Tesla Owners Online Forum banner

Key card instead of key fob

26K views 194 replies 45 participants last post by  MelindaV 
#1 ·
Since this rumor is gaining steady traction.

What happens when you valet and you don't have the key on a key ring?

Mind you this is my curiosity as I will never valet park ;)

Will the card come with a pouch that has a key ring?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Russo
#4 ·
Ummm... point being the valet companies usually hang your keys on a peg board and affix a tag to the key ring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EValuatED
#6 ·
I think RFID is for the employees to use as a badge so Tesla can know who drove the Model 3.

This would also be easier to grant access to multiple Release Candidate Model 3 for testing purposes without having so many keys or cards issued.

I strongly believe customers will get 2 key fobs with physical buttons
 
#7 ·
I think RFID is for the employees to use as a badge so Tesla can know who drove the Model 3.

This would also be easier to grant access to multiple Release Candidate Model 3 for testing purposes without having so many keys or cards issued.

I strongly believe customers will get 2 key fobs with physical buttons
I know this may be sound archaic to some, yet I would actually prefer that... particularly if my fobs are Midnight Silver!! ;)
 
#10 ·
Key cards are bad UX on so many levels.
Sincerely hope that’s not the actual, production car access control method.

Additionally, it is my understanding that on MS/MX the phone app only allows you access if the keyfob is in/near the car, for (obvious) security reasons. How would that work with a card? The car can’t detect the presence of a card near or in it. You can only swipe/wave it near a reader.

On top of that, there would have to be at least 3 readers installed into the car (front left door, trunk, dashboard) for this to work in any sensible way, as opposed to having just one, central reader with a powered (active) fob. Ludicrous (not speed).
 
#11 ·
Additionally, it is my understanding that on MS/MX the phone app only allows you access if the keyfob is in/near the car, for (obvious) security reasons.
I don't think this is accurate. Pretty sure you don't need the keys at all.
 
#15 ·
It's as safe, security wise, as your password for this forum.

As long as it does not rely on physical proximity, it can be easily intercepted, spoofed, etc.
In fact, even a fob is not safe from spoofing/relaying attacks, but at least the attacker needs to be in close proximity to you and your car (it's a two-person deal).
 
#17 ·
This is one of those tricky areas where security and ease of use reach a crossroads.

You would think something as sensitive as accessing your car you would want two-factor authentication, but the ease of use side hates two-factor authentication.

With that API sitting out there (and I'm not sure about the particulars in the security model as I have not reviewed the documentation) -- there is a risk.

Honestly, a selling point against full self-driving is a concern over what would happen should Tesla be hacked and someone suddenly has control of your car remotely. It would be bad enough today that they could put my windows down remotely and cause some damage, but hacking into a FSD car is scary.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I would imagine members of the Tesla ride sharing network using personalized key cards to access the cars. There must be some convenience factor to this approach, e.g. not having to use a smartphone app to open a door, plus eliminate the need for a keyfob.

Tesla has thought of pretty much everything beyond the automobile itself - this keycard concept is one indicator. I anticipate a major disruption in the near future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gabzqc and Badback
#23 ·
My dad's theory regarding the key cards:

It's card shaped, but slightly fatter, is actually an active RFID fob (so range and behaviour similar to the fob, minus the buttons), has non user-removable rechargable battery, and is inductively recharged whenever in the car somewhere (central console / cup holders etc.).
My guess is it's going to be a passive uhf rfid with about 3 feet range. We use this incase the phone is dead or giving key to someone else. No buttons on the key.

Just a wild guess. :)
 
#26 ·
Oh, now that's an interesting speculation.

For one, power usage is very low (it can work off lithium button cells for ages).
And second, and more importantly, that would mean you should be able to use your phone for *local* entry authentication (not over the cloud), as long as the app and the onboarding process are done securely enough (some kind of 2fa for the initial pairing - not talking about bluetooth pairing - that ensures you're in possession of the card, the car and the phone).
 
#27 ·
If these keycard rumors are true, I fully expect that the primary “key” is going to be your smartphone/watch. I could see them coming out with a Tesla app update that enables BLE pairing with the car, and hopefully also add Apple Watch support (and whatever android equivalent).

If you need to remotely open the trunk/vent the sunroof/turn on the AC/whatever, you’ll do it through the app. They’ll handle automatic locking and unlocking through BLE proximity detection similar to how Apple lets you authenticate into your Mac by simply wearing an Apple Watch.

I don’t expect you’ll use the keycard for anything other than emergency access if your phone/watch dies. It’ll be a simple passive RFID card that you’ll stick in the back pocket of your wallet and mostly forget about.
 
#28 ·
Either i'm crazy, or this changed at some point, then.
Because i remember someone demonstrating phone app doesn't allow opening/closing/starting unless the key is present (near the car / in the car). In essence, a 2-factor authentication for important functions.

Might be my failing memory :D

(From a security standpoint, though, that would make more sense than complete access to the car without the fob present.)
Requiring the key to be within range of the car for any sort of app control doesn't make sense from either a practical or a security standpoint.

On one hand, you don't want to leave the fob in your car in order to enable remote control. That's as foolish as leaving your conventional car unattended with the door unlocked and the key in the ignition. Obviously that's less secure than app/cloud authentication which has a minuscule chance of being hacked.

On the other hand, if the key is only in range when you are in/near the car, there's no point in remote control with an app. It would be easier to use the actual controls on the car.
 
#29 ·
I'm thinking we've seen M3 keycards in use by Tesla employees -- instead of pairing their phone with a car or cars -- as they might be doing something in any of the RCs or early production cars, from time to time. So grab the keycard and go.

Queuing up conjecture on proximity unlocking & locking... Go!
 
#33 ·
Food for thought:
https://www.troyhunt.com/controlling-vehicle-features-of-nissan/

Now, Nissan is a horrible example, because their API and the app appear to be made by a hundred dozen monkeys randomly mashing on keyboards (or so it seems), but be sure that an exploit being found for *any* system is never a question of if, but when. And of how prominent and frequent the system (in this case a car) is in everyday life.

So far, Teslas have been fairly lo-key, by virtue of being relatively uncommon.
This will change with Model 3.
 
#36 ·
There's plenty of evidence that the keycard is indeed real and going to happen. They have the fleet sharing thing happening in a few years so why not build in the capability into the car right from the beginning. Make it NFC compatible as well so we can use our mobile devices to authenticate...

Think about that...

 
#40 ·
Even in that case, the car should still open without taking out key card because one of the multiple cards was a correct one.

Most likely it's a proximity issue. It has to be brought out and closer to someplace where there is a reader.

There are rumors of reader being on B pillar. Kinda makes sense, one hand to open door handle, other with key is on b pillar.
 
#43 ·
Let's hope so.
Passive RFID card is a seriously dumb idea.

Imagine fumbling around unlocking your trunk by swiping a card by the reader while holding groceries or a suitcase.

It's so unwieldy and amateurish i seriously doubt Tesla would do that as the primary access control method.
Couldn't I just have the chip embedded under my skin? Seriously, I have other medical devices embedded subcutaneously. Or maybe a tattoo?
 
#44 ·
The only way for a keycard to make sense is for it to be passive RFID only. If you go through the trouble of putting active transmitters into it, you lose the cost savings and simplicity advantages of a keycard and just end up with a conventional fob in a worse form factor.

That’s why I believe the Tesla app is going to become the primary access control method for the car if these rumors are true. Tesla supplies an inexpensive RFID backup key, and we supply the hardware that we are already carrying around to act as the primary key. That saves Tesla money and saves all of us the effort of carrying another bulky item around in our pockets.

The only question in my mind about this is whether or not an iPhone/Android phone is going to allow a third party app in the background to consume enough resources to do all this effectively. Having to launch an app on your phone to establish a BLE (or whatever) connection every time you want to unlock the car would be just as terrible as an RFID only keycard as the primary access control.
 
#45 ·
My honest belief is we will have the same functionality of the Model s and x key, but in a different form factor. A slightly thicker card shaped device, that will unlock the car when you approach it, can sit in your wallet or phone case all the time.... Simple really.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top