Current Firmware Build v9.0 2019.24.4 73fb1ab (7/19/2019)

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Did you install 2019.24.4?


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DocScott

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@MelindaV On the Tesla.com Model 3 Forum someone just posted a video of their car stopping by itself on AP at a red light and displaying a small traffic light on the monitor where the speed limit sign usually is!

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ap-stopping-red-light
I'm curious if this feature will now be in place for those with AP or EAP but not FSD. I'd guess it will be.

And that goes back to something I keep saying--features announced for FSD keep leaking down in to EAP and AP.

The conundrum, as I see it, is that even AP can be activated in a very wide variety of situations, including surface streets. Since that's the case, not having it, e.g., react to stoplights will eventually be seen as a safety issue. Therefore, even if you don't have FSD, once FSD properly reacts to stop lights AP will have to as well. They could try to make it so it reacts more unpleasantly to stop lights somehow (a kind of emergency braking), but that would cause its own safety risks, so instead they'll end up just making it stop on its own, whether you have AP or FSD. The only difference, I predict, is that on AP that will likely result in a disengagement.
 
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MelindaV

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Therefore, even if you don't have FSD, once FSD properly reacts to stop lights AP will have to as well.
or they disable AP from being used on surface streets

but in theory, what we have currently for AP (or those with EAP) will be what it is for those without the FSD option. So why would Tesla have to open up more options to that set of users for local roads? if that is the case, what would be the point in PAYING for FSD?
 

lance.bailey

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had my Model 3 attempt a left turn for me today while navigating home (EAP, FSD not running NOA at that moment only AP). I was behind a stopped car at a red light and I could tell it was going to try the turn on it's own as the blue lines were clearly curving to follow the upcoming left turn.

it failed at the left turn, but probably no worse than my first left turn attempt 40 years ago.
 

MelindaV

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noticed something slightly different last night driving home when I got to my exit.
With TACC engaged, going from the 55MPH freeway to the long exit offramp, AP/TACC has always incrementally stepped down the speed in 5mph increments on the offramp down to 25MPH. But last night as I came to the bottom of the offramp and to the red light (nobody ahead of me), with the set speed showing as 25MPH, it came to a stop at the light! while in the past, it would slow but if nobody was ahead of me at the light, it would not actually stop.
Now, as a disclaimer, the light is at the end of the offramp with a curve to the left, with a large planter to the right, and there was a car stopped in the left lane - so it is possible it was picking up either the mass of the planter or the car to the left when it decided to stop. but I've come up to this light in the past with the same car to the left but not ahead in my lane and it would have continued thru the intersection.
exact same conditions tonight, and TACC didn't slow (below 25mph) or stop for the red light.
 

DocScott

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or they disable AP from being used on surface streets

but in theory, what we have currently for AP (or those with EAP) will be what it is for those without the FSD option. So why would Tesla have to open up more options to that set of users for local roads? if that is the case, what would be the point in PAYING for FSD?
It's similar to the difference between FSD (which is for now just EAP) and AP now. FSD/EAP includes NOA, which means it will initiate lane changes and take interchanges.

So this is what I predict will happen:

Eventually AP will be officially extended to surface streets. At that point, FSD will initiate turns, either when using NOA or by using the turn signal from an appropriate lane, but AP will not do either (i.e. turns will need to be done manually). But AP will be fully functional while driving down the street. I'm not sure what will end up happening with red lights on AP. One possibility is that AP would stop at the red light, but then the driver would have to tap the accelerator when the light turned green again to reengage TACC.

Another thing FSD will eventually do and regular AP will never do is drive without anyone in the car. Enhanced Summon is the first example of that.

Basically, I expect AP to be about safety, and FSD to be about convenience.

If I'm wrong about that, then these are the alternatives:

1. Tesla could, as you suggest, disable AP on surface streets. They'd have every right to do so, as that's always been an "off-label" use of AP. But that would make people mad, and if Tesla felt that autonomy had developed sufficiently so that AP on surface streets was safer than a human driving, it would be iffy to take away something that had just become a safety feature.

2. Tesla could kind of freeze AP behavior in its current state, and not have it take advantage of the improvements that those with FSD will see. That seems to be what a lot of people on this forum are assuming will happen, but it's very weird. Do we really think that if, for example, FSD gets better at recognizing what pedestrians are likely to do that AP won't see the same benefit? Since the FSD firmware will be there whether or not it is unlocked, that gets very dicey very fast. If the car "knew" it was risking hitting someone but didn't do anything about it because the driver hadn't paid for FSD...yikes!

Are there other alternatives I'm missing?
 

SalisburySam

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Another day, more disappointment with TACC on 24.4. Short Interstate trip about 30 miles each way. 5 phantom braking events outbound, 3 more inbound. Bug reports each time. This the second trip in as many days and phantom braking is the worst it has ever been for me. Sadly, TACC is necessary to use any of the other auto-goodies so everything has to be cancelled to cancel the TA portion of TACC. I don’t know what the solution is other than avoidance and that’s not why I bought EAP/FSD with the vehicle. I hope this dramatically improves with the next firmware, at least to the point in 20.4 which wasn’t nearly as bad as 24.4.
 

FrancoisP

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@MelindaV On the Tesla.com Model 3 Forum someone just posted a video of their car stopping by itself on AP at a red light and displaying a small traffic light on the monitor where the speed limit sign usually is!

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ap-stopping-red-light
Tesla keeps hammering to keep our hands on the wheel and be prepared to take over at any time. I agree with that and my own experience vouch for this. Elon Musk has mentioned that in its initial release FSD will require a driver's full attention. That said I am wondering how this will work for red lights. Consider this: the car is 500 feet from an intersection going at 35 mph and the traffic light light turns red. At that point, my question/concern is going to be: has the car detected the red light and how do I know it did? At what point should I take over and hit the brake pedal because we're getting closer to the intersection and I'm thinking that maybe the car won't stop. To be honest, as a precautionary measure, I would end up hitting the brake too early thus disengaging AP/FSD. For my peace of mind, at least initially, I may need a visual/audible cue indicating that the car has detected the red light ahead of time so I can be confident the car will handle it.

Here is the youtube video link:
 
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reallove

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OK - so I'm not crazy. Just noticed this exact behavior: AP engaged (but not NoA), or just TACC even. Putting the turn signal makes the car slow down by 10 Mph, even in a completely empty traffic. This is some really bad regression.

I have to say, I have had the oppossite experience to what many have reported here.

Either manual or NOA based lane changes are SO bad, they are really not usuable. Even in relatively light traffic.

I'll be on 280 (our northern california autobahn) travelling bout 75, and pass a car, get about 4-6 lengths ahead of said car and hit the RIGHT blinker. Half the time the car tries to DECELERATE about 10 MPH, before doing nothing and then ACCELERATE again and do the lane change. Time to completion. 20-30 seconds.

Or, the car just sits there, blinking, 1, 2, 3, 8 times, and then SLOWLY starts the lane change.

It would appear it's WORSE on curves, SLIGHT curves mind you - this use to be MUCH better. Now, its pretty much all the time. It's just SO timid and cautious. And in this case for really NO reason. god HELP us if it was LA or Chicago or something where there was a lot more traffic, it would NEVER change lanes.

We're SO far away from FSD, it's silly.
 

LucyferSam

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I've had no autopilot issues on this update, though I've only used it for about 80 miles. I continue to envy the people for whom autopilot stays in fast lanes until close to the exit as for me NOA has and continues to try to get into the exit lane at least 2 miles before my exit despite there being several entrances still in between with people merging slowly and just generally slow traffic - I would normally not get over into that lane until the last 1/2-3/4 mile after the last entrance before my exit.

This update did break one of the most important functions in the entertainment system for me - it no longer resumes USB music playback reliably when I get back in the car. It seems like if the car goes to sleep it breaks playback resume.
 

NR4P

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Something positive about 2019.24.x

The Sentry home location sleeping bug is fixed.

Before 2019.24.x even though the Home Location may have been excluded, Sentry being on by default kept the vehicle from sleeping.
Over a month ago a Tesla tech disclosed to me that the bug would be fixed in 2019.24.
For past 3 weeks I have done some testing with Sentry. I can confirm that if Sentry is left on permanently and Home is excluded, after about 30-45 mins since the car is parked, it will go to sleep. That accessory port will power down.

At first I didn't think it was fixed but I have noted that the car stays awake for the A/C to run about 20 mins after parking and then once the fan quits, a short time later the car does sleep. I put a light in the accessory socket and checked it and can confirm the bug was corrected.

Overnight drain is back to well under 1%. The 2-4% overnight drain is gone, due to Sentry left in on state, even with home excluded.

I don't have 2019.28.x yet so hopefully it stays fixed.
 

garsh

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During my last roadtrip, I noticed Autopilot having an issue when passing certain offramps on I86 in western New York.

Right at the offramp, the car will hit regen and pull to the right. It lasts for just a fraction of a second - maybe 1/10 of a second - but it's startling. It goes right back to following the lane correctly afterwards.

I'm not entirely sure why this only happened when passing some offramps but not others. The ones where it happened did not have a lot of "lane" before they veer away. I believe they all looked similar to this:

1564954000312.png
 

GDN

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During my last roadtrip, I noticed Autopilot having an issue when passing certain offramps on I86 in western New York.

Right at the offramp, the car will hit regen and pull to the right. It lasts for just a fraction of a second - maybe 1/10 of a second - but it's startling. It goes right back to following the lane correctly afterwards.

I'm not entirely sure why this only happened when passing some offramps but not others. The ones where it happened did not have a lot of "lane" before they veer away. I believe they all looked similar to this:

View attachment 28110
Is there a chance some of them didn't have the dashed line on the right? You remember any one of them in particular? The dashed line issue was bad early on, but they seemed to have conquered this at least in TX, . It still has a problem with an onramp though, it wants to move to the right and split the distance until the lane closes back up from the entrance.
 

undergrove

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Another day, more disappointment with TACC on 24.4. Short Interstate trip about 30 miles each way. 5 phantom braking events outbound, 3 more inbound. Bug reports each time. This the second trip in as many days and phantom braking is the worst it has ever been for me. Sadly, TACC is necessary to use any of the other auto-goodies so everything has to be cancelled to cancel the TA portion of TACC. I don’t know what the solution is other than avoidance and that’s not why I bought EAP/FSD with the vehicle. I hope this dramatically improves with the next firmware, at least to the point in 20.4 which wasn’t nearly as bad as 24.4.
For those having trouble with phantom braking, I am going to repeat my suggestion to try setting the Speed Limit Offset to -20. This changes the behavior on initializing TACC or AP--it sets and maintains the speed at the time of initialization. It does not change speed when the speed limit indicator changes.

The disadvantage is that you must change the cruise speed manually with the scroll wheel.

The advantage is that we have virtually no phantom braking episodes. (I can't say no episodes, because there is one approximately 200 ft place on the I-5 in Santa Clarita where there has been a massive reconstruction for over a year. The speed indicator drops briefly to 45 from 65 and the car does slow down. Everywhere else speed limit changes have no effect).

We long ago adopted this setting, because we live in farm country, and a lot of our travel is on winding 2 lane country roads. We find that Autosteer works very well on them, but the default speed limit most places is 55. Because of occasional houses with children & pets, farm equipment, and critters (rabbits, squirrels, skunks, turkey vultures, coyotes, etc.), it is usually not safe to travel that fast, especially at night. Having to whip the scroll wheel down every time we set AP was not acceptable.

So we live with the inconvenience of having to change the cruise speed manually, but we seem to have avoided phantom braking almost entirely,

Again, if you are troubled with phantom braking, try the -20 setting. You might like it.

For us, everything else about AP and NOA has improved steadily and dramatically since we got our Model 3 last September.
 
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Mike

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High speed run from Bowling Green KY back to Southfield MI today.

Used NOA and/or autopilot about 3% of the time and TACC about 10% of the time.

Several phantom braking issues.

Wish I had dumb cruise control.
 

FrancoisP

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For those having trouble with phantom braking, I am going to repeat my suggestion to try setting the Speed Limit Offset to -20. This changes the behavior on initializing TACC or AP--it sets and maintains the speed at the time of initialization. It does not change speed when the speed limit indicator changes.

The disadvantage is that you must change the cruise speed manually with the scroll wheel.

The advantage is that we have virtually no phantom braking episodes.
This is how I've set mine and I regularly experience phantom brakings. I should mention that it mainly happens driving around town, not on major highways.
 

undergrove

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This is how I've set mine and I regularly experience phantom brakings. I should mention that it mainly happens driving around town, not on major highways.
I should clarify that by "phantom braking" I mean that there is no explanation due to interaction with nearby cars. I use TACC frequently on L.A. surface streets, often in heavy traffic, and do not experience anything I would call phantom braking. Generally, reaction to nearby cars has gotten much smoother, although occasionally there is a somewhat sudden reaction in unusual circumstances. Generally this seems to bee due to an overabundance of caution--which I think is a net plus. I keep my foot near the accelerator and brake in this kind of driving.

I generally feel much safer with TACC or AP in appropriate circumstances--my eyes plus the Teslas eyes and sensors seems far superior than just me alone.

Careful, alert attention is always necessary. This is 3x true of the dumb cruise control on our Prius, which I do not use on city surface streets and must use even more carefully on highways & freeways.
 

sduck

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This update did break one of the most important functions in the entertainment system for me - it no longer resumes USB music playback reliably when I get back in the car. It seems like if the car goes to sleep it breaks playback resume.
This. They finally got it fixed, and now it's broken again. At least it's still mostly usable, unlike before. I've been sending them bug reports on this every time it happens. And it's not sleep mode that causes it, at least for me - it's more random than that.
 

Mike

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High speed run from Southfield MI to Batawa ON today.

552 kms in 5+28 (block to block).

I tried something different today.....I used autopilot for 85% of the run, with some caveats:
  • I never used NOA,
  • Manual induced lane changes to the right (with resulting momentary phantom braking) were simply overridden with mashing the go fast pedal,
  • I always increased speed when pulling into and using the left lane for passing, and
  • My cruise speed of 119 kph was often infringed upon with slower traffic.....and I just chilled out and let it do its thing. Although slower than my history with this car, 119 kph seemed to be the sweet spot for a somewhat smooth flow with traffic.
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One thing I would like to see when the list of nearest superchargers is called upon is the following additional information:
  • a simple arrow pointing to its direction relative to my position, and
  • the current ETE and distance to each of those same listed superchargers.
When that list is brought up and kept up so one can actively monitor the stall availability of the planned supercharger, the list must continue to update. It currently freezes the information so it remains static.

The above observations took place because the nav system had originally planned for me to stop (at Cambridge ON) with about 20% range remaining and I forced the situation and drove to a point farther east with 5% range upon arrival (at Winston Churchill Blvd).