Impact of high amp charging on Model 3 battery life

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#44
the rate on the X isn't really relevant. it's a different onboard charger and the 3 itself has a different range per kWh than the S or X.
Gotcha... didn't think of that. Not sure that the charger in the 3 is that much different, but rate of charge would definitely be different. Curious if we can get a definitive miles-per-hour charge screen shot.
 
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RiggerJon

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#45
so is the charge rate at the 48a consistent as you were seeing with the UMCs, and pretty equal 1mile:1amp, so about 48miles/hour of charge rate?
I'm going back through the pics I've taken and I think I might've misstated the 40 amp charge rate somewhere along the way. I'll try to locate & correct.

When I'm at home with a 50 amp circuit & old UMC, the 40 amp pull charges at about 30 miles/hr. The TWC I used yesterday pulled 48 amps & was around 36 miles/hr. The install of the TWC had a pretty long run from the main panel, so I suspect that 36 figure is a little less than what it's capable of in an ideal setting.
 

RiggerJon

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#47
Gotcha... didn't think of that. Not sure that the charger in the 3 is that much different, but rate of charge would definitely be different. Curious if we can get a definitive miles-per-hour charge screen shot.
The charger(s) setup on the X are different. To compare across models you really need to evaluate it by kW. I charge at 10kW at home with a 40 amp pull via the old UMC, and yesterday the TWC at 48 amps was 12kW. Perhaps an S or X owner can weigh in on theirs.
 

jmmdownhil

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#48
Great info about charging options. I haven't seen anything about "surge protection". Is that built in on the Tesla battery/charger/cable systems or is it necessary to add this to the 40/50 amp line?
 

Brokedoc

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#49
The charger(s) setup on the X are different. To compare across models you really need to evaluate it by kW. I charge at 10kW at home with a 40 amp pull via the old UMC, and yesterday the TWC at 48 amps was 12kW. Perhaps an S or X owner can weigh in on theirs.
The battery management system is VERY complex. The kW fluctuates based on battery existing charge level (and on the SC based on if other cars are plugged into the second channel). Then the MPH charge rate also fluctuates based on the vehicle's energy usage. Sitting in the car while charging and using A/C and blasting music or if the battery cooler pump is active will give less MPH for the same kW. It's really hard to compare screenshots without controlling for the other variables. Generally the current readings equalize after being plugged in for a minute or so and we should try to turn off excess power sources to get an idea of steady state charge rate while plugged in and car is off.
 

Brokedoc

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#50
Great info about charging options. I haven't seen anything about "surge protection". Is that built in on the Tesla battery/charger/cable systems or is it necessary to add this to the 40/50 amp line?
Great question! I have no idea about surge protection built into the Tesla but when I had my service redone for my house, I bought a "whole house" surge protector that's not as expensive as you would think. Below I have a link to one for under $200. Only a little more complicated than putting in a breaker switch but you may need to rearrange some circuits in you box to put the surge protector as close to the service as possible for maximal protection. I still have extra surge protectors for my TVs and computers but it's a small price to pay for all the expensive things we have plugged in...

Leviton 1 panel surge protector
 

JWardell

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#51
I have no doubt Tesla has some excellent surge protection built into the car's chargers, but if you are in an area prone to lightning or surges, it wouldn't hurt to add extra like the Leviton linked above to better protect your $50,000 plug-in electrical device.
 

voip-ninja

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#52
I have no doubt Tesla has some excellent surge protection built into the car's chargers, but if you are in an area prone to lightning or surges, it wouldn't hurt to add extra like the Leviton linked above to better protect your $50,000 plug-in electrical device.
Are there any documented cases of a grid surge causing a Tesla battery or electrical system to become damaged? Seems like it would really, really be in Tesla's best interest to handle this on their end of things.
 
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4701

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#53
I have no doubt Tesla has some excellent surge protection built into the car's chargers,
Highly doubt it. Powerful surge protectors must be replaceable. Not mentioned anywhere.
Though adding surge protection at mains box is doable with good grounding.

Here in Estonia, two weeks ago first EV, Nissan Leaf, got an indirect hit from the grid while charging.
Onboard charger died. Insurance paid for damage as it was "force majeure" (like flooding, tree, fire etc).
Some time ago vehicle got a direct hit (though not EV). Slight paint defect. Also insurance covered.

PS: how do you guys call these two different insurances:
a) insurance that is mandatory (covers the cost if you are guilty to properties of other parties and occupants)
b) insurance that is not mandatory (except leased vehicles), covers the cost of your own property damage (with small deductible) - excludes any costs due to bad behaviour (drunk, rally etc)
 

mishakim

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#54
Highly doubt it. Powerful surge protectors must be replaceable. Not mentioned anywhere.
Though adding surge protection at mains box is doable with good grounding.

Here in Estonia, two weeks ago first EV, Nissan Leaf, got an indirect hit from the grid while charging.
Onboard charger died. Insurance paid for damage as it was "force majeure" (like flooding, tree, fire etc).
Some time ago vehicle got a direct hit (though not EV). Slight paint defect. Also insurance covered.

PS: how do you guys call these two different insurances:
a) insurance that is mandatory (covers the cost if you are guilty to properties of other parties and occupants)
b) insurance that is not mandatory (except leased vehicles), covers the cost of your own property damage (with small deductible) - excludes any costs due to bad behaviour (drunk, rally etc)
In the US, such things vary state-by-state, but in general:
a) is called Liability insurance
b) can have two parts, called Comprehensive and Collision (Collision is for damage to the car due to you crashing it or another car crashing into it, Comprehensive is any other type of damage)
There is also Uninsured Motorist coverage, required by some states, to cover the damage to your car or person if the other driver doesn't have any or enough Liability insurance
 

voip-ninja

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#56
Which are mandatory by law? Or contract.
This is quite a tangent and I'd recommend moving this to a new topic. The short answer is that state law typically requires that you carry insurance for damage and bodily injury caused while you are driving. "full" comprehensive coverage that covers other cases is not typically required unless the vehicle is under a loan or lease, the bank will always require you have this coverage to underwrite your lease or loan.
 

JWardell

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#57
Highly doubt it. Powerful surge protectors must be replaceable. Not mentioned anywhere.
Though adding surge protection at mains box is doable with good grounding.

Here in Estonia, two weeks ago first EV, Nissan Leaf, got an indirect hit from the grid while charging.
Onboard charger died. Insurance paid for damage as it was "force majeure" (like flooding, tree, fire etc).
Some time ago vehicle got a direct hit (though not EV). Slight paint defect. Also insurance covered.

PS: how do you guys call these two different insurances:
a) insurance that is mandatory (covers the cost if you are guilty to properties of other parties and occupants)
b) insurance that is not mandatory (except leased vehicles), covers the cost of your own property damage (with small deductible) - excludes any costs due to bad behaviour (drunk, rally etc)
I disagree. There is no way Tesla would take chances saving a few pennies with poor surge protection and chance high numbers of failed chargers.
I can't think of ANY other home electronics with replaceable surge protection.
And actually, replacing a failed charger or battery pack is of course possible.
Are you saying that Tesla doesn't have well-designed chargers just because your Leaf doesn't? Don't even get me started on the differences between the Leaf and Tesla battery design and management.
 
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#59
I’ll make an attempt to get back on topic here....

Given what we know and how the Tesla battery managment behaves I think it is safe to say any AC based charge rate is not likely doing any meaningful harm to the pack. 32, 40, or 48 amps after the 10% or so loss converting that AC to DC to charge the cells is not going to stress a pack of the Model 3’s size.

Supercharging heavily seems different. It has to equal some increased stress on the battery especially if you supercharge to high states of charge. Like more than 80%. The rate tapering that is applied demonstrates that. The Chevy Bolt accepts 50kW but tapers off aggressively. Tesla’s take in more than double that rate and taper off much higher in the charge curve but with a larger pack. I’m sure this is all carefully calculated to protect the manufacturers from warranty claims on the battery packs which are very long for the automotive world and result in a big financial liability for the company’s until the cars age out of warranty.