Model 3 Wifi

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Chan B

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#1
Anyone Know what kind of Wifi the Model 3 is using. As far as Google Mesh is concerned Its on able to go up to Max 284 Mbps and on a 5ghz channel. so I am assuming its wireless N. Kinda Weird Tesla didn't give wireless AC chipset for future use. any educational input would be appreciated.
 

TirianW

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#2
Good Afternoon,
I don't have my model 3 yet, but based on what I saw on the FCC application and what I have learned from the Tesla representatives, the model 3 has a 2.4 GHz only radio supporting 802.11B and G datarates. Also it only supports Open and WPA/WPA2 PSK networks, no support for WPA2 802.11X. Finally, from what I have been able to tell, it is IPv4 only. Once I get my car I will have much more to report, but for now this is all I know.
 

Ed Woodrick

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#3
I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure that it won't support AC as there is absolutely no need for it to. No need to spend that amount of money and implement an antenna array to support it. Good ole B does a great job allowing downloading of updates.

I always love seeing people getting AC routers when they only have 10 Mbps Internet connectivity.
 

Chan B

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#4
I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure that it won't support AC as there is absolutely no need for it to. No need to spend that amount of money and implement an antenna array to support it. Good ole B does a great job allowing downloading of updates.

I always love seeing people getting AC routers when they only have 10 Mbps Internet connectivity.
Future Proofing? Just in case they want to get gigabit when and if its available in their area. Also AC Spec Routers have bigger range area + MIMO + Local Network watching movie on Roku, Plex etc etc. AC Routers have their uses without fast internet but I agree Tesla could have used that low end spec since they have no use for the faster speeds.
 
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Chan B

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#5
Good Afternoon,
I don't have my model 3 yet, but based on what I saw on the FCC application and what I have learned from the Tesla representatives, the model 3 has a 2.4 GHz only radio supporting 802.11B and G datarates. Also it only supports Open and WPA/WPA2 PSK networks, no support for WPA2 802.11X. Finally, from what I have been able to tell, it is IPv4 only. Once I get my car I will have much more to report, but for now this is all I know.
Well , Thats interesting I know for fact that it connected to my 5ghz network unless the google Wifi app is lying. Which I don't think it is since my old wireless printer with no AirPrint showed up as Wireless G on 2.4 Ghz max 54Mbps.
Also as far as speed is concerned tested with iPhone connect speed no internet speed iPhone came at around 480Mbps while doing the test on the Model 3 it came at 284 Mbps. So it has to be at least a "N" Wifi Spec. Surprised!! thats all my internet maxes out at 160Mbps so I am not complaining.
 

Ole1

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#7
sorry ... i am not an IT tech ... what does all this mean to an average users ? Do we get a useable wifi signal from our M3 ?
 

TirianW

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#8
sorry ... i am not an IT tech ... what does all this mean to an average users ? Do we get a useable wifi signal from our M3 ?
Good Afternoon,
Actually, this works the other way - it is to let your M3 connect to a WiFi signal. For example, there is little to no cellular coverage where I live, so this will allow me to use the app to control my car when it is at home.
 

John

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#9
sorry ... i am not an IT tech ... what does all this mean to an average users ? Do we get a useable wifi signal from our M3 ?
They have promised "hot spot functionality" one day, but it's not available yet.

Probably will be tied to a paid plan someday, since overwhelmingly people will use it like they use the internet generally: to watch video. In North America, literally half of all internet bandwidth is used for Netflix and YouTube. So before they open that up 1GB (SD) to 3GB (HD) per hour stream to consumers—and remember, more than one person at a time my use it—they'll want you to be paying that freight, not them.
 

TirianW

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#10
Well , Thats interesting I know for fact that it connected to my 5ghz network unless the google Wifi app is lying. Which I don't think it is since my old wireless printer with no AirPrint showed up as Wireless G on 2.4 Ghz max 54Mbps.
Also as far as speed is concerned tested with iPhone connect speed no internet speed iPhone came at around 480Mbps while doing the test on the Model 3 it came at 284 Mbps. So it has to be at least a "N" Wifi Spec. Surprised!! thats all my internet maxes out at 160Mbps so I am not complaining.
So I was wrong, it looks like they updated it. I am a little surprised that they did because both of those changes assume good RF environments. The 5.2 GHz band does not penetrate structures as well as the 2.4 GHz band, so for outdoor environments where you will be relying on an indoor access point, preferring or only supporting the 2.4 GHz band is not unreasonable. From the pictures posted on another thread there is an external antenna in the driver's side mirror (but not on the passenger's side) so the other(s) are probably inside the car and the body will limit the coverage. The 802.11N datarates rely on MIMO for speeds over 100 Mbps (yes, technically there are PHY rates over 100 Mbps with a single spacial stream, but they require 40 MHz channels and minimal to no interference which is relatively uncommon in real world environments), so getting those speeds would require at least two of the antennas on the car having good RF performance relative to the AP. If both side mirrors had had WiFi antennas in them then MIMO would have been a no brainier, but external+internal may not actually provide a speed improvement in most environments (trying higher PHY rates, then failing back to lower ones because of errors does overall slow things down, it is not uncommon to improve overall performance by disabling higher datarates / spacial streams that are unlikely to actually work). On one hand, enabling features that exist on the WiFi chipset is reasonable, the question is whether or not there is an overall improvement in user experience. This use case is one where there is a minor amount of real-time traffic (charge status, HVAC control, etc) which needs to be handled quickly and occasionally a lot of best-effort traffic (the multi-gig software updates) which has hours to transfer. Neither of those use cases places as much emphasis on high throughput as it does on good coverage. For EVs, it is reasonable to assume that it will be parked within 10' or so of the building (the practical length of the EVSE cable from the nearest outlet), but it is not uncommon for the AP to be installed at the other end of the house (through multiple walls / floors). So I would have expected them to prioritize features that would have increased performance in challenging RF environments over things that only work in cleaner RF environments.
 
Last edited:
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#11
How can I tell if it is connected to my home wifi? I configured it, and it found the router and accepted the password. When I pull into the garage, it shows my home wifi with green indication and a checkmark. However, it also shows continuously searching for wifi. And looking at my router, it doesn't show connected to a Tesla.
 
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#12
Good ole B does a great job allowing downloading of updates.
I always love seeing people getting AC routers when they only have 10 Mbps Internet connectivity.
Few things here, B has the absolute worst security and should be avoided at all cost. Additionally, having a 10mbs internet connection has nothing do to with AC router. You could simply have a bunch of local content (think AppleTV and a NAS) that you need high speed networks to transfer.

I dont know what type of WIFI chip is in the M3 but it only connect to my 2.4Ghz network
 
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#13
When I pull into the garage, it shows my home wifi with green indication and a checkmark. However, it also shows continuously searching for wifi. And looking at my router, it doesn't show connected to a Tesla.
As long as the icon change from LTE to Wifi it means you're connected, additionally your Tesla will show up on your router as
LG Innotek.
 

TirianW

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#14
Few things here, B has the absolute worst security and should be avoided at all cost. Additionally, having a 10mbs internet connection has nothing do to with AC router. You could simply have a bunch of local content (think AppleTV and a NAS) that you need high speed networks to transfer.
No disagreement on local content, but I would like to point out that it is important to not confuse the OSI layer 1 (physical) protocols with the OSI layer 2 (Datalink) protocols. In this case, 802.11b is a layer 1 protocol, where as WEP, WPA, and WPA2 (and WPA3 soon) are layer 2 security protocols. You can implement WPA2 over 802.11b, just like you can implement WEP over 802.11b. Now, older hardware does not support the encryption algorithms required for more secure standards so some old devices may not be able to associate, but saying that 802.11b is insecure is incorrect; security is handled by a completely different set of standards. Now, having said all that, I absolutely agree that WEP and WPA-TKIP are very insecure and should not be used. Old wireless access points are insecure because they don't support AES encryption, not because they support 802.11b.
 
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#15
So I was wrong, it looks like they updated it. I am a little surprised that they did because both of those changes assume good RF environments. The 5.2 GHz band does not penetrate structures as well as the 2.4 GHz band, so for outdoor environments where you will be relying on an indoor access point, preferring or only supporting the 2.4 GHz band is not unreasonable. From the pictures posted on another thread there is an external antenna in the driver's side mirror (but not on the passenger's side) so the other(s) are probably inside the car and the body will limit the coverage. The 802.11N datarates rely on MIMO for speeds over 100 Mbps (yes, technically there are PHY rates over 100 Mbps with a single spacial stream, but they require 40 MHz channels and minimal to no interference which is relatively uncommon in real world environments), so getting those speeds would require at least two of the antennas on the car having good RF performance relative to the AP. If both side mirrors had had WiFi antennas in them then MIMO would have been a no brainier, but external+internal may not actually provide a speed improvement in most environments (trying higher PHY rates, then failing back to lower ones because of errors does overall slow things down, it is not uncommon to improve overall performance by disabling higher datarates / spacial streams that are unlikely to actually work). On one hand, enabling features that exist on the WiFi chipset is reasonable, the question is whether or not there is an overall improvement in user experience. This use case is one where there is a minor amount of real-time traffic (charge status, HVAC control, etc) which needs to be handled quickly and occasionally a lot of best-effort traffic (the multi-gig software updates) which has hours to transfer. Neither of those use cases places as much emphasis on high throughput as it does on good coverage. For EVs, it is reasonable to assume that it will be parked within 10' or so of the building (the practical length of the EVSE cable from the nearest outlet), but it is not uncommon for the AP to be installed at the other end of the house (through multiple walls / floors). So I would have expected them to prioritize features that would have increased performance in challenging RF environments over things that only work in cleaner RF environments.
Your comment got me thinking. I was having trouble recently connecting from the app to the car while it was in the garage. This trouble started about the same time I changed my routine to FOLD the mirrors before entering the garage. I just went out to the car and unfolded the mirrors. I was then able to connect to 2.5GHz quickly and the car now shows up on the mobile app as it did when I first purchased. This is not an exact test but it does seem that folding affects the performance of the wifi antenna.