German incentives

Juergen

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#1
Yesterday I find out, that's German Government have the rebate program called "Umweltprämie" available up to 31.06.2019.
I have still a hope that Tesla can deliver soon enough. That's 4000€ i could save!
 

Dash

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#2
Yeah but its like "06/2019 or until the budget runs out." Its limited to 1,2 billion EUR, so if 300,000 to 400,000 buy a EV before you get to your Tesla, luck runs out. But the chances are good.

That said, I hope you have an early reservation :)
 

Konstantinos Kostis

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#3
Yesterday I find out, that's German Government have the rebate program called "Umweltprämie" available up to 31.06.2019.
I have still a hope that Tesla can deliver soon enough. That's 4000€ i could save!
It's actually called "Elektromobilität (Umweltbonus)". "Umweltprämie" is what you get when you return your old Diesel car and buy a new Diesel car. Very different story.

The "Umweltbonus" has become law on 2016-11-17 (see also http://www.bundesfinanzministerium....11-16-G-stl-Foerderung-Elektromobilitaet.html), so it's now almost a year old.

Here is some more information on that: http://www.bafa.de/DE/Energie/Energieeffizienz/Elektromobilitaet/elektromobilitaet_node.html
 

avoigt

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#4
Who knows maybe we see even an increase as the new coalition is still in the works and the Green Party wanted to upgrade it to €6k. Negotiation may happen as we speak.

Give the reduced attraction of other EVs and the limited charging options unless for Tesla owners I do have my doubts that we see see budget running out.

My 2 cents, when it runs out they will initiate a new one...
 

Marcumar

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#5
I'm a little bit worried about the production delay in terms of incentives, but more worried that soon I won't be allowed to drive my diesel car in my hometown any more. After recent court orders they're talking about low-emission zones in certain cities as soon as 2018.

So angry at Audi/VAG. I bought an ultraefficient Audi A3 in 2014, that can drive more than 1000km with one tank of petrol. Lost a lot of its resale value after the emission scandal.
 

avoigt

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#6
I'm a little bit worried about the production delay in terms of incentives, but more worried that soon I won't be allowed to drive my diesel car in my hometown any more. After recent court orders they're talking about low-emission zones in certain cities as soon as 2018.

So angry at Audi/VAG. I bought an ultraefficient Audi A3 in 2014, that can drive more than 1000km with one tank of petrol. Lost a lot of its resale value after the emission scandal.
I must say, the information was available even back in 2014.

I told all my friends and family but people tend to believe what the automaker tell them even if its obvious false information. This is combined with a strange trust in big names and a kind of loyalty people feel to brands in particular into the compulsion car industry in Germany. I know people how buy this days a new Diesel ... and they believe in all the promises... I don't think anything has changes for they auto industry and they just continue to cheat.

Moreover most people don't do a full TCO calculation which makes them feel there ICE car is cheaper than an EV is. Its not and with every day passing the value competitiveness of a Tesla is increasing. Can talk for the other EV makers as I did not make the math.
 

Marcumar

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#7
I must say, the information was available even back in 2014.
I knew that the consumption promised by the carmakers wasn't achievable, but the defeat devices weren't common knowledge before september 2015.

Yeah, the general public isn't that well-informed most of the time. I think there is an opportunity for early adopters to educate people about electric cars. For example, the most common myth I hear from friends and colleagues is that BEVs aren't environmental friendly due to the german energy mix and the energy-intensive production.

Recent study:
https://www.transportenvironment.or...iesels-even-when-powered-dirtiest-electricity

By the way, Audi did a video about my car. I'm still amazed, that they released it, when you see the test drivers sweating and the fogged up windows in Italy :D

 

Juergen

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#9
On this day it should only be about the sale of Model S and X. I had a call from a sales representative the Wednesday before. On consultation with the Model 3, he said that they are expected in Germany at the end of 2018. So nothing new!

Jürgen
 

Michel Zehnder

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#10
Got a call from Tesla this morning. The usual questions and info. 18" winter tires (Pirelli) would cost €1950. Otherwise nothing new. I am #152 in DE.
They also suggest to have me register my car myself. Would be the first time I did that with a new car. All other new cars were registered by the car dealers.
Well, if it saves time I'll just do it. Worked fine with my last two used cars.

PS: https://fms.bafa.de/BafaFrame/umweltbonus - still not listed, what's taking so long?
Wasn't the "Umweltbonus" listed on the Invoice? (So 2000€ from Manufacturer), this means you'll get it from the government, too, and don't have to worry (IMHO)
 

Konstantinos Kostis

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#11
Wasn't the "Umweltbonus" listed on the Invoice? (So 2000€ from Manufacturer), this means you'll get it from the government, too, and don't have to worry (IMHO)
The "Umweltbonus" is split between the manufacturer and the BAMF. Only if a car is listed on the BAMF website when you apply for it will you get the other half (€2000) in Germany. It also means that Tesla is not obliged to give their half off if the "Umweltbonus" unless it's listed but I think Tesla will honor their half in any case.
What keeps me moderately calm still is the fact that there still time until end of February but it should have been done a while ago. Don't understand what the problem ist.
One may think that €2000 is not much vs. the total price of a Model 3 with AWD but that much money could pay for a set of Tesla 18" winter tires.
 

Buju

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#12
The "Umweltbonus" is split between the manufacturer and the BAMF. Only if a car is listed on the BAMF website when you apply for it will you get the other half (€2000) in Germany. It also means that Tesla is not obliged to give their half off if the "Umweltbonus" unless it's listed but I think Tesla will honor their half in any case.
What keeps me moderately calm still is the fact that there still time until end of February but it should have been done a while ago. Don't understand what the problem ist.
One may think that €2000 is not much vs. the total price of a Model 3 with AWD but that much money could pay for a set of Tesla 18" winter tires.
Yeah, just be glad that Tesla is so forthcoming and willing to already give you guys the "Umweltbonus" on the invoice even though it's not on the BAMF list yet. We private persons here in Austria are getting nothing right now. No incentive on the price of the Model 3. We have to pay the full price. And because of our 1% higher VAT, the full price of vehicle and extras is even few hundred euros higher than in Germany ;)

21308 new VINs have been registered right now, and 73% are international!

With these new VINs, now we are at ~ 25000 international VINs, so it is likely that all European orders ( ~ 15000) and a good part of China orders are now covered.
So stocked that it is really happening soon!!! :D
 

Michel Zehnder

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#13
The "Umweltbonus" is split between the manufacturer and the BAMF. Only if a car is listed on the BAMF website when you apply for it will you get the other half (€2000) in Germany. It also means that Tesla is not obliged to give their half off if the "Umweltbonus" unless it's listed but I think Tesla will honor their half in any case.
What keeps me moderately calm still is the fact that there still time until end of February but it should have been done a while ago. Don't understand what the problem ist.
One may think that €2000 is not much vs. the total price of a Model 3 with AWD but that much money could pay for a set of Tesla 18" winter tires.
My point is that Tesla explicitly lists it, so they expect you'll get the part of the Government, too.
And maybe the application to the BAMF is not complete yet because they need type approval first? That would make sense IMHO.
 

Model3GER

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#14
What does everyone make of the European homologation issue? Has not been resolved for a while now...
That gives me headaches. I haven't ordered yet, because this is also holding up the BAFA enlisting! My finger is hovering every other day over "BUY" button but then 2.000€ as a potential loss due to a weird gov agency is not worth the risk imho. I really fear Tesla will solve the homologation right before the freighter comes on shore. Unfortunately it's typical/ common.
 

Konstantinos Kostis

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#15
That gives me headaches. I haven't ordered yet, because this is also holding up the BAFA enlisting! My finger is hovering every other day over "BUY" button but then 2.000€ as a potential loss due to a weird gov agency is not worth the risk imho. I really fear Tesla will solve the homologation right before the freighter comes on shore. Unfortunately it's typical/ common.
So far all we did is order a car, we did not yet finally buy our cars (we can return the car after up to three days psat delivery since we didn't have a test drive before getting the car). As long as the car homologation and BAMF registration is done before we own the cars we should be fine. I would also prefer Tesla not cutting this one so close but it's not worth real worries. Shouldn't we be used to Tesla doing things at the very last moment by now? :cool:

I was wondering why Tesla didn't assign VINs to buyers, yet. Perhaps Tesla will see what arrives in Belgium and in what condition. I suppose they will assign VINs after inspection of the cars there.
 
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#16
So far all we did is order a car, we did not yet finally buy our cars (we can return the car after up to three days psat delivery since we didn't have a test drive before getting the car). As long as the car homologation and BAMF registration is done before we own the cars we should be fine. I would also prefer Tesla not cutting this one so close but it's not worth real worries. Shouldn't we be used to Tesla doing things at the very last moment by now? :cool:

I was wondering why Tesla didn't assign VINs to buyers, yet. Perhaps Tesla will see what arrives in Belgium and in what condition. I suppose they will assign VINs after inspection of the cars there.
I think someone somewhere quoted a section from the German Tesla AGB which even says 14 days (corresponding to Fernabsatzgesetz/online trade law).

Yeah, I agree we should be used to this.. but it is different if it concerns you directly and you are not reading about other people's pains on the other side of the globe. Also got some TSLA shares and if EU launch goes wrong/is delayed (unlikely, but not impossible)...
 

Model3GER

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#17
So far all we did is order a car, we did not yet finally buy our cars (we can return the car after up to three days psat delivery since we didn't have a test drive before getting the car). As long as the car homologation and BAMF registration is done before we own the cars we should be fine. I would also prefer Tesla not cutting this one so close but it's not worth real worries. Shouldn't we be used to Tesla doing things at the very last moment by now? :cool:
Well Kostis, if you are so sure, we will setup a contract where you guarantee me the 2.000€ in case BAFA declines. Deal?

I think someone somewhere quoted a section from the German Tesla AGB which even says 14 days (corresponding to Fernabsatzgesetz/online trade law).

Yeah, I agree we should be used to this.. but it is different if it concerns you directly
Exactly. It is far from certain, that BAFA will concur. It's likely but I'm reluctant to bet 2k of my hard earn money on it. At the end, it's a german gov agency and whoever has dealt with any of them in the past will agree, they are anal and you won't stand a chance against them.
 

Michel Zehnder

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#18
Why is far from certain that BAFA will concur? If the Model 3 fulfills the government requirements for the addition to the list, then can't just not include it. It was different for the Model S, because Tesla did "cheat" it's way into the list there. For the Model 3 it seems clear that the base price that you can buy and get delivery of is 56380€ (including VAT!), that's below the 60k€ requirement. And it's definitely a battery-electric car, and Tesla definitely plans to put it on the List (because they already give you the 2k€ that the manufacturer is supposed to pay).
I also can't find any provision in there that the car needs to be on the list when it is purchased. It only needs to be on the list when you hand in the application for the Umweltbonus, and the 2k€ for the manufacturer need to be visibly deducted on the order.

IMHO this is as airtight as it gets.
 

Konstantinos Kostis

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#19
Well Kostis, if you are so sure, we will setup a contract where you guarantee me the 2.000€ in case BAFA declines. Deal?
Kostis is my last name. No deal. You just go on living in fear and pessimism. Life is risky and you'll have to take that risk or not on your own.
Edit: how would that have been a deal if nothing was in for me?
 
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