Model Y 18” winter wheel set up and Load concerns

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Stakis

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Hello Model Y family.

Looking to get some answers from those of you that have gone with an 18” wheel set up on winter tires.

I’m mainly trying to find what the standard 19” Gemini load rating is and what the range for safe operation is. The 18” EV01 and 18” Replika R241 are the 2 I’m looking at and they show a load rating of about 1500 LBS.
the 19” versions go up to 1900/2000 lbs.

Should I be concerned about the lower load rating?

Is there a resource you can point me to with the facts?
@Mad Hungarian any insights?

Thanks everyone!
 

Mad Hungarian

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Hello Model Y family.

Looking to get some answers from those of you that have gone with an 18” wheel set up on winter tires.

I’m mainly trying to find what the standard 19” Gemini load rating is and what the range for safe operation is. The 18” EV01 and 18” Replika R241 are the 2 I’m looking at and they show a load rating of about 1500 LBS.
the 19” versions go up to 1900/2000 lbs.

Should I be concerned about the lower load rating?

Is there a resource you can point me to with the facts?
@Mad Hungarian any insights?

Thanks everyone!
In a word, YES, be concerned! And thanks for bringing it up, I am always clanging this bell and I'm beginning to feel a lot like Quasimodo, trapped alone in the belfry.

Although the exact maximum Gross Axle Weight Rating on a Y varies by trim and OE wheel diameter - 19" is 3600 lbs / 20" is 3300 lbs / 21" is 3500 lbs - all versions are considerably higher than Model 3. So even though they have near identical wheel/hub specs, you must NEVER assume that a wheel designed for Model 3 will work safely on Model Y. Even the lowest rating for the 20" LR trim still needs a wheel that is rated to at least 1650 lbs, whereas the Model 3 only needs 1380 lbs to pass its heaviest axle requirement.

The problem we frequently see is that the general standard used for establishing load ratings for aftermarket wheels - JWL/VIA - indicates that the normal load rating for a 5x114.3 PCD is 690 kg / 1521 lbs. This works for the vast majority of cars and lighter SUV/CUVs, but in the case of Model Y it's 129 lbs under the lowest requirement and 229 lbs under what the heaviest one needs. However there's nothing that says you can't build to a higher rating, and that's the exact reason why built the 19x9.5 R241 and EV01+ to exceed the heaviest Y requirements.

Now as to why we didn't bother making an 18" with the required load for Y? The main reason that the most folks want an 18" option for winter minus sizing, but there are zero winter tires available in the ideal 18" size to match performance characteristics, which would be 255/50R18. Now, you could in theory run a 235/55R18, but we're now getting into a very grey zone as Tesla doesn't offer anything on the Y in that diameter or section width. This in turn means that if this likely much wobblier tire doesn't play well with the ABS, Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control or Regen, the big T is under no obligation to fix it like they did with the regen problem on early Model 3s running soft winter tires in the OE size.

Bottom line: If you can find an 18" wheel with all the right specs - most importantly a sufficient load rating - to match your trim of Model Y you can definitely fit it. But if the 18" tire selected causes ABS/TC/ESC/Regen side effects, you may well be on your own to deal with it.
 
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EV01+ to exceed the heaviest Y requirements.
I have a model Y performance, and I’m looking to buy a set of EV01+ to switch to for road trips etc. Is anyone doing a wheel tire package with these wheels that would include everything I need pre-installed with mount/balance, Tesla TPMS etc? Ready to install? If not, what is the best place to purchase the wheels alone? I’m in So California if that matters.
 

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I have a model Y performance, and I’m looking to buy a set of EV01+ to switch to for road trips etc. Is anyone doing a wheel tire package with these wheels that would include everything I need pre-installed with mount/balance, Tesla TPMS etc? Ready to install? If not, what is the best place to purchase the wheels alone? I’m in So California if that matters.
You can reach out to aftermarketev.com for the wheels, however I must leave it to our members in the Orange county area to give recommendations on who can best serve you for the tires and installation.
Note that you must get the TPMS sensors directly from Tesla as there are no aftermarket units available for the new Bluetooth type on Model Y.
 

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You can reach out to aftermarketev.com for the wheels, however I must leave it to our members in the Orange county area to give recommendations on who can best serve you for the tires and installation.
Note that you must get the TPMS sensors directly from Tesla as there are no aftermarket units available for the new Bluetooth type on Model Y.
Thank you @Mad Hungarian. I will go ahead and order the wheels from them and then source the tires from a local shop and the TPMS from Tesla.

Also, in a pinch, would It be safe to to use one the 19 inch EV01+ wheels with correct sized tires as a spare if one of my OEM 21 inch Uber turbine wheels has a flat?

Thank for your incredibly valuable insights! We’d all be lost without your wisdom around here.

Edit: follow up question: If road tripping with the ev01’s, would it be okay to throw one of the Uber turbines in the trunk as a spare, and if yes, would you all advise taking the smaller front wheel or the wider rear wheel?
 
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Mad Hungarian

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Thank you @Mad Hungarian. I will go ahead and order the wheels from them and then source the tires from a local shop and the TPMS from Tesla.

Also, in a pinch, would It be safe to to use one the 19 inch EV01+ wheels with correct sized tires as a spare if one of my OEM 21 inch Uber turbine wheels has a flat?

Thank for your incredibly valuable insights! We’d all be lost without your wisdom around here.

Edit: follow up question: If road tripping with the ev01’s, would it be okay to throw one of the Uber turbines in the trunk as a spare, and if yes, would you all advise taking the smaller front wheel or the wider rear wheel?

Using one of the 19" EV01s as a spare for the Uberturbines?
Will be fine as a front replacement because the 28.0" O.D. of the 255/45R19 matches that of the 255/35R21 exactly.
But not a good idea for the rear as the 275/35R19 has much bigger 28.8" O.D. and mixing the two overall diameter tires on the same axle will almost certainly upset the ABS/TC/ESC systems.

Using one of the front 21" Uberturbines as a spare for the 19" EV01 set?
No problem at all because they match as described above.
 
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garsh

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But not a good idea for the rear as the 275/35R19 has much bigger 28.8" O.D. and mixing the two overall diameter tires on the same axle will almost certainly upset the ABS/TC/ESC systems.
Often a mini spare tire will have a smaller overall diameter than the tire it is replacing. Might be worth having someone perform a test to see if a Tesla will work OK in this scenario.
 
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Mad Hungarian

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Often a mini spare tire will have a smaller overall diameter than the tire it is replacing. Might be worth having someone perform a test to see if a Tesla will work OK in this scenario.
Definitely worth a try.
 
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Achooo

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Using one of the 19" EV01s as a spare for the Uberturbines?
Will be fine as a front replacement because the 28.0" O.D. of the 255/45R19 matches that of the 255/35R21 exactly.
But not a good idea for the rear as the 275/35R19 has much bigger 28.8" O.D. and mixing the two overall diameter tires on the same axle will almost certainly upset the ABS/TC/ESC systems.

Using one of the front 21" Uberturbines as a spare for the 19" EV01 set?
No problem at all because they match as described above.
Perfect! Thank you for the valuable insight. This means that until someone runs that test, I’ll do all the road tripping on the EV01+ wheels carrying a front uberturbine as a spare.
 

garsh

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This means that until someone runs that test, I’ll do all the road tripping on the EV01+ wheels carrying a front uberturbine as a spare.
Since you actually have the wheels & tires, would you consider trying it out? :)
 

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Since you actually have the wheels & tires, would you consider trying it out? :)

Haha. I’m a little squeamish to want to experiment with such things.

Other than throwing error codes with the ABS/TC/ESC systems, isn’t there a risk to damaging something in the drive train if the wheels are spinning at different rates due to the difference in O.D.?

Also, I don’t quite have the ev01’s yet. Will be ordering in the next few weeks.
 

garsh

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Other than throwing error codes with the ABS/TC/ESC systems, isn’t there a risk to damaging something in the drive train if the wheels are spinning at different rates due to the difference in O.D.?
Not at all. Every car has to deal with left & right tires spinning at different rates every time you go around a curve.
This old GM video does a great job of explaining it.

 
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garsh

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Other than throwing error codes with the ABS/TC/ESC systems
I'll also mention that, back when I had my Nissan Leaf, I put larger-diameter-than-OEM tires on it, and this caused the TC system to have a fit going around some curves at higher speeds. I wound up disabling TC for every drive. But note that all four wheels & tires were identical, so it doesn't necessarily take mismatched tires to cause issues with these electronic nannies.

ACtC-3diFy1WDKz1-BNyEc1H7dAwOl55DSHqDi0Pv08wXZcGRhk6vLCqrkEB08M3qdcdKz5qg255IjZyKKMwcVsOAInooyXQxcFWURW0ACRcBujZxETIXvjcmSeR7ww_7pvkXRlC9eEGXkmHSf1IgFjITBdQbQ=s800-no


I don't think you'll have this particular issue in a Tesla though. There have been a few people who have gone with slightly larger diameter tires, and nobody has reported having any issues that I can recall.
 
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Mad Hungarian

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I'll also mention that, back when I had my Nissan Leaf, I put larger-diameter-than-OEM tires on it, and this caused the TC system to have a fit going around some curves at higher speeds. I would up disabling TC for every drive. But note that all four wheels & tires were identical, so it doesn't necessarily take mismatched tires to cause issues with these electronic nannies.

ACtC-3diFy1WDKz1-BNyEc1H7dAwOl55DSHqDi0Pv08wXZcGRhk6vLCqrkEB08M3qdcdKz5qg255IjZyKKMwcVsOAInooyXQxcFWURW0ACRcBujZxETIXvjcmSeR7ww_7pvkXRlC9eEGXkmHSf1IgFjITBdQbQ=s800-no


I don't think you'll have this particular issue in a Tesla though. There have been a few people who have gone with slightly larger diameter tires, and nobody has reported having any issues that I can recall.
Agree with @garsh , you absolutely won't cause any mechanical damage on a Tesla trying this, it's just a question of how much difference the electronics will tolerate before intervening. There's a lot of old ICE tech thinking we need to lose when working with these cars, like the fact that in the case of AWD models the front and rear drivetrains are not in any way mechanically linked, so you can run different front and rear diameter tires without fear of permanently damaging anything, and the vehicle appears to "learn" them as well and usually won't object (you definitely do NOT want to do this with an AWD ICE drivetrain, I had one of our retailers call a few years back to report a client this with a BMW 530i xDrive with a front/rear difference in O.D. of about 2% and after only a month of driving the center differential failed... $3K to replace).

However it's been tricky so far to discover exactly how far you can push our cars in this regard before the electronics do intervene, and it isn't always obvious what will do it. As I just said above... usually won't object. Here's a strange case where it did:
My friend Pierre, a retired engineer who used to direct operations at the Transport Canada facility where we tested the EV01, installed staggered front/rear OD tires on his Dual Motor 3 and it practically refused to go more than a few hundred yards without triggering the whole ABS/TC/ECS suite, rendering it pretty much undrivable. This was with the bigger OD tires in the rear. But get this... swap them around and with the bigger OD in front the car drove just fine!
(insert image of dog with tilted head here)
Now I'd seen plenty of identical setups to what he was running work perfectly before, however in this case there was just one additional factor added: his new TPMS sensors hadn't yet paired with the car. After a day or two of trying to resolve that we swapped the sensors for him and after the new ones paired everything worked perfectly, the car no longer cared whether the larger tires were in front or in back.

My guess (and it is only that) is that when Model 3 can't read the TPMS it may defer to an "Indirect" mode of looking at the individual wheel speeds to see if there's a potential pressure problem and this back-up mode in turn greatly reduces the allowable range of front/rear rpm variance before triggering a control intervention. What's weird though is that it's way more easily triggered when it sees the fronts turning faster than the rears. A further guess is that since both RWD and AWD Model 3s tend to wear their rear tires quite a bit faster than the fronts that means a lot of the time those rears will be turning a bit faster than the fronts, so there may be an inherent bias in the front/rear range limits to accommodate for that when in this indirect TPMS fault mode.

In any case, I would love to see the left/right different OD experiment run to find out what happens!
 
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garsh

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however in this case there was just one additional factor added: his new TPMS sensors hadn't yet paired with the car.
Which would be exactly the situation you would be in if you put a "spare tire" on the car.
Ugh! That's terrible.

Perhaps a single missing TPMS sensor would be treated differently?
I'd really like to see someone test this out now. :)

I've always thrown one of my winter wheels/tires in the trunk as a spare tire when I go on a long roadtrip. I'm probably fine, since the OD is about the same. But it never even occurred to me that the car might refuse to move due to such a small difference.
 

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Which would be exactly the situation you would be in if you put a "spare tire" on the car.
Ugh! That's terrible.

Perhaps a single missing TPMS sensor would be treated differently?
I'd really like to see someone test this out now. :)

I've always thrown one of my winter wheels/tires in the trunk as a spare tire when I go on a long roadtrip. I'm probably fine, since the OD is about the same. But it never even occurred to me that the car might refuse to move due to such a small difference.
Actually as long as whatever spare wheel you used had a legit TPMS sensor in it - as would be the case in the scenarios we've discussed so far - the electronic interventions would only in theory happen in the time it took to recognize the new spare unit. I've never had it take longer than about 2-3 miles or 5 mins of driving for my car to recognize a new set of sensors (and I have a whole slew of different brand ones on different sets) so in an emergency scenario I think I could live with the car beeping, crying and possibly tapping the brakes for that long till it found the new sensor.
However I've seen/heard of cases where it's taken quite a bit longer and that could be much more problematic.
 
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Achooo

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This is all very interesting. I will certainly do some experimentation once I’ve gotten my hands on these wheels/tires. Be warned though, it’ll be a few weeks. Will report back as soon as I can. I LOVE this forum for conversations like this. I learn so much from you all.
 

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Hey. I’d love to see some picks of your Model Y with the EV01s once they’re installed!!
Here’s a picture of it now! I’ll certainly update with the other wheels when I can.

 
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Not at all. Every car has to deal with left & right tires spinning at different rates every time you go around a curve.
This old GM video does a great job of explaining it.

That video is cool AF. I always only sort-of got how differentials worked. Thinking of the gear as a lever on a pivot really brings it together. Thanks for sharing!
 
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