Massachusetts (MOR-EV) Rebate Discussion

kweezy

Active Member
Joined
May 17, 2017
Messages
35
Location
Boston
Country
Country
#1
Do any of you current EV owners have experience / thoughts regarding the quickly depleting supply of MA EV $2500 credits? It's already 50% gone and we're only 4 months into year (for purposes of the credits that is). I fear that the timing of Model 3 deliveries beginning of MA folks likely is to coincide with the depletion of funds. As is, $2.1mm remains (only 840 Model 3s or other $2,500 rebate cars).

https://mor-ev.org/funding

I had emailed them and they seemed to keep an option open about "asking the state for more funds if needed".
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#2
The MOR-EV program in MA promises a $2500 cash rebate for Model 3 owners in possession of their car, provided there is sufficient funding in the account. That's an attractive number that allows us to quickly order upon receiving the invitation with a credit card, combining it with our deposit to confirm the order, and paying off the card balance within a few months with the cash rebate.

That nice symmetrical possibility is thrown up in the air now given the latest delivery delay. I am optimistic I will probably receive my 3 within my window of April-June (March 31st, 10:30EST online, non-owner), but even if that happens, there is no certainty the funds will still be there.

Here is the present fund status (September 2017 to Present):


I haven't yet done any detailed analysis but here is my rough estimate:
If the last 6 months' rate of reserve or disbursement remains steady until the funds are exhausted, the funds will run out during the last week of May.

Note that although apparently New Englanders are holding for Dual Motor at a high rate, there still may be a relative flood of 3's and Leaf's being registered, bringing the 'End of Times' earlier.

BTW I believe this program was funded in 2014 and that @$11M had already been disbursed prior to September 2017. MA definitely is a supporter of alternative energy, but the over-all state budget has been growing tighter and tighter each year. I suppose that is to be expected when we try to support education and most everything else with property taxes. People have (or believe they have) a limit.

To me the 3 is a good value in relation to its competitors. However, the price is still greater than I planned on spending and that tax free $2500 regardless of tax liabilities is (was) really attractive. I'm still in the game, but this 12-dimensional chess is now has 13 dimensions.

Being an early adopter is not for the faint of heart!
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#3
I haven't yet done any detailed analysis but here is my rough estimate:
If the last 6 months' rate of reserve or disbursement remains steady until the funds are exhausted, the funds will run out during the last week of May.

Note that although apparently New Englanders are holding for Dual Motor at a high rate, there still may be a relative flood of 3's and Leaf's being registered, bringing the 'End of Times' earlier.

BTW I believe this program was funded in 2014 and that @$11M had already been disbursed prior to September 2017. MA definitely is a supporter of alternative energy, but the over-all state budget has been growing tighter and tighter each year. I suppose that is to be expected when we try to support education and most everything else with property taxes. People have (or believe they have) a limit.
Not only do I like your odds of getting a rebate, I think a lot of other folks here are going to get one too. The MOR-EV program funding has been supported and replenished by governors or both parties since its inception (most recently in December 2016), and I don't see Gov. Baker letting the funding run dry in an election year.

The only question in my mind is the same one you posed above: whether the amount and (especially) the timing of the funding will hold up to the coming "flood" (as you put it) of second-generation EVs like the Model 3, 2nd-gen Leaf, etc. If there really are 10,000 Model 3 reservations in New England (per Jon McNeill) and half of those are in Massachusetts, that's $12.5M in rebates that they will need to issue in a relatively short timeframe.

One thing I haven't really been able to clarify for myself about the program's funding is the total amount committed, as the MOR-EV website itself seems to offer contradictory numbers. For funding, if $6M was committed in November 2014, and another $12M was committed in December 2016, and the total dispersed so far is $13.25M (see here - updated as of January 30th), that would suggest that there is $6M + 12M - $13.25M = $4.75M remaining. However, the chart on the the MOR-EV funding page (same one as you included in your message above) shows $11.6M rebates issued with $1.5M remaining, for a total of $13.1M... which is less than the $13.25M in total rebates issued.

Either way, I think we will see another infusion or commitment this year prior to November, and IMHO that should get be enough to cover anyone here in Massachusetts who currently has a Model 3 reservation.
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#4
I love your reasoning but I know with the governors budget only increasing 2 plus percent, a number of cities and towns are going to have a tough time funding schools at present levels. Given the choices I’m not sure that funding the EV rebates is going to be a strong a source of votes as education.

Bokonon: But I’ll buy you a cup of coffee if you are correct. We probably won’t know until mid-June because the budget usually doesn’t get done until late in the fiscal year.
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#5
I love your reasoning but I know with the governors budget only increasing 2 plus percent, a number of cities and towns are going to have a tough time funding schools at present levels. Given the choices I’m not sure that funding the EV rebates is going to be a strong a source of votes as education.
Completely agree -- if it were an either/or, I'd want those dollars to go to education first as well.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that MOR-EV was funded outside of the state budget, based on this paragraph that appears in every MOR-EV funding press release (example):

MOR-EV is administered on DOER’s behalf by the Center for Sustainable Energy. The funding is financed by Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI) auction proceeds, and aims to help reduce reliance on foreign oil and meet Massachusetts’ goals under the Global Warming Solutions Act (GWSA) to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the transportation sector 7.6 percent by 2020.
If it turns out that MOR-EV is being indirectly funded by cap-and-trade auctions, I'm fine with that. Those auctions appear to occur quarterly (next one's in March).

For the sake of completeness, I also dug through the FY19 budget proposal in search of a line-item specifically references MOR-EV (or a program of similar description), but did not find anything definitive. All I can see is that the funding for the Massachusetts Department of Energy Resources (which administers the MOR-EV program) has received a slight bump in funding (mostly to cover increases in operational costs), with federal trust spending levels nearly identical to last year. My guess would be that any direct funding that Mass DOER would provide would come out of one of the federal trusts, solely based on the numbers, but I don't know enough about the strings attached to those trusts to be anything approaching certain.

Bokonon: But I’ll buy you a cup of coffee if you are correct. We probably won’t know until mid-June because the budget usually doesn’t get done until late in the fiscal year.
Careful... when I moved here from the pacific northwest, I brought my preference for Starbucks with me. ;)
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#6
Hey. Thanks for delving in. Hope you are right it is from cap and trade. And my wife is a Starbucks aficionado. I’m used to it. The first spill in the 3 will undoubtedly be from a white paper cup with a green logo.
 

JWardell

Legendary Member
Joined
May 9, 2016
Messages
3,721
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#7
I've been wondering this too, and I think this rebate is what makes mass one of the leading states for supporting EVs. If anything, it should be increased.
So the question is, who should we contact to encourage more funding?
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#8
I just emailed MOV-EV this AM to inquire on the official word on funding and also to inquire how often they update the online balance of funds for EV rebates. It doesn't seem to have changed in over a month.

The budget now rests with the two Ways and Means (Senate and House) Committees on Beacon Hill. It's like Capital Hill: Chief executive proposes a budget, the House and Senate each consider modifications and then jointly propose a budget back to the chief exec for signing. So, google 'Ways and Means Committees MA' and find if your local legislators are on the Committees. Otherwise, contact the Chair and any members. The state budget has to be done by June 31st, and is typically not really finalized until sometime in May or June. As usual, it's a tight budget but Baker has proposed his budget and I don't know if he has added any additional funding. I will do same. The amounts are tiny compared to the budget and MA has been strong advocated of alternate energy solutions....
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#10
I just emailed MOV-EV this AM to inquire on the official word on funding and also to inquire how often they update the online balance of funds for EV rebates. It doesn't seem to have changed in over a month.
Curious, did they ever write you back?
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#11
I Was fortunate enough to order but I'm getting stressed watching the MA rebate funds deplete so quickly. Down to 29% remaining for FY (through September). It declined 3% this week.

https://mor-ev.org/funding
I'm with you on that feeling!

They've replenished the fund when it's run low in the past, and there is a n RGGI (Regional Greenhoues Gas Initiative) cap-and-trade auction this month whose proceeds (I believe) have been used to bolster the fund in the past, so I'm hoping we see a bump sometime soon. My biggest concern is that, even if the powers that be fully intend to replenish the fund, they won't foresee the impending deluge of Model 3 owners applying for the rebate, and the fund will suddenly begin to deplete so rapidly that it will actually hit 0 before it gets replenished.

@GTV6 actually reached out to the MOR-EV team to seek clarification on funding a couple of weeks ago. Not sure if they've written him back.

There's been some additional discussion and research about MOR-EV funds in this thread too.
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#12
Yes. The online figures are changing almost daily.

Dear Bart: Thank you for the email. I have confirmed that the pie chart on our website that illustrates the available funding is updated every hour. If the pie chart has not been updated on your end, I recommend trying to view it using Google Chrome as your browser if you are not already doing so.

Although the program does rely on the state re-funding it occasionally, unfortunately at this time, we have not been notified about the Department of Energy Resources plans for re-funding the program once the current available funds diminish.

As that time gets closer, we may be able to provide more information. Please feel free to continue to reach out for updates as your delivery date approaches.

Best regards,

Luke Ballweber
Rebate Processing Specialist, Clean Transportation

MOR-EV Staff
Center for Sustainable Energy®
866.900.4223 phone
www.mor-ev.org
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#13
Thanks for sharing that response. I may ask the same question of them in a little bit, just to add another voice, and to ask if there's someone in particular at DOER that we can contact about the timing and availability of additional funding.

As I mentioned in the other thread, my biggest concern is that the impending wave of Model 3 deliveries will cause a sudden increase in the fund-depletion rate, and they won't be able to react in time to replenish the pot. I just want to make sure that the individual(s) at DOER responsible for tracking the fund's balance are aware that there is going to be a significant uptick in rebate applications as the year progresses.
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#14
Thanks for sharing that response. I may ask the same question of them in a little bit, just to add another voice, and to ask if there's someone in particular at DOER that we can contact about the timing and availability of additional funding.

As I mentioned in the other thread, my biggest concern is that the impending wave of Model 3 deliveries will cause a sudden increase in the fund-depletion rate, and they won't be able to react in time to replenish the pot. I just want to make sure that the individual(s) at DOER responsible for tracking the fund's balance are aware that there is going to be a significant uptick in rebate applications as the year progresses.
Yup. I'm concerned. The estimator suggests I'll get delivery on May 15 (Red, Aero, First production). My rough estimate is I might squeak in. I'll buy regardless, but would be nice to get that rebate.

I think lobbying might go both ways(?) Given the reasoning for the rebate is to encourage/enable purchasing, suggesting that the fund should be restocked because all of the rabid Model 3 purchasers are about to close may not fit with that justification. Obviously, there should be refunding to accelerate purchases....

BTW if you are waiting for AWD I'll be glad to meet up and take you for a ride.....Let's get this done!
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#15
Be glad to help organize a meet-up once I have my car (late May delivery ?). I’ve worked with MA air regulators. Not like MA to let the rebate funding slip but the fund is getting down to seeds and stems’. Bokonen: any grounds recently for your earlier optimism? :-(
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#16
Be glad to help organize a meet-up once I have my car (late May delivery ?). I’ve worked with MA air regulators. Not like MA to let the rebate funding slip but the fund is getting down to seeds and stems’. Bokonen: any grounds recently for your earlier optimism? :-(
Truthfully, there is rarely grounds for my optimism. :)

Thanks for reminding me, though -- I'll ping MOR-EV and see if we can learn anything. In theory there was just a carbon auction a few weeks ago, so hopefully some of those proceeds will be diverted? I'll try posing the question to a few other places too.
 

GTV6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
219
Location
Petersham, ma
Country
Country
#17
Truthfully, there is rarely grounds for my optimism. :)

Thanks for reminding me, though -- I'll ping MOR-EV and see if we can learn anything. In theory there was just a carbon auction a few weeks ago, so hopefully some of those proceeds will be diverted? I'll try posing the question to a few other places too.
I have ALWAYS found your optimism to be completely justified! (well, at least we're one for one until the fund runs out.)
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,088
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#19
How will I know if there are funds left? Picking up soon (vin waiting)
MOR-EV has a funding status page that is updated daily. Check it out here:

https://mor-ev.org/funding

If you've got a VIN and/or delivery date already, you should be fine... They've got funding for about 300 rebates right now. The application process is quick and straightforward, and turnaround is pretty quick in my experience.
 

JWardell

Legendary Member
Joined
May 9, 2016
Messages
3,721
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#20
MOR-EV has a funding status page that is updated daily. Check it out here:

https://mor-ev.org/funding

If you've got a VIN and/or delivery date already, you should be fine... They've got funding for about 300 rebates right now. The application process is quick and straightforward, and turnaround is pretty quick in my experience.
I'm definitely concerned it will be gone too soon...who should we beg to get more funding?