Keyless Entry with smartphones

Juergen

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#1
After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That’s a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the “bad guy” the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there’s cars to.
Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it’s safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.

Juergen
 

SoFlaModel3

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#2
After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That’s a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the “bad guy” the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there’s cars to.
Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it’s safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.

Juergen
Converting to feet for us ignorant Americans that is 29’ 6”.

I can’t imagine the car unlocking from that distance. Tesla must have a way to limit this...

EDIT: after reading through the key manual some more I take back my earlier note. It is quite possible the phone being within range will be an issue. For that reason, the phone is not the "only key". If your car is kept outside and your phone is within range (without interference) that may be an issue. We'll have to see what happens in the real world. For instance if you open the app and lock the doors but the phone never leaves the bluetooth field do the doors stay locked? I would think so...
 
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#3
And one thing I'm worried about is reconnection. Right now, the way Bluetooth works (on my Android phone, at least), if I walk far away from my Bluetooth connected headphone, and I loose connection, when I come back within range, it doesn't automatically reconnect. I have to manually reconnect. Would the M3 work like this? I know Wi-Fi always reconnect when you come back within range, but Bluetooth doesn't. Unless if there's a new Bluetooth version I'm unaware of
 

SoFlaModel3

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#4
And one thing I'm worried about is reconnection. Right now, the way Bluetooth works (on my Android phone, at least), if I walk far away from my Bluetooth connected headphone, and I loose connection, when I come back within range, it doesn't automatically reconnect. I have to manually reconnect. Would the M3 work like this? I know Wi-Fi always reconnect when you come back within range, but Bluetooth doesn't. Unless if there's a new Bluetooth version I'm unaware of
I think that’s just your phone/headphones. Probably that headphones went into a power save mode when there was no active connection for “x” time.

The car will be actively searching for your phone.
 

Kizzy

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#5
After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That’s a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the “bad guy” the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there’s cars to.
Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it’s safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.

Juergen
Tesla did provide a solution for that. You can disable the passive entry (auto unlock/lock) when your phone transitions between being in range. Then, you have to manually lock or unlock the car through the app (or key fob with S and X).
 

Juergen

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#6
Thanks! I ask for a technical solution. The waves need about 100ns for a two way transmission on 50ft. They can measure the time what the signal need like a ping on the computer. Is it outside the window was expected, the Tesla disconnect and let the door closed. Maybe this is a hidden feature already.
 

JWardell

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#7
Thanks! I ask for a technical solution. The waves need about 100ns for a two way transmission on 50ft. They can measure the time what the signal need like a ping on the computer. Is it outside the window was expected, the Tesla disconnect and let the door closed. Maybe this is a hidden feature already.
It's a LOT more complex than that but nonetheless possible. Apple put a lot of effort into using both bluetooth and wifi to measure time of flight to determine where a device is in relationship to another, and use this when unlocking your computer when your watch is in front of it, also configuring devices like the appleTV from a very nearby phone. It's one of those things that will take a year or so of tweaking.
Every other car I've had has a ton of bluetooth annoyances with disconnection, priority connection, connecting to a phone in the house instead of in the drivers seat, etc.
The great thing about Teslas is they can and will continue to improve all the bluetooth features and performance, and your car just automatically updates with that new software. It boggles me why no other car manufacturer does this.
 
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#8
Easy - have a timer that disables phone's Bluetooth for nighttime when we don't use our phones and re-enables before we leave.
If I had to propose a fast solution I would not allow to pair if phone's gyro sensor detects phone is not moving.
For example my phone will not ask for pattern again up to the point the phone has rested on a surface for around 5 seconds.
Most of car thieves work during the nighttime when owner is asleep and vehicle is outdoors. If phone does not connect, can't extend signal.

There are many ways to protect with new software. Key fobs on the other hand are bricks that get old and never update.
 
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ummgood

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#9
Easy - have a timer that disables phone's Bluetooth for nighttime when we don't use our phones and re-enables before we leave.
If I had to propose a fast solution I would not allow to pair if phone's gyro sensor detects phone is not moving.
For example my phone will not ask for pattern again up to the point the phone has rested on a surface for around 5 seconds.
Most of car thieves work during the nighttime when owner is asleep and vehicle is outdoors. If phone does not connect, can't extend signal.

There are many ways to protect with new software. Key fobs on the other hand are bricks that get old and never update.
The problem is you are assuming I want to shut off my bluetooth. If someone owns an apple watch they'll probably never want to shut it off.
 

JWardell

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#10
Agreed. I have 11 devices under my bluetooth list, including two smartwatches. I only turn off the bluetooth quickly when I want to reboot the bluetooth stack, which seems to fix a lot a problems with some BT things. I don't really understand why you would want to turn it off every night.
 

Steam613

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#11
If this has been addressed I missed it. iPhone 6S owner. If I am talking on the phone will it still unlock the car on approach?
 

AEDennis

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#13
On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...
 

SoFlaModel3

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#14
On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...
It will always be looking for the “key” which can be the secondary if the primary is not found.
 

JWardell

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#15
On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...
Remember the 3 has all new computer systems, and a major switch to intel, so there should be a good chance the Bluetooth is significantly more modern and able to cope with multiple devices.
 

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#16
Remember the 3 has all new computer systems, and a major switch to intel, so there should be a good chance the Bluetooth is significantly more modern and able to cope with multiple devices.
As well the owners manual for the ‘key’ stated that the app must be open for the door lock/unlock function to work. As long as the app is open in the background while talking it should not be an issue.
 

UncleT

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#17
Another random observation over the last week or two the range at which keyless entry unlocks the doors is much closer than it was upon delivery. This is a good thing, and I suspect the concern of having the phone in a room that's close to the garage is no longer an issue.
I've noticed this too.
Going to update then see if I can play with it during my lunch break..
On occasion I need to leave my phone in my car. After starting the car with the phone, is it possible to turn off your phone, leave it in the car and then use the keycard to lock and unlock? Thanks!
 
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Maevra

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#18
On occasion I need to leave my phone in my car. After starting the car with the phone, is it possible to turn off your phone, leave it in the car and then use the keycard to lock and unlock? Thanks!
Kinda confused by the "starting your car with the phone" part UncleT, but assuming you mean "can I turn off my phone and leave it in the car and just use the key card to lock/unlock", then yes you can do this.
 

Runt8

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#19
As well the owners manual for the ‘key’ stated that the app must be open for the door lock/unlock function to work. As long as the app is open in the background while talking it should not be an issue.
Where does it say the app needs to be open?
 

UncleT

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#20
Kinda confused by the "starting your car with the phone" part UncleT, but assuming you mean "can I turn off my phone and leave it in the car and just use the key card to lock/unlock", then yes you can do this.
Thanks. I just wanted to emphasize that I would want to start the trip using the phone to unlock and turn on the car to get to my destination (rather than using the keycard).
 
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