me. What’s important to me is the instant torque ... the ability to get from
30 to 70 or 80 is much more valuable.
In these days of perpetual construction zones with too-short on ramps and stop signs instead of yield signs for "safety", 0-60 is quite important to me. It's the difference in being able to go now or waiting - sometimes another 20-30 seconds for a gap in traffic big enough to go.
 

Scuffers

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#12
It may be that the 221 was measured at the wheels and the 257 is the output at the motor. The difference (just like an ice car) is due to drivetrain losses.
there will be some losses in the single speed transmission, but nothing like this (14%), a single transverse gear like that would typically be in the ~1-2% losses range (unless the gears are made from cheese and machined by a rabid monkey)
 

KarenRei

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#14
The nice thing about that 4,8s 0-60 is that you can now fairly compare M3 LR's 0-60 with the BMW 340i (while the SR is fairly compared to the 330i). You have two numbers for LR's 0-60 (4,8 and 5,1s), while the 340i has also been variously measured at 4,8 and 5,1s.

What comparison advantages does this give?
  • Price comparison: Model 3 LR begins at $44k. BMW 340i begins at $49k. Model 3 SR begins at $35k. BMW 330i begins at $40,3k.
  • Weight comparison: Model 3 LR's curb weight is 3814lbs. BMW 340i's is 3675-3704lbs. Model 3 SR's curb weight is 3549lbs. BMW 330i's is 3501-3541 lbs.
  • Range comparison: 3-series all have a 15.8-gallon tank. Model 3 LR has a city/combined/highway range of 347/334/318 miles, respectively (SR has not yet been tested). BMW 340i (manual transmission) mpgs are 19/23/29, corresponding to 300/363/458 miles, respectively. BMW 340i (automatic transmission) mpgs are 21/25/32, corresponding to 332/395/506 miles, respectively. BMW 330i (manual transmission) mpgs are 21/25/32, corresponding to 300/363/506 miles, respectively. BMW 330i (automatic transmission) mpgs are 23/27/34, corresponding to 363/427/537 miles, respectively.
  • Operating cost comparison: Model 3 LR works with 78,2 kWh usable (on a 80,5 kWh pack) and takes 89,4kWh to recharge, representing city/combined/highway energy consumptions of 258/267/281 Wh/mi (SR should be about 2,5%(hwy)-4%(city) lower). At US average residential electricity rates of 13,19 cents per kWh, that's $0,034/$0,035/$0,037 per mile, respectively for the LR, or for the average 13476mi/year, $459/$476/$499 for the LR (for the SR: $441/$461/$487). At US average gasoline prices per gallon of $2,561/gal, the 340i (manual) works out to $1816/$1501/$1190; the 340i (automatic) costs $1643/$1380/1079; the 330i (manual) costs $1643/$1380/$1079; and the 330i (automatic) costs $1501/$1278/$1015. This equates to LR annual savings of $1358/$1024/$691 (340i manual) and $1185/$904/$579 (340i automatic), and SR annual savings of $1202/$919/$591 (330i manual) and $1060/$817/$528 (330i automatic). Savings are roughly doubled in Europe, where the average electricity rate is $0,243/kWh and the average gasoline price is $5,465/gal.
Model 3, of course, not only wins on price, operating costs, and is surprisingly close in weight (and for LR, range), but also wins on the feature comparison front. And we're of course ignoring credits and maintenance.
 
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SoFlaModel3

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#16
I'm more interested in how it stacks up against the Audi A4/5 Quattro platform.
Top end A4 hits $53k. It’s a nice car no doubt, but I’ll still take the Tesla all day everyday.

0-60 is 5.6 as compared to our 5.1 (possibly 4.8)
Warranty is much shorter
Maintenance costs are much higher
Uses gas
Etc...
 

KarenRei

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#17
A4: we can rule out the "ultra" series, with its >7 second 0-60 ;) The non-ultra gasoline engines slot in between the Model 3 LR and SR (and thus the 340i and 330i) in 0-60 times. MSRP is $40,5k, which is also between LR and SR (but about the same price as the 330i). Fuel economy is pretty good, 24/27/33 for manual and 24/27/34 for automatic. Annual fueling costs are $1442/$1282/$1049, yielding a cost increase over the SR of $1001/$820/$562 and versus the LR of $983/$806/$549. City range is similar to the 330i but highway range closer to the 340i - 367/413/505 mi (versus LR's 347/334/318).

It's the operating cost difference that kills the comparison for the gasoline vehicles - vs. all of them. I mean, that's a lot of money to get hit for, every year. And on average doubled in Europe.

As for feature-by-feature comparisons, like most manufacturers, they break "PUP" up into smaller packages, in which some things that are standard on Model 3 slot into on them; it makes it harder to do comparisons. And of course there's also various value judgment things - for example, Audi is fond of sticking dead cows in their cars, while I'm not ;) But some pretty sizeable things are tucked into options packages, IMHO - anything more than FM/bluetooth radio, driver info display (only 7" at that), remote start (still can't run it in enclosed spaces, vastly fewer remote features), alarm, 18" wheels are an extra, rear side airbags (Model 3's curtain goes all the way back), collision warning, automatic emergency braking, lane assist, etc, and some things many consider essentials aren't even available as options (dual motor awd + air suspension, performance package, EAP/FSD (they have their own "EAP" but it's not as capable)). But, you get the aforementioned dead cows standard, power seats standard (though power steering adjust isn't an option), more paint colour options, more car components heated standard (maybe? mixed info), and a few other things that are hard to quantify versus the things that Model 3 comes with standard (lots of value judgments involved - for example, does "vented glovebox" sound better than "valet-lockout glovebox"?).

Oh, and their rain sensor probably works ;) *bazinga!*
 
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Lovesword

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#18
I don't know why anyone isn't comparing the Model 3 to the most obvious car to compare it to. The 2012 Kia Optima EX with its 0-60 time of 8 seconds*, 1/4 mile time of 16.2 seconds*, this is the car we should all be considering, right? I mean...I currently own one but that isn't relevant.

*hahahaha, yeah right. Maybe when it was new.
 

Prodigal Son

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#19
Top end A4 hits $53k. It’s a nice car no doubt, but I’ll still take the Tesla all day everyday.

0-60 is 5.6 as compared to our 5.1 (possibly 4.8)
Warranty is much shorter
Maintenance costs are much higher
Uses gas
Etc...
If tesla completely crapped the bed on the ramp and my current car needed an immediate replacement, a loaded A4 (except for rear airbags [I don’t sit back there, why spend the money?] and upgraded wheels [zzzz]) was going to be my backup car. Now that there’s a reasonable chance of getting my Model 3 in the next 2-5 months (supposedly a Jan-Mar window... I’m not confident but it’s at least possible) I’m hoping it won’t come to that (hopefully the current car cooperates).

The A4 does have ventilated seats as an advantage though, which I wish tesla could figure out how to do properly. Also AWD, but it’s not Tesla’s fault that I’m not willing to wait another year for that.
 

Scuffers

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#20
Maybe I should have been more specific!

I am currently driving round in an A5, I have had a string of A/S/4/5's so have a pretty good handle on what they are like.

What I am interested in is how the 3 stacks up in terms of space, build quality, seating, fit & finish, road holding, handling, usability, etc etc.

For me, the interior is going to be key, I'm all for a minimalistic approach, the question is just how well put together will they be and what quality of materials they use.

My single biggest gripe with the S is the interior, I don't really like the design, but the bigger problem is it looks/feels low-volume aftermarket in both fit and finish, the current X is better, but still have issues with choice of materials and design (based on my personal preferences!)

I kind of forgive the S as it's clearly an American styled car, (and being blunt, I don't like any US designed saloon car, and going by overseas sales, I'm not alone!), the 3 really needs to get this right, and from pictures/video's seen so far, I think it's certainly got a excellent chance of meeting my expectations, however, I really want to see/play with one first hand.