Model 3 charging could support up to 210KW

Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
87
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Country
Country
#1
Taken from Reddit user:
DukeDarkside

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/FOI_HTSLV00.0L13_APPIPT1.PDF

08.08 Maximum 525 amps from supercharger.
Would that mean that the maximum charging speed of the Model 3 Long Range could be 210kWh (525 ampere and 400 Volt) or about 861 miles per hour at 244 Wh/mi?
That means that you could charge 143 miles of range in 10 minutes with supercharger V3.0 ;-)


Please be able to get 80% in 30 minutes!!!
 

RandyS

Active Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
153
Location
San Diego
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#2
Even if there were an existing Supercharger setup that could deliver 525A (and there may be someday), it is a tapering system that reduces current flow as the charging progresses in order to avoid overheating the battery. The Model 3 Press Kit page has more information about the charging rate (such as 170 miles of supercharger range added in 30 minutes to the long range battery/car)...

https://www.tesla.com/presskit/autopilot?redirect=no
OPTIONS

Long Range Battery - $9,000
  • Range: 310 miles
  • Supercharging rate: 170 miles of range per 30 minutes
  • Home charging rate: 37 miles of range per hour (240V outlet, 40A)
  • 0-60 mph: 5.1 seconds
  • Top speed: 140 mph
 

Troy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
385
Location
London, UK
Country
Country
#4
Hi. I think the maximum power would be 184 kW instead of 210. This is still a lot more than the current Model S/X at maximum 120 kW. The Model 3 pack voltage is 350V, not 400V. Therefore I think the calculation should be 350V*525A= 183,750 W= 184 kW. The 60 kWh Model S pack is also 350V. In this video, you can see the that Supercharging power does not exceed 350V.

The important thing here is that 525A is real. You can see it on page 9 here in the newly discovered EPA document. The current Superchargers can't deliver that much power but when Tesla releases the Supercharger V3, the Model 3 will most likely be able to make use of that and none of the current Model S/X will be able to. Elon tweeted about Supercharger V3 here.
 
Last edited:

phigment

Active Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
69
Location
Waterloo
Country
Country
#5
Hi. I think the maximum power would be 184 kW instead of 210. This is still a lot more than the current Model S/X at maximum 120 kW. The Model 3 pack voltage is 350V, not 400V. Therefore I think the calculation should be 350V*525A= 183,750 W= 184 kW.

The 60 kWh Model S pack is also 350V. In this video, you can see the that Supercharging power does not exceed 350V.

The important thing here is that 525A is real. You can see it on page 9 here on the newly discovered EPA document. The current Superchargers can't deliver that much power but when Tesla releases the Supercharger V3, the Model 3 will most likely be able to make use of that and none of the current Model S/X will be able to. Elon tweeted about Supercharger V3 here.
Do we have similar documents for model S and X? I would be curious to see how that is worded in their documents.

This reminds me of signs on stores saying "SALE: UP TO 90% OFF".... yes.. 10% falls within the range of 'up to' 90%.
 
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
87
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Country
Country
#6
Hi. I think the maximum power would be 184 kW instead of 210. This is still a lot more than the current Model S/X at maximum 120 kW. The Model 3 pack voltage is 350V, not 400V. Therefore I think the calculation should be 350V*525A= 183,750 W= 184 kW.

The 60 kWh Model S pack is also 350V. In this video, you can see the that Supercharging power does not exceed 350V.

The important thing here is that 525A is real. You can see it on page 9 here on the newly discovered EPA document. The current Superchargers can't deliver that much power but when Tesla releases the Supercharger V3, the Model 3 will most likely be able to make use of that and none of the current Model S/X will be able to. Elon tweeted about Supercharger V3 here.

This would say otherwise about the pack voltage. Even if it used the current 120 / 135KW of the current Superchargers, I'd had to assume it could sustain a higher charge rate than current Model S / X.

Edit: or is this peak voltage?
 

Frank99

Model 3 owner since May 3, 2018
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
250
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#7
When the battery SOC is low (say, 3.3v/cell, 315v for the pack), higher charge currents can be sustained, but the power is calculated from the battery voltage - 315V *525A = 166kw. I'd also guess that 525A is the rating of the fuse on the charging system, not the actual current expected to be used during charging.
So, I don't think this information suggests 210kw charging is on the way.
 

Troy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
385
Location
London, UK
Country
Country
#8
Hi, @Rocco Speranza. The same document that shows 334 mi and 525A, also shows 350V on page 14 here but it says 400V on page 12. I don't know the reason. Maybe when Tesla wrote this document, they took an existing Model S file and edited it and forgot to change 400V to 350V.

@phigment,
There is this document that also shows 350V for the Model 3. There is another document here that shows 350V for all Model S packs including 90 and 100 KWh even though those are 400V. I guess this is another example of copy-paste errors. They must have copied the table from a 60 kWh document.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
87
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Country
Country
#9
When the battery SOC is low (say, 3.3v/cell, 315v for the pack), higher charge currents can be sustained, but the power is calculated from the battery voltage - 315V *525A = 166kw. I'd also guess that 525A is the rating of the fuse on the charging system, not the actual current expected to be used during charging.
So, I don't think this information suggests 210kw charging is on the way.
What I'd like to see is that 120KWh can be sustained till 50% and taper from there. I'd like to see an 80% charge in 45 minutes and 100% in 60. Honesty won't make much of a difference, but 15 minutes at every stop can add up.
 

Rouge one

New Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2017
Messages
2
Location
Janesville wi
Country
Country
#10
EB3F8C26-9797-41B6-B462-E503566FBDE4.jpeg 34C33833-B629-4FB8-B8BA-44120214C743.jpeg
What I'd like to see is that 120KWh can be sustained till 50% and taper from there. I'd like to see an 80% charge in 45 minutes and 100% in 60. Honesty won't make much of a difference, but 15 minutes at every stop can add up.

We have seen 90 KW at approximately 50 percent charge And 102 KW slightly below 50 percent.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
87
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Country
Country
#11
View attachment 3899 View attachment 3898


We have seen 90 KW at approximately 50 percent charge And 102 KW slightly below 50 percent.
Thanks for the update, I’ve seen these and sure they are software locking the charge speed. One to increase life of the cells, two because I believe Model 3 can Supercharge faster than Model S/X. I’d feel if they could start out near 200KW, 120KW of power at 50% doesn’t seem unreasonable.
 
4

4701

Guest
#12
The vehicle is also capable of accepting DC current up to 525A from an off‐board charger (Supercharger).

They way that sentence is constructed, my guess is that it is solely based on wire gauge between port and battery.
That's also the only easy way to to estimate vehicle's input current capability. Though socket capability should also
be included, it's much harder to estimate without real world measurements as design is custom and no textbook can help.
 

Juergen

Active Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2017
Messages
63
Location
Messstetten
Country
Country
#13
If I assume a 96S46P battery configuration, it's at 3.7V about 355V. At the final charging voltage of 4.1V it is already 397V. So pretty close to the 400V. Depending on which voltage is meant, both can be correct.

Jürgen
 

Ip Man

Active Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Messages
136
Location
CT
Country
Country
#14
my personal opinion of all this is I would be happy if:
all sc gave 120kw all the time no matter how many bays are full or avail.
no ICE cars parked there-if they are -they get towed at owners expense-we don't park at their gas pumps... maybe we should.
No I don't want us to stoop down to their level.
If a T is 80 percent charged or more it unplugs and auto parks so someone else can use it.
 

Troy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
385
Location
London, UK
Country
Country
#15
In Oct 2017, in message #4 above, I said this:

when Tesla releases the Supercharger V3, the Model 3 will most likely be able to make use of that and none of the current Model S/X will be able to.
Now, 1.5 years later, Model 3 supports Supercharger V3 but S/X doesn't. I mentioned that this would happen whenever people asked questions about old Model S vs new Model 3. In some instances, I was downvoted on Reddit because some people didn't believe this would happen. Now, even the latest S/X doesn't support V3 and the oldest Model 3 does.
 

Rocco Speranza

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
87
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Country
Country
#16
In Oct 2017, in message #4 above, I said this:



Now, 1.5 years later, Model 3 supports Supercharger V3 but S/X doesn't. I mentioned that this would happen whenever people asked questions about old Model S vs new Model 3. In some instances, I was downvoted on Reddit because some people didn't believe this would happen. Now, even the latest S/X doesn't support V3 and the oldest Model 3 does.
Glad we were right, though I do think older Model S / X can take a higher charge rate, just not near 250. Maybe 180(just a guess)?

After re-reading what I said, I couldn’t be happier. You can get from 0-80% in 30 minutes and to 90% in ~45 minutes. This is game changer! It’ll be faster to road trip in a Tesla than most ICE cars, assuming you travel 750 or so miles a day and have a normal bladder / stomach.
 

Rocco Speranza

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2016
Messages
87
Location
Hendersonville, NC
Country
Country
#18
How? You can still fill up a gas tank much quicker. My previous cars all had over 300 miles per tank too.
Quick Scenario:
So it's fair BMW 330i has a 15.8 gallon tank, gets 537 miles of range @34mpg.
I'm making the assumption you don't fill this up before leaving so say 80% 430 mile range.
I'm going to stop here as yes it will win because I guess I didn't realize how big gas tanks in these cars are.
My ICE car has 11 gallon tank and always filled up after 300-330 miles.

Assuming I'm comparing my old car,
80% of 330 miles is 264.
Going to assume 70 mph avg.
Leave at 6am.

Drive 250 miles (3.57 Hours) Fill up, w/ bathroom, 15 minutes total stop, Leave 10:49am
Drive another 150 miles (2.14 Hours) before stopping to eat, 30 minutes, then head out. Leave ~12:30pm
Drive another 150 miles (2.14 Hours) then get gas and bathroom, 15 minutes total, Leave 2:21pm
Drive the final 200 miles (2.86 Hours )to my final destination ~5:43

Model 3 LR = 325 miles of range, leaving at 100% charge
Drive 300 miles (4.29 Hours) Charge for 20 minutes, back up to 227 miles, Leave ~10:37am
Drive 200 miles (2.86 Hours) Charge car for 30 minutes to eat, leave at 276 miles, ~2:00pm
Drive 250 miles (3.57 hours) to Destination Arrive ~5:33pm

I understand there are a ton a variables, but 10 minutes quicker in this scenario. I generally take longer stops than this too so the longer the stops the more an electric car has the advantage.