Front plates in Ontario

TrevP

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#2
Can you also ask him the status of the removal of the front licence plate?
Was that something on the books that I'm not aware of or just asking about the legality? Front plates are required in Ontario (stupid law if you ask me)
 

Rick59

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#3
Was that something on the books that I'm not aware of or just asking about the legality? Front plates are required in Ontario (stupid law if you ask me)
There was a petition going around a few months ago. It was mentioned on this forum I believe. Quite a few signatures I hear.
 

Kennethbokor

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#7
Do you have a link to that petition. We should recirculate it to get the maximum number of signatures. I would love to not have that on the front of my Model 3.
Hi nope sorry I don't, you should be able to google it. However, I would not hold any hope in that happening. Ontario does not want to change this law and there really is not a need for it (other than for cosmetic reasons).
 

Rick59

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#8
Hi nope sorry I don't, you should be able to google it. However, I would not hold any hope in that happening. Ontario does not want to change this law and there really is not a need for it (other than for cosmetic reasons).
Here is the link: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ont_front_plate
There is an advantage to the government in having to produce only one plate and still charging the same amount.
 

minogully

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#10
Here is the link: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ont_front_plate
There is an advantage to the government in having to produce only one plate and still charging the same amount.
I tried to spread this around the office, but there was some pushback on the validity of some of the arguments presented in this petition. Specifically, whether removing the front plate would actually make a noticeable difference on fuel efficiency.

So, @TrevP , since you seem to have some connections with Tesla, would you mind asking them if they've done any simulations on the Model 3's aerodynamics with a front plate? And if so, how does it compare to without the front plate?
 

Kennethbokor

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#11
Here is the link: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ont_front_plate
There is an advantage to the government in having to produce only one plate and still charging the same amount.
Hi thanks for the link. However, it's not really a government production concern I think, but more of a law-enforcement need. I'm quite fine with having a front plate, however if Ontario Government wants to remove it then that's fine with me too.
 

Rick59

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#12
Hi thanks for the link. However, it's not really a government production concern I think, but more of a law-enforcement need. I'm quite fine with having a front plate, however if Ontario Government wants to remove it then that's fine with me too.
Here in Ottawa, half the cars are from Quebec and they don't have front plates. Can't be good for law enforcement if it's important.
 

Steve C

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#13
However, it's not really a government production concern I think, but more of a law-enforcement need.
It is unfortunate for us here in Ontario.

If my M3 doesn't have the bracket already attached, it won't be going on. I Can't see myself drilling holes.

Plate in the front window is reasonable for all but the most anal of cops.

***Also depends on how anal the driver is who has the front plate in the window***
 

Rick59

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#14
It is unfortunate for us here in Ontario.

If my M3 doesn't have the bracket already attached, it won't be going on. I Can't see myself drilling holes.

Plate in the front window is reasonable for all but the most anal of cops.

***Also depends on how anal the driver is who has the front plate in the window***
As for the S & X, EVannex will likely sell a plate holder that bolts under the car, avoiding drilling holes or glueing holders on the front. Check out their web site.
 

TrevP

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#15
It is unfortunate for us here in Ontario.

If my M3 doesn't have the bracket already attached, it won't be going on. I Can't see myself drilling holes.

Plate in the front window is reasonable for all but the most anal of cops.

***Also depends on how anal the driver is who has the front plate in the window***
Interesting, coming from you Steve ;)
 

minogully

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#16
Here in Ottawa, half the cars are from Quebec and they don't have front plates. Can't be good for law enforcement if it's important.
This is exactly what I think proves that it must not be not that important. As the petition says, there are 6 provinces and all 3 territories that don't require it. If it's such a requirement, you'd think there wouldn't be only 4 provinces that require both. And if we were all in a transition of moving from single licence plates to two, you wouldn't expect Saskatchewan to have just removed the second licence plate requirement.

I don't doubt that there are a few odd scenarios where having a licence plate on the front is helpful, but clearly there's not enough bang for the buck to warrant the law.
 
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#17
Hi nope sorry I don't, you should be able to google it. However, I would not hold any hope in that happening. Ontario does not want to change this law and there really is not a need for it (other than for cosmetic reasons).
I have to disagree with you on this one Kenneth, the front plate will cause aerodynamic disruption, which will increase the drag coefficient. So not having a front plate will increase efficiency and increase range. The front plate serves no purpose from a law enforcement perspective as the rear plate is used in photo radar (Ontario doesn't use photo radar, but other provinces do) and the 407 ETR takes a photo of the rear plate, not the front. The Province could save some revenue by not producing the front plate and still charge the same amount for the purchase price of the plate.
 
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Kennethbokor

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#18
I have to disagree with you on this one Kenneth, the front plate will cause aerodynamic disruption, which will increase the drag coefficient. So not having a front plate will increase efficiency and increase range. The front plate serves no purpose from a law enforcement perspective as the rear plate is used in photo radar (Ontario doesn't use photo radar, but other provinces do) and the 407 ETR takes a photo of the rear plate, not the front. The Province could save some revenue by not producing the front plate and still charge the same amout for the purchase price of the plate.
Hi Paul, all good points. The aero information does not pertain to law enforcement but yes that is true.

I don't remember when the front plate was first introduced in Ontario and for what reason, other than potentially a provincial money-grab. If as you state Paul the front plate is not of particular use to law enforcement or other, then sure we should loose it. However, I've not heard from law enforcement on the necessity for the front plate if there is one. I can see circumstances nowadays when surveillance and/or street cameras are used to identify a suspected vehicle and the only good picture may be a frontal angle shot. I don't know how frequent or infrequent this is or other such use cases for a front plate.

All, I'd be happy to loose the front plate please understand this. I'm only stating that if there are non-financial reasons for keeping it on and these reasons have proven success, then I'm fine with the front plate remaining. Hence I won' just blindly sign a petition without knowing both sides and all the facts. That's were I'm coming from thanks.
 

minogully

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#19
Hence I won' just blindly sign a petition without knowing both sides and all the facts. That's were I'm coming from thanks.
I can agree with this stance. That's why I'd like to see some real data on how much of an effect the licence plate actually has on the Model 3. After searching on the net for how much of an effect the plate has on aerodynamics, I couldn't find any scientific results, only anecdotal.
 
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#20
I'm leaning towards putting no licence plate on the front end. Does anyone know if these tickets will impact my insurance at all...maybe not 1 ticket, but if they add up?