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As Model 3 was announced, what, 5 years before belivery, not to speak of Model X, this doesn't mean other brands will send out prophecies this long in advance. Some car companies only present a car when it's basically already in production. And just now we learned that BMW/Mini seem to have found to way to make more EV models without tooooo much effort. One car will come in petrol, diesel, hybrid and BEV.
The problem is that 'scattershot' principle of multiple drivetrains simply does not work to promote battery electric vehicles at all. Take a look at the General Motors EV1 project, and you'll see that GM also tried to come up with multiple 'solutions' in order to avoid making an actual fully electric car. That is why there were so many cost overruns on the car, they designed the same thing five different ways, all with the intent of discrediting the need for an electric version.

Further, it is the 'independent franchised dealerships' that are the real Customers for traditional automobile manufacturers. I wouldn't doubt that quite a few of them are ecstatic that 'dirty diesel' vehicles will no longer be on the market. It makes it that much simpler for them to staff their service departments. Because now technicians don't have to learn two parallel engine systems from a manufacturer to get certification.

We can't look at the progress by other brands over the past 5 or even the past 2 years, and expect the next time interval to net the same. If you've been to a proper auto show this year (I was in Geneva) you know it's relly building "steam".
I'm looking at the complete lack of progress I have noted over the course of 35+ years of observing the automobile industry as a whole. Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles have been '10-to-15 years away' as affordable vehicles for the past 40 years. In hindsight, the drivetrain shown for the 1986 Pontiac Banshee concept car was an idea for a hybrid electric vehicle. The Cadillac Converj concept car took about four or five years to become the Cadillac ELR, even though it was based on the Chevrolet VOLT... But it appeared with a $35,000 premium over the VOLT, and a $40,000 premium over the Cadillac ATS Coupe. The Mercedes-Benz AMG SLS Electric Drive appeared in 2013, five years after the Tesla Roadster, but even with quad motor all wheel drive it cost four times as much for slightly more battery capacity, a lot less range, and the exact same 0-60 MPH time. The RIMAC Concept One cost even more, in the neighborhood of a million bucks, but has been eclipsed by the Tesla Model S P100D.

My main point that ineed, Model 3 is a better deal evven though it's smaller and less spec'd than Model S. This makes Model S overpriced for what it is, a slightly bigger posh version of Model 3 (once the latter is being rolled out).
Well, your main point is flawed. People will buy what they want, what they need, and what they can afford. Tesla's competitors all operate on the exact same concept. The Jaguar XE is a 'better deal' than the XJ. The AUDI A4 is a 'better deal' than the A8 L. The Lexus IS is a 'better deal' than the LS. What matters most is that the Tesla Model S is a 'better deal' than the XJ, A8 L, LS, 7-Series, Panamera, Quattroporte, and S-Class, and has been from the very beginning. You know what? The Genesis G90 is a 'better deal' than those cars too -- and it is soundly outsold by the Tesla Model S -- because the Tesla is WORTH EVERY PENNY.

Now the Germans may not be turning their big sedans into bargain basement deals, competing with Model S/X will be good business for someone. Especially the double over priced long range, dual motor, performance versions. $150K (double) for a car with only slightly more range, quickness and features?
The Germans have done the same thing when challenged by Tesla as they did 25+ years ago when accosted by Lexus and Infiniti. They raised their prices to achieve 'exclusivity', added more powerful engines to establish their 'superiority', and improved their interiors to enhance 'luxury'. The difference is, that it didn't work this time. Because the real difference is the technology and the driving experience it provides. No ICE, no matter how many cylinders, cams, valves, or turbos you throw at the problem, will be as smooth, quiet, and immediately responsive as an electric motor. It just can't be done.

Your point about pricing is also moot. There is a $26,500 difference between the base price of a Model S and the base price of an S550. There used to be a version of the Panamera that started at $263,000. There is still a version of the NEW Panamera that starts at $194,000 -- that's 129.18% over base. A fully loaded Model S is an absolute bargain compared to its contemporaries, just as is the 'entry level' Model S.

If the local crack dealer is having problem supplying his goods at $200 per shot and you are pretty sure you can offer shot at $150 and make a cool $100 on each, using a sales network that can handle more demand, you have an opportunity you can't walk away from, apart from the ethical and criminal side of things.
If I might suggest...? Such an analogy in a public forum on the internet invites all sorts of insults that I can only just barely resist pummeling you with... But, I will say this... The point of crack from the very outset was that it was cheap on a 'per hit' basis (it was the doing hundreds of hits per week that got you). Dude, if you or anyone you know is paying that much, you are seriously getting ripped off.

Hyundai can very well develop a Model S like car, with performance between the 100D and P100D, and undercut Tesla by A LOT. Lexus could also. Wouldn't you want a $100K Lexus that compares well to the $150K Tesla? Certainly when the roadsides are painted shut with CCS chargers... The next 2 years more will happen witht he competition than the past 10. They're till behind, Tesla doesn't have direct competitors...yet.
Wow. I can't really decide if I should simply ridicule every single word in this passage, or actually take you seriously...

The aforementioned Genesis G90 is for all intents and purposes a very nice car. It seems to hit around 95% or better of all the points that people revel in when it comes to 'luxury' appointments. I suspect there are quite a few among Tesla Enthusiasts that really would like to see a redux of the Model S interior to be a clone of the Genesis G90. But really, that ain't gonna happen, EVER. So you can hang up that fantasy for good.

Hyundai has done a rather impressive job with the Ioniq Electric. I just wonder how much better they could have done if they hadn't spent so many of their engineering funds on developing a hybrid and hybrid plug-in version as well. In particular, it is impressive that they have managed to produce the highly efficient wimpified 'long range' low battery pack capacity front wheel drive basic vehicle that so many have claimed they wanted to get from Tesla... A car that was 'ordinary' or 'regular' and 'tuned for range' as opposed to 'performance' they claim not to need. I especially like its efficient use of space so that even without a frunk it has tremendous volume for passengers and cargo. It is the Midsize Camry/Prius analog of what could be done if one of those were fully electric and as middle-of-the-road vanilla as possible.

But really? There is absolutely NOTHING about the Ioniq that leads me to believe Hyundai could develop a car to rival the Model S in pricing and performance. The Genesis G90 starts at $68,100 -- so there is no way at all that it could 'undercut' a Model S after adding an electric drivetrain. Maybe you would go with the Genesis G80 instead as a base to challenge Tesla?

$41,400 ___ Genesis G80 (197″ L x 74″ W x 58″ H)
$68,100 ___ Genesis G90 (205″ L x 75″ W x 59″ H)
$69,500 ___ Tesla Model S 75 (196″ L x 77″ W x 57″ H)

OK. That might work. Hyundai would have a good chunk of cash to work with it seems. So if we were to assume they wanted to come in at 5% less than the base Model S... That would be maybe $66,100 as an MSRP. And if you presume that the engine and transmission is roughly 25% of the cost of the G80, then the rest of the car would be about $31,050. So that would leave, after a further 5% margin granted to 'independent franchised dealerships' for the privilege of selling Genesis products... Maybe $31,745 to put toward the conversion process per car. Maybe use twice the battery pack capacity of the Ioniq Electric, so a 56 kWh battery pack...

And presto! Your brand spanking new Hyundai built alternative to a Tesla Model S 75, deemed a Genesis G80 E55 would sell to absolutely no one with its whopping huge 182 mile EPA rated range and zero Supercharger access. Happy?

EDIT: In case you hadn't realized, I have no interest in the trappings of 'luxury' at all. So no, I don't want a Lexus anything at any price. Perhaps you do, that's cool, go ahead and buy one. But if there is ever a fully electric Lexus, they will be the ones getting undercut by a Hyundai/Genesis product, not Tesla.
 
And just now we learned that BMW/Mini seem to have found to way to make more EV models without tooooo much effort. One car will come in petrol, diesel, hybrid and BEV.
And therein lies their fatal error!


A viable EV is not a warmed over ICE car. Bummer is just being lazy about developing an EV that can compete successfully with an MS/X/3 when they think they can take an existing body style and convert it to an EV. Another example is the Jugular I-Pace. It looks like a warmed over F-Pace.

For the most part the traditional car manufacturers have shown little interest in developing a new concept EV car for the future - one that not only looks different but feels different. They have shown for the moment, they have no vision or plan for moving their companies into the future of personal transportation. It is not just building a car with similar specifications to a TESLA, it is a commitment to embracing automotive revolution and evolution. They will have to learn a very painful lesson in order to survive in the long run.
 
If that would be true that would already happen 10+ years ago (Before Electrification). Hyundai nor Lexus are high performance brands.
The fact that it is "easier" to make EV better at acceleration applies not only to those low-performance brands like Kia and Hyundai but also Mercedes, BMW, Porsche etc.
You may need to read up on your Lexus a bit. There have been developments this past decade in terms of performance.
 
And therein lies their fatal error!


A viable EV is not a warmed over ICE car. Bummer is just being lazy about developing an EV that can compete successfully with an MS/X/3 when they think they can take an existing body style and convert it to an EV. Another example is the Jugular I-Pace. It looks like a warmed over F-Pace.

For the most part the traditional car manufacturers have shown little interest in developing a new concept EV car for the future - one that not only looks different but feels different. They have shown for the moment, they have no vision or plan for moving their companies into the future of personal transportation. It is not just building a car with similar specifications to a TESLA, it is a commitment to embracing automotive revolution and evolution. They will have to learn a very painful lesson in order to survive in the long run.
Perhaps there are different customers. Some are BEV converts who go out and buy a BEV.
Others are not really into the tech so much. They like the Mini. What;s that electric version for? Well it'quick, clean, the govt gives you a tax break and the "tank" is always full when you leave in the morning. Cool, I'll hve that one. Some people genuinely don't care about gas vs eletrons, and if the EV is a viable solution, it will be sold. "I heard the new neighbors have one like it".
 
Well this has been interesting and I think shows the diversity of this market is like others: perception of brands, personal preferences, product cycles, consumer sentiments, marketing, comparisons, FUD, etc., will be in the EV market, too.

That said, I ascribe some real strength to the Tesla brand. When I strolled into the Tysons showroom to reserve pre-reveal, the staff told me about the line that started before the doors opened that day. The Tesla showroom is behind a huge Audi dealership. Can you imagine them watching the line form? For a car that hadn't even been revealed yet? It was like a new iPhone launch. (And oh btw without advertising.)

Yes, we are now looking at Tesla heading to the mass market. How that plays out is subject to various factors inside and outside Tesla. But they do it with some brand power behind it.
 
Well, the Genesis G90 isn't exactly a pushover when it comes to Performance stats... 0-60 MPH comes in 5.3 seconds. Though the upcoming 2018 Lexus LS 500 will manage that feat in 4.5 seconds, reportedly. Prior to the introduction of 'F Sport' editions, Lexus was content to allow all its other cars (GS, ES, and IS) be also-rans to the LS. They seem to have rethought that strategy, allowing 'lesser' cars in their lineup to defeat their flagship on their own merit (instead of being purposely gimped).
 
Well, the Genesis G90 isn't exactly a pushover when it comes to Performance stats... 0-60 MPH comes in 5.3 seconds. Though the upcoming 2018 Lexus LS 500 will manage that feat in 4.5 seconds, reportedly. Prior to the introduction of 'F Sport' editions, Lexus was content to allow all its other cars (GS, ES, and IS) be also-rans to the LS. They seem to have rethought that strategy, allowing 'lesser' cars in their lineup to defeat their flagship on their own merit (instead of being purposely gimped).
Understand. And perhaps we'll see this in the future for Tesla -- enthusiast line of performance vehicles -- down the road a little bit!

Tesla may want to establish the M3, sustain/refresh the MS (and refresh/replace the MX?), launch/establish the MY, perhaps then refresh the M3, having launched the R 2.0, and somewhere there was a Semi and perhaps Tesla Pickup and/or Utility/Delivery Van? Whew!

S, 3, X, Y, R, U, M, P?

(Roadster, Utility, Massive semi, Pickup)
 
Understand. And perhaps we'll see this in the future for Tesla -- enthusiast line of performance vehicles -- down the road a little bit!
The original Model S 85 was rated at 4.2 seconds 0-60 MPH... five years ago. Then when MOTOR TREND tested the car they got it to 3.9 seconds initially, and later to 3.7 seconds with the Model S P85+, I think. That was well before the dual motor versions with INSANE or LUDICROUS modes arrived.

Tesla may want to establish the M3, sustain/refresh the MS (and refresh/replace the MX?), launch/establish the MY, perhaps then refresh the M3, having launched the R 2.0, and somewhere there was a Semi and perhaps Tesla Pickup and/or Utility/Delivery Van? Whew!

S, 3, X, Y, R, U, M, P?

(Roadster, Utility, Massive semi, Pickup)
I may be wrong, but I get the impression that Elon Musk is more of a 'Pretty Face' man than a '[BUTTOCKS]' man. Check out his previous Wives. Plus he's supposed to be 'hanging out with' the chick who's going to portray Mera, Aquaman's wife-to-be in the DC Universe movies too, right?
 
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