High Speed AEB Automatic Emergency Braking

scottf200

Active Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
42
Location
Chicagoland
Country
Country
#1
The Model S and X have High Speed AEB (> 50 MPH & <= 90 MPH). It appears that the 3 only has Low Speed AEB at this point (<= 50 MPH).

Perhaps this has been discussed but has there been any news on Tesla doing testing and then adding High Speed AEB (note: hardware radar/camera are typically the issue but the 3 has them. On the Volt, for example, you only get the undocumented High Speed AEB if you also get the Driver Confidence Package II and ACC/Adaptive Cruise Control).
(Aside: Volt and Bolt Low Speed AEB is <= 37 MPH; Gen II LEAF is Low Speed <= 50 MPH
; Volt's undocumented High Speed AEB supposedly comes with ACC -- can not find doc)


Model 3 manual:
Automatic Emergency Braking operates only when driving between approximately 7 mph (10 km/h) and 50 mph (80 km/h).
Related story: https://insideevs.com/tesla-autopilot-2-5-activates-high-speed-aeb/
 
Last edited:

LucyferSam

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2017
Messages
203
Location
Ames, IA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#2
The Model S and X have High Speed AEB (> 50 MPH & <= 90 MPH). It appears that the 3 only has Low Speed AEB at this point (<= 50 MPH).

Perhaps this has been discussed but has there been any news on Tesla doing testing and then adding High Speed AEB (note: hardware radar/camera are typically the issue but the 3 has them. On the Volt, for example, you only get the undocumented High Speed AEB if you also get the Driver Confidence Package II and ACC/Adaptive Cruise Control).

Model 3 manual:


Related story: https://insideevs.com/tesla-autopilot-2-5-activates-high-speed-aeb/
High speed AEB should be activated by a software update fairly soon, my delivery specialist expected it to happen sometime in the next month or 2.
 
4

4701

Guest
#3
High speed AEB requires radar. It can't work with cameras and ultrasonic sensors. Usually, adaptive cruise works only with radar and therefore high speed AEB is available only if radar is mounted. Radar is an expensive thing, compared to cameras. Some vehicles have radar but still don't have high speed AEB.
 

Dan Detweiler

Top-Contributor
Joined
Apr 8, 2016
Messages
1,573
Location
Canton, Georgia
Country
Country
#4
High speed AEB requires radar. It can't work with cameras and ultrasonic sensors. Usually, adaptive cruise works only with radar and therefore high speed AEB is available only if radar is mounted. Radar is an expensive thing, compared to cameras. Some vehicles have radar but still don't have high speed AEB.
I thought auto pilot was currently running on the RADAR and one camera. Am I wrong on that?

Dan
 

Runt8

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
231
Location
Parker, CO
Tesla Owner
No
Country
Country
#8
High speed AEB requires radar. It can't work with cameras and ultrasonic sensors. Usually, adaptive cruise works only with radar and therefore high speed AEB is available only if radar is mounted. Radar is an expensive thing, compared to cameras. Some vehicles have radar but still don't have high speed AEB.
Not sure I understand this as it relates to the Model 3, which comes standard with radar.

An owner recently posted a list of “coming soon” features he received from Tesla, one of which was high speed AEB.
 

Mistersandman

Active Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
107
Location
CA
Country
Country
#9
Has anyone ever tested AEB to see if it actually works? I had the collision avoidance warning activate on me this morning when a car in front of me was cut off and slammed on his brakes. Since I was paying attention I anticipated it and broke way early. It got me to thinking if AEB would have actually stopped or slowed for me had I not done anything.
 

Bokonon

Self-identified Teslaholic
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2017
Messages
3,065
Location
Boston
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#10
Has anyone ever tested AEB to see if it actually works? I had the collision avoidance warning activate on me this morning when a car in front of me was cut off and slammed on his brakes. Since I was paying attention I anticipated it and broke way early. It got me to thinking if AEB would have actually stopped or slowed for me had I not done anything.
Keep in mind that the primary purpose of AEB is to *mitigate* the impact of a crash once one is *likely* to occur, rather than *avoid* a crash entirely. As such, it's not really something that you'd *want* to test. :)

Sounds like the forward-collision warning was effective, though!
 

Runt8

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
231
Location
Parker, CO
Tesla Owner
No
Country
Country
#11
Keep in mind that the primary purpose of AEB is to *mitigate* the impact of a crash once one is *likely* to occur, rather than *avoid* a crash entirely. As such, it's not really something that you'd *want* to test. :)

Sounds like the forward-collision warning was effective, though!
This.

All the professional testing I've seen use a flimsy structure covered with a radar opaque cloth to simulate a vehicle, often towed behind a truck. This allows AEB to be tested without damaging the vehicle.


I've also seen videos of people trying to test it themselves using cardboard boxes but that generally doesn't work (and then they are convinced that AEB doesn't work either...).
 

Mistersandman

Active Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
107
Location
CA
Country
Country
#12
Keep in mind that the primary purpose of AEB is to *mitigate* the impact of a crash once one is *likely* to occur, rather than *avoid* a crash entirely. As such, it's not really something that you'd *want* to test. :)

Sounds like the forward-collision warning was effective, though!
Yes. Of course I don’t want anyone to try running into a brick wall. I was thinking of a simulation. Like a large piece of fabric or a big section of cardboard or a large piece of styrofoam. I tried searching for a video but I couldn’t find anything specific to a Tesla that was successful. Also, I know what the manual says. Just interested in real-world data.
 
4

4701

Guest
#13
Keep in mind that the primary purpose of AEB is to *mitigate* the impact of a crash once one is *likely* to occur, rather than *avoid* a crash entirely.
No. Tests show that most city AEB systems avoid collision and mitigate in case of high speed.
Some avoid in both scenarios. There are no modern AEB systems that do not avoid entirely.
 

Spiffywerks

Well-Known Member
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
387
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#15
How close does the car let you get before it brakes on it’s own? Today coming to a stop and let the car continue to roll slowly ahead, ~5mph, and came within 18” and it didn’t engage brakes. Does it only work when you go faster?
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
11,082
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#16

ahagge

Active Member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Messages
183
Location
Northridge, CA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#17

DR61

Active Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
83
Location
Redding, CA
Country
Country
#18
I'm still very curious to know why the AEB apparently didn't function in this case of rear-ending of a stopped vehicle:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9af1e3f780c0

I would have thought that there would have been some deceleration, even if not enough to completely avoid the collision. It seems like AEB didn't function at all in this case... :(
Radar detection will ignore stopped vehicles IF it did not detect them moving initially. So if a detected moving vehicle blocks radar detection of a stopped vehicle, then moves out of the lane, the radar will ignore the stopped vehicle. Too many false positives otherwise. This is true of most other makes with AEB as far as I know.
 

MelindaV

☰ > 3
Moderator
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
9,562
Location
Vancouver, WA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#19
I'm still very curious to know why the AEB apparently didn't function in this case of rear-ending of a stopped vehicle:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9af1e3f780c0

I would have thought that there would have been some deceleration, even if not enough to completely avoid the collision. It seems like AEB didn't function at all in this case... :(
how do you know it didn't function? do you know the car was within the speeds AEB can function in?
Also, Tesla states there are specific cases it can not recognize obstacles, such as when the vehicle it is following suddenly changes lanes and there is something immediately blocking the lane.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
11,082
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#20
I'm still very curious to know why the AEB apparently didn't function in this case of rear-ending of a stopped vehicle:
As I posted right before that:
I think many AEB systems only work reliably if the car you're about to hit is also moving.
In particular, radar has a hard time determining the size of things. Elon described how radar sees a coke-can as being huge. And you don't want your car slamming on the brakes for every coke can it sees on the road. So a simple way to avoid those false-positives is to consider only things that are moving WRT the background.

Here's a coke can reference:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading-autopilot-seeing-world-radar

A discarded soda can on the road, with its concave bottom facing towards you can appear to be a large and dangerous obstacle, but you would definitely not want to slam on the brakes to avoid it.