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Is the S better than 3 or only by a Little?

11K views 67 replies 26 participants last post by  ReD eXiLe 
#1 · (Edited)
This isn't a competition between S and 3, I'm just curious to know if there really are big enough differences between the 3 and S?
Is the S worth 2 or 3 times as much money? Are there 2 or 3 times the features?

The reason I ask is whenever I see Tesla mention it, (even from last April during test drives when the engineers would say stuff like "The S screen still sets the standard, the S is the car you still want for performance, etc), which is understandable and should be for a premium model, I just don't see huge differences, or at least not enough that there's a big gap like an Iphone SE vs. Iphone 7.

My favorite review was Evannex (on launch night), when they were very pumped over how great the 3 seemed to handle and other features that were way beyond expectations.

What are these "extra features" that the S will have over the 3?

If they both have the same autopilot, the same base 0-60 of about 5.2 seconds (3 might be even faster), the same 5 star safety ratings, then what are the main differences?

I know the 3 was built from the ground up using what they've learned from the S and X (which might even be a slight advantage to 3), but other than the Performance model time of the S being faster, and the range of the S being longer (yes that's a point to make), but...

Are there any other technical or engineering differences to make the S far superior? (all aluminum vs steel with aluminum, but does that really matter that much)?

I'm just really asking because I don't know. The S does have more, but is it really that much more?

I love all Teslas, but I'm just not seeing a huge difference when they say the S will always be more advanced. Will the S at some point have a HUD and not the 3?

Am I just missing something? (I only test drove one, and yes it was amazing).

What would Tesla hold back from the 3 and only give to S and X?

I'm honestly just curious and maybe Elon is really downplaying how good the 3 really is?...
 
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#2 ·
This isn't a competition between S and 3, I'm just curious to know if there really are big enough differences between the 3 and S?
Is the S worth 2 or 3 times as much money? Are there 2 or 3 times the features?

The reason I ask is whenever I see Tesla mention it, (even from last April during test drives when the engineers would say stuff like "The S screen still sets the standard, the S is the car you still want for performance, etc), which is understandable and should be for a premium model, I just don't see huge differences, or at least not enough that there's a big gap like an Iphone SE vs. Iphone 7.

My favorite review was Evannex (on launch night), when they were very pumped over how great the 3 seemed to handle and other features that were way beyond expectations.

What are these "extra features" that the S will have over the 3?

If they both have the same autopilot, the same base 0-60 of about 5.2 seconds (3 might be even faster), the same 5 star safety ratings, then what are the main differences?

I know the 3 was built from the ground up using what they've learned from the S and X (which might even be a slight advantage to 3), but other than the Performance model time of the S being faster, and the range of the S being longer, are there any other technical or engineering differences to make the S far superior? (all aluminum vs steel with aluminum, but does that really matter that much)?

The S is amazing of course, I love it, but I'm just not seeing a big difference when they say the S will always be more advanced and our flagship etc. Will the S at some point have a HUD and not the 3?

Is there much of a difference or am I just missing something? (I don't own an S, I only test drove one, and yes it was amazing).

What would Tesla hold back from the 3 and only give to S and X?

What am I missing? I'm honestly just curious and maybe Elon is really downplaying how good the 3 really is...
IMNSHO, the main differences are what you see on the surface, size, luxury appointments (maybe not so much), special features like the binnacle. Maybe the quality of the seats and some interior appointments are better on the S.
What you don't see on the surface is another matter. Will the Model 3 have the same suspension design as the Model S, remains to be seen but I would say yes. So, the excellent handling should be about the same. Maybe some of the components are steel instead of aluminum.
Is the chassis layout the same, absolutely. We have already seen it at the first reveal.
I assume that the motor(s) in the Model 3 will be smaller, less torque and HP, and the inverters will also be smaller.
The 3's maximum battery size will be smaller than the S, 75kWh vs. 100kWh.
We sort of know that some of the construction will be steel but we don't know where. I am hoping that what steel there is will not be exposed to the weather or will have really excellent rust prevention.
The Autopilot hardware is the same. We know about the differences in the display and assume that the GUI will be similar.
The Model 3 is very definitely recognizable as a Tesla, it has the same DNA.
It is kind of like asking: How is the BMW 3 series different than the BMW 7 series?
 
#3 ·
What am I missing?
You're likely not missing anything; you just haven't arranged the pieces to map out the big picture. Get the version you want.

In the current global economy, the folks at the top of the money piles are disproportionately funded under the current rules of the game, and that also varies by region. That's how the cards were dealt, and that's how the game goes on.

Is a CEO in the USA really worth many times the compensation received by a CEO in Mexico not named Carlos Slim? Maybe not, but that is how the game is being played.

If you need seven seats because you travel in a family herd, then you won't fit them in a Model 3. You need an S for that. Same thing applies if you intend to drive through a biological weapons attack. To each one's own. I personally tend to drive away from biological attacks. We usually by clothes that fit; yet, sometimes we don't so others will stare.

Without a Model S, there would not be a Model 3. Ask a Tyrannosaurus how being big worked out. Oh, things aren't all they appear to be, are they? Nice teeth you have, Grandma! It's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of those who fit the environment. Your mileage may vary.

When asked about his chosen career, Willie Sutton once said, "I rob banks because that's where the money is."

When Elon Musk seeks money for Tesla, why not get a giant Chinese internet company involved? That's where the money is.

When you have much more money than the average Joe, you need to do something with it, or else the game seems silly. Probably, spending twice the amount to eat cheeseburgers as the next guy is not the best option in town.. How about an buying a bigger EV?

If you have the physique of an NFL lineman, you don't tend to shop in the petite section. It's just different than being a toddler.

If you really must take six others on a date, order the S or the X.

If you can't get a date this week, the 3 will manage to seem cavernous.

As they said in the Seventies, go with the flow.
 
#6 ·
well, here's the "door storage" on my current Franz designed car. Perfect if you need to store a couple pencils or random crumbies... so door pockets have not been something he's been concerned with for a while.
(only 1 of the 4 cars I've owned HAVE had door pockets, excluding the Solstice of course).

(google provided pix)
 
#7 ·
Solstice door storage: In my case this type of shape and location would most likely gather snow, dirt, tiny rocks, leaves, coniferous needles, etc.

'only 1 of the 4 cars'... wow, Im so used to think family sedan when I think about a car that I hadn't thought there were car without storage, but if these were like the Solstice I can understand that storage and utility might not have been the cars' primary features. ;)
 
#8 · (Edited)
In my opinion, the S is not worth double on the base end of the 3. Taking that a step further, I am convinced that the Model 3 that I want with options bringing the car to somewhere in the mid to high $40s will be much better than a base Model S at $70k.

However, there are a few things that make the S "better".
  • It's size -- flagship sedans are always the biggest (see Mercedes S, Audi A8, and BMW 7).
  • Performance
  • Range
  • Appointments
  • Potential options
  • Exclusivity (Limited quanity in comparison)
It's all a matter of what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend. If you have the means to option out an S, then it's going to be substantially better than the 3.
 
#9 ·
In my opinion, the S is not worth double on the base end of the 3. Taking that a step further, I am convinced that the Model 3 that I want with options bringing the car to somewhere in the mid to high $40s will be much better than a base Model S at $70k.

However, there are a few things that make the S "better".
  • It's size -- flagship sedans are always the biggest (see Mercedes S, Audi A8, and BMW 7).
  • Performance
  • Range
  • Appointments
  • Potential options
  • Exclusivity (Limited quanity in comparison)
It's all a matter of what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend. If you have the means to option out an S, then it's going to be substantially better than the S.
I think you meant better than the 3.
 
#12 ·
I reserved a Model 3 in 3-31-16 in San Jise Californua, about 60th in line. After waiting a year, when I heard about the MS 60 being discontinued, I thought I'd take one last look, since it was really out if my budget. We originally took a test drive in a model S over a year ago. Or second test drive was just as impressive. We sat down and looked at the availability of inventory models. There was a black model S 60 that had been ordered previously and the order was canceled. This car had several advantages. First it was available within a weeks time. Second it was one of the last ones that still had lifetime unlimited supercharger access. This was a very big plus. Also, as a model S 60, The battery was upgradable to 75 kWh. This really turned out to be a great thing, since after the 60s were discontinued, they reduce the upgrade price to only $2000 from what was previously I think about $8000. We didn't get the color I really wanted (red), but it did come with a sunroof which we wanted. It's got the basic interior and the basic sound system and 19 inch wheels, but it actually gets better mileage with that size wheel, and the tires are less expensive. All in all, my only regret, is not being able to use my reservation for a model three. I guess I shouldn't complain because the model S is a fantastic car and I don't regret it one minute despite the cost.
 
#17 ·
The s is the top of the line....and much larger than the upcoming model 3.

That's all any of us know at this point. Wait for the reviews from automotive journalist soon enough...although I believe we will see reviews and tests comparing the BMW 3 series versus the model 3 more often...

Just imagine a BMW comparision test between the 7 series and the 3 series sedans....that's pretty much what the tesla model S versus a tesla model 3 comparision test should be...
 
G
#19 ·
What are these "extra features" that the S will have over the 3?
You are asking it in the wrong way. Correct question would be:
"what are those features, that will be missing on Model 3.". Or to be more precise, what features will not be standard.
And there will be many of those.
I will guess some (copied things from Tesla specs):
Onboard maps and navigation with free updates for 7 years- not sure that full Google Maps will be available. At least not satellite view. Tesla will limit the amount of data car will send/receive.
Automatic keyless entry - not sure that would be as good as on S/X. Though same sensors are used for keyless start, that will be standard, very likely.
Electrochromatic mirrors - definitely will not be standard. Likely to be available as an option, at least interior mirror.
Twelve way power adjustable, heated front seats with memory and driver profile - definitely not standard.
First of all, no more than 8-way manual seats. Upgradable. Seat heating might be standard, but not memory (not possible with manual seats). Steering column will not be electric as standard. Though possible upgrade, not sure.
Available Smart Air Suspension for raising and lowering ride height - definitely not standard and very likely not an option at all.
HEPA air filtration system - not standard. Biodefence mode likely not an option.
Lighted door handles - noup, not inside, not outside. And not even an option.
Interior accent lighting - noup. Most likely not an option either.
Now standard with automatic rear liftgate - not standard. Possibly not upgradable.
Full LED headlights and foglights - not likely. Though definitely upgradable.

Much much MUCH MUCH less trim parts inside and outside. Not only trim parts, the whole number of parts vehicle is made of
will be heavily reduced. But trim is what people see. Most noticeable is the interior. Even on Model S it was already "a problem" - not a lot of "bling" (aka chrome/brushed aluminum pieces, knobs, curves, seams etc). There will be even less on Model 3. We can start with missing adjustable airvents or possibly even less configurations for air distribution (idea is to reduce number of climate control servos down to 2 - one for air direction, one for fresh/recirc/supress.

Autopilot:
all around parking sensors -
adaptive cruise control -
high beam assist -
All those must be available due to AP hardware, but that doesn't mean they all be accessible for free, even if hardware is there.
Level 5 autonomy hardware - we've been promised autopilot hardware. Not sure about 8 cameras with appropriate computer being on every Model 3 for free. Like Elon said, upgrading self driving hardware will be a piece of cake. That also means upgrading computer to the full version.
again, mandatory for AP hardware, not sure about getting it without driving aid package.
I know they are mandatory for AP hardware, not sure will be available for free
 
#20 ·
I am excited about the M3 and all of it's features, design and performance.
However, I hope the MS will always be a step ahead, more refined, more comfortable and luxerous.

I drove a Prius for 5 years ..... great car.
Then traded it on a Toyota Avalon - Hybrid two years ago. A better car. Same "family," just better.
Larger, more comfortable, more luxurious.

Why do I feel that way? For the survival of Tesla as an automobile company. There have been many start-up auto companies with great designs, excited backers, but failed for a myriad of reasons. I want Tesla to succeed.-
 
#21 ·
I am excited about the M3 and all of it's features, design and performance.
However, I hope the MS will always be a step ahead, more refined, more comfortable and luxerous.

I drove a Prius for 5 years ..... great car.
Then traded it on a Toyota Avalon - Hybrid two years ago. A better car. Same "family," just better.
Larger, more comfortable, more luxurious.

Why do I feel that way? For the survival of Tesla as an automobile company. There have been many start-up auto companies with great designs, excited backers, but failed for a myriad of reasons. I want Tesla to succeed.-
You can rest assured the S will always be better than the 3. By nature of being the more expensive car, it's always going to be the place where new technology, materials, features, etc go first. It's also not a guarantee that those very features ever make it down to the 3. Some will over time for sure, but some may never make it down.

You may prefer a 3 to an S based on size of car alone or it's styling, but realistically you should never be able to say the 3 is "better" than the S.
 
#22 ·
Just discovered this thread and here is my take.

I drive a Prius Plug-In for three years now, It is the best car for me I have ever owned because of convenience, technology, economy, dependability, comfort, ease of maintenance, and I could go on. Is it the most luxurious? No, not even close. I loved the memory seats in the Benz 300 we owned. But I would pick the Prius over the Benz any day.

I don't want to own a MS because it is too large, too expensive for what you get, and it is not the image that I personally want to project to the world. For me the Model 3 is a better car than the MS. It has 90% of everything I want in a car and even more.

I think the MS/X models are doomed. EM built the roadster, S, and X to help fund model 3 development. I don't think MS/X is where his real interests lie. In my opinion, the MS/X will be phased out in 5 to 7 years. He wants to build a people's car, a Volkswagen, like the model 3 to supply relatively affordable, environment friendly cars to the world population. He wants to build an electric semi truck to provide more economical transport of goods. He wants to build an electric pick up truck to service the work place. Once the model 3 is profitable, I think he wants to develop a $15K commuter car to provide local transportation all over the world.

I have recognized EM personality types before. I think I know where he is coming from and where he is going. He is still relatively young and he has the time, money, and energy to innovate and create world changing systems. I wish I were younger, I would love to join him.
 
#23 ·
I concur (mostly). The Model S was ahead of its time, but while I don't think it will be gone as such, I do think it will be a different car.
The current S is quite different to the original S, much more refined and honed. So I'm not sure they will totally replace it, but will continue to develop and tweak it as they have been.
Having Model 3 around will allow them to take Model S that they could not have gone to earlier.
 
#25 ·
I think the Model 3 was maybe a bit accidentally similar to the Model S and Elon didn't expect people to think they were so similar. I would not be surprised to see the next gen of Model S to look a bit more luxurious to help show the differences more. And a performance boost. Especially with new EV car concepts being shown off having crazy horsepower and range, I'm sure Tesla will have a nice spec bump as always with each generation of Model S/X.
 
#26 ·
They have already bumped performance to add separation between the product lines. I'm sure you're right. The S will see another refresh soon. I say another since the new nose cone isn't even that old.
 
#27 · (Edited)
The 3 is definitely a better car given my preferences:
  • Size. I enjoy the feel of a smaller car. Easier to park, tighter turning radius.
  • Price. The 3 will still be by far the most expensive car I've ever purchased, and will hurt, bigtime. The S wouldn't have just hurt, it would've killed me.
  • Field of View.
    • The 3 has what Trev calls the "taller greenhouse." It's only like an inch less tall than the S, but the dash is much, much lower, giving a more expansive, SUV like field of view.
    • The rear-seats have finally been designed with field of view in mind. From pics of RCs, you can see that the middle seat head-rest is removable/adjustable. FINALLY!
But there are some more objective reasons to think the 3 will be better than the S:
  • A more experienced design team: Generally, people get better at things the more they do them. This is now the fourth car they've sold, and the third they've designed completely on their own.
  • A more complete design team: the S and X were designed without the input of manufacturing experts, a publicly stated frustration by the S's chief engineer, Peter Rawlinson, now with Lucid. The 3's design team included manufacturing experts from the start.
  • Designed for Manufacturability = Simplicity = Reliability (and cost savings). I'm already straining to afford this car, and I CANNOT worry about frequent breakdowns and repair costs for superfluous flash, like the self-presenting doorhandles of the S.
    • As stated by Elon, the X was based on the already complex and difficult to manufacture S, but even more complex and more difficult to manufacture--a Rube-Goldberg machine that can lead only to repair headaches down the road.
  • Energy efficiency. No matter what the range, I care about efficiency, and the 3 will be more so due to: lower drag coefficient, smaller cross sectional area, re-designed inverter, smaller contact-patch between tires and road.
I'm leaving a lot of issues off the table, but most are specific enough to fall under one of the points already covered.

Keep in mind that the S will continue to evolve and improve, and that future innovations will be put there first, maintaining the differentiation between the lines and justifying the $100k+ average sale prices of the S/X. For example, the "spaceship controls" for sure referred to an augmented reality HUD on the windscreen (hence the lowered dash to make room for it, without the added expense and engineering/manufacturing cost of the "big sky" windscreen of the X). But Elon got carried away when he said that in terms of the 3, wisened up and took it out of the initial releases of the 3 so as not to repeat the mistakes made with the release of the X, but will put it into the S and X. Soon.

My conclusion that the 3 is a better car than the S in most ways... won't last long, even when accounting for affordability.
 
#29 ·
The 3 is definitely a better car given my preferences:
  • Size. I enjoy the feel of a smaller car. Easier to park, tighter turning radius.
  • Price. The 3 will still be by far the most expensive car I've ever purchased, and will hurt, bigtime. The S wouldn't have just hurt, it would've killed me.
  • Field of View.
    • The 3 has what Trev calls the "taller greenhouse." It's only like an inch less tall than the S, but the dash is much, much lower, giving a more expansive, SUV like field of view.
    • The rear-seats have finally been designed with field of view in mind. From pics of RCs, you can see that the middle seat head-rest is removable/adjustable. FINALLY!
But there are some more objective reasons to think the 3 will be better than the S:
  • A more experienced design team: Generally, people get better at things the more they do them. This is now the fourth car they've sold, and the third they've designed completely on their own.
  • A more complete design team: the S and X were designed without the input of manufacturing experts, a publicly stated frustration by the S's chief engineer, Peter Rawlinson, now with Lucid. The 3's design team included manufacturing experts from the start.
  • Designed for Manufacturability = Simplicity = Reliability (and cost savings). I'm already straining to afford this car, and I CANNOT worry about frequent breakdowns and repair costs for superfluous flash, like the self-presenting doorhandles of the S.
    • As stated by Elon, the X was based on the already complex and difficult to manufacture S, but even more complex and more difficult to manufacture--a Rube-Goldberg machine that can lead only to repair headaches down the road.
  • Energy efficiency. No matter what the range, I care about efficiency, and the 3 will be more so due to: lower drag coefficient, smaller cross sectional area, re-designed inverter, smaller contact-patch between tires and road.
I'm leaving a lot of issues off the table, but most are specific enough to fall under one of the points already covered.

Keep in mind that the S will continue to evolve and improve, and that future innovations will be put there first, maintaining the differentiation between the lines and justifying the $100k+ average sale prices of the S/X. For example, the "spaceship controls" for sure referred to an augmented reality HUD on the windscreen (hence the lowered dash to make room for it, without the added expense and engineering/manufacturing cost of the "big sky" windscreen of the X). But Elon got carried away when he said that in terms of the 3, wisened up and took it out of the initial releases of the 3 so as not to repeat the mistakes made with the release of the X, but will put it into the S and X. Soon.

My conclusion that the 3 is a better car than the S in most ways... won't last long, even when accounting for affordability.
I think we need to be clear here --- the 3 is not and never will be a "better" car than the S.

Now at the individual buyer level there will be many factors that lead someone to say the 3 is better ranging from design to preference in having a smaller car to what you get for the money spent.

In the end, overall, the S will still be better. It's going to get the newest tech first, the highest quality materials, and the best performance.
 
#28 ·
They are going to keep S and X ahead of 3. There is market for big luxury cars. They got a good share of that maket. I doubt Elon would concede that easily.

I think now that 3 is out, they would focus on and refresh interior of S and make it more compelling product. Launch roadster and grab more of high end market.
 
#33 ·
I think the S certainly has it's high end cache. I think the S and X will continue in some form with flattened growth numbers and good margins for the no compromise crowd. They will have the Jetsons features first too.

However for me the 3 will be the ultimate car. Having driven a couple of Mercedes and a BMW I was quite impressed with high end German luxury poured over incredible engineering. However the Nissan Leaf has made me happier in a little jack rabbit that never visited a gas station except for tire pressure and gum. I just can't drive it cross country or even on longer day trips after a few years.

It's half the cost of an S - important to a retiree. However regardless of price I will have a beautiful car - bigger than anything I've owned including a late 90's Camry. I will have to adjust up to its size. It will be quicker than I am comfortable with, AWD for the big hills I live on, and with auto safety and autopilot features I never dreamed of for most of my driving career. Lastly with a little luck one day it will chauffeur me around.
 
#39 ·
My ideal tesla would be based on the Model 3, with some tweaks:
- Bit longer nose (big frunk)
- Bit longer butt (hello trunk)
- Model S rear roof line and hatch.
- extra screen behind the steering wheel
- space for extra double stacked battery module per the S, main screen worked into the dash

Now how much would that cost extra to make? Bit of extra aluminium and plastic. And we know batteries are cheap.
The 60 RWD version of this quasi-S I just wrote up, should cost no more than $40k, $5K extra.
In a small production run, yes, it would be quite expensive, but done in place of Model 3 over the past years, surely doable at the same margin as the 3 coming out now.

So the S does seem to offer a lower value to me than the 3, even the (new) base version S75D. Over double the price of a base Model 3. All you get is similar range, front wheel traction in winter or on the drag strip, qn extra screen and a bigger boot, pretty much. Not worth $40k extra. But, I can't really see myself putting a bike in the back of Model 3. Even my ancient Mazda 323F with flappy headlights asked for more after I tossed in two.
 
#45 ·
My ideal tesla would be based on the Model 3, with some tweaks:
- Bit longer nose (big frunk)
- Bit longer butt (hello trunk)
- Model S rear roof line and hatch.
- extra screen behind the steering wheel
- space for extra double stacked battery module per the S, main screen worked into the dash

Now how much would that cost extra to make? Bit of extra aluminium and plastic. And we know batteries are cheap.
The 60 RWD version of this quasi-S I just wrote up, should cost no more than $40k, $5K extra.
In a small production run, yes, it would be quite expensive, but done in place of Model 3 over the past years, surely doable at the same margin as the 3 coming out now.

So the S does seem to offer a lower value to me than the 3, even the (new) base version S75D. Over double the price of a base Model 3. All you get is similar range, front wheel traction in winter or on the drag strip, qn extra screen and a bigger boot, pretty much. Not worth $40k extra. But, I can't really see myself putting a bike in the back of Model 3. Even my ancient Mazda 323F with flappy headlights asked for more after I tossed in two.
Not so much a 'Quasi-S' to me... It sounds as if you want to see a direct competitor to the AUDI A6, BMW 5-Series, and Mercedes-Benz E-Class from Tesla. I believe the Model ☰ will handle that duty just fine. I expect that it will have the same Midsize classification as those three from the EPA. And due to the electric drivetrain it may well end up being larger in overall interior volume than they are.
 
#40 ·
In my opinion, the S is not worth double on the base end of the 3. Taking that a step further, I am convinced that the Model 3 that I want with options bringing the car to somewhere in the mid to high $40s will be much better than a base Model S at $70k.

However, there are a few things that make the S "better".
  • It's size -- flagship sedans are always the biggest (see Mercedes S, Audi A8, and BMW 7).
  • Performance
  • Range
  • Appointments
  • Potential options
  • Exclusivity (Limited quanity in comparison)
It's all a matter of what you're looking for and what you're willing to spend. If you have the means to option out an S, then it's going to be substantially better than the 3.
I think this is spot on. I think part of the problem is that Tesla has got a lot of non-car-people interested in cars, and they don't really understand positioning and automotive market segments. In the beginning, it seemed like lots of EV journalists/enthusiasts thought the Model 3 was somehow going to be the flagship Tesla model, which of course is crazy.

Like any car maker, the biggest and best will be reserved for the top of the line models. Even if some of the stats are not too far apart, like range and 0-60 times of base models, the S and X will always have a nicer fit and finish - the kind of thing that can't be expressed in bullet-point. That's what people that buy $80k+ cars pay for. Take a test drive of a 7-series and 3-series back to back on the same route, and you'll be amazed how much more regal, comfortable, and road-owning the 7 feels. How do you translate those feelings into numbers? You don't, and that's what differentiates big expensive cars from the more entry level models. Add to that fancy tech that doesn't make its way to the cheaper cars, like air suspension and turning headlights, and you'll see the differences.
 
#41 ·
it seemed like lots of EV journalists/enthusiasts thought the Model 3 was somehow going to be the flagship Tesla model, which of course is crazy.
I think the TESLA 3 will be the flagship model for TESLA for the near and far future. The MS/X/Roadster were just a means to an end, - to generate the revenue and real world experience for EM's mass market dream car. I think there will always be a market for the MS/X/new roadster but that limited demand would not be enough to sustain a fledgling auto manufacturer. I see EM developing a sub-$20K car and sub-$10K car in the future. He is serious about changing the way people transport themselves and the way they think. He knows he can't do that with $100K cars.
 
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