False Rumor (for now): Model 3 P100D exists! Is it possible?!?!

Brokedoc

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#1
In my maintenance for the other thread regarding newest firmware, I also like to go to http://firmware.teslafi.com/ because it is updated from APIs and doesn’t require the owners to log new version info. Look at what is listed here, a Model 3 P100D! Could this be right? The vehicle under it is simply listed as “3” with no reference to battery size. Is this field reported by the owner or data pulled out of the API? Could it possibly be? That Firmware version is indeed a M3 specific build....

9FE158A9-5AE4-4D90-9B16-F303D579E201.jpeg
 

EVfusion

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#6
From the beginning I've had a hard time believing that they could only fit a 80kwh battery. I'm willing to bet that in the future they will miraculous find extra space to fit a bigger battery.
Not a miracle - just a battery density breakthrough such as we are told is needed for the Semi and the Roadster!!
 

Idur

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Not a miracle - just a battery density breakthrough such as we are told is needed for the Semi and the Roadster!!
100 kWh sounds like it is possible without breakthrough energy density. After all, a 3 isn't that much smaller than an S. Maybe some cargo space is sacrificed for battery space?
 

garsh

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#8
100 kWh sounds like it is possible without breakthrough energy density. After all, a 3 isn't that much smaller than an S. Maybe some cargo space is sacrificed for battery space?
No, 100kWh doesn't fit inside of a Model 3 using current battery chemistry. I ran the calculations here:

garsh's Official Model 3 Battery Pack Capacity Calculation Thread
expect an 85kWh pack - maybe even a 90kWh pack - to be offered as the top option for the Model 3.

And Elon has stated that it won't fit:

I agree with @Fun_for_the_grandkids :
Not a miracle - just a battery density breakthrough such as we are told is needed for the Semi and the Roadster!!
I think Tesla has a new chemistry. It unfortunately was developed too late for use in the Model 3, but will be available in the Semi and Roadster. And... maybe... also in a forthcoming performance version of the Model 3. :)
 

Brokedoc

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#9
No, 100kWh doesn't fit inside of a Model 3 using current battery chemistry. I ran the calculations here:

garsh's Official Model 3 Battery Pack Capacity Calculation Thread
expect an 85kWh pack - maybe even a 90kWh pack - to be offered as the top option for the Model 3.

And Elon has stated that it won't fit:

I agree with @Fun_for_the_grandkids :

I think Tesla has a new chemistry. It unfortunately was developed too late for use in the Model 3, but will be available in the Semi and Roadster. And... maybe... also in a forthcoming performance version of the Model 3. :)
New chemistry! I knew it! Elon has invented Mr Fusion!
FCB5AA30-6AF0-4D6E-9482-AF5A58B34C8B.jpeg
 

roflwaffle

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#11
No, 100kWh doesn't fit inside of a Model 3 using current battery chemistry. I ran the calculations here:

garsh's Official Model 3 Battery Pack Capacity Calculation Thread
expect an 85kWh pack - maybe even a 90kWh pack - to be offered as the top option for the Model 3.

And Elon has stated that it won't fit:

I agree with @Fun_for_the_grandkids :

I think Tesla has a new chemistry. It unfortunately was developed too late for use in the Model 3, but will be available in the Semi and Roadster. And... maybe... also in a forthcoming performance version of the Model 3. :)
It won't fit with the current pack, but there might be enough room for another square 23S section that's behind the front subframe/between the front wheels, like the model S has. That would put the pack at 99kWh.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...16_Models_S_Emergency_Responders_Guide_en.pdf
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2017_Model_3_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf
 

garsh

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#12
It won't fit with the current pack, but there might be enough room for another square 23S section that's behind the front subframe/between the front wheels, like the model S has. That would put the pack at 99kWh.
That's where the front motor will be. It's not really designed to extend the pack into that space.
 

roflwaffle

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#13
That's where the front motor will be. It's not really designed to extend the pack into that space.
If they design the AWD 3 in a similar manner to the AWD S, the drive unit (DU) will be above the steering rack. They could put the front DU in front of the battery pack, but that's a steep angle for CV axles.

My guess is that they're going to open some new lines for the AWD 3s with a different front end and possibly a different battery pack.
 

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JBsC6

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#14
Based off of what we are seeing with pricing on the model S and model x 100d 's I don't believe consumers are willing to pay for the 100 kw battery packs.

There are 17 to 30 grand discounts effectively bringing new 100d 's closer in price to the 75d.

That's the sweet spot for teslas pricing and mileage as well as performance.

I don't believe the model 3 will reach up that high in battery size.

It's overkill for the vehicle usuage.

For the most part the model S and x in the 75d range is all most consumers need or want to pay for at this point in time.

When and if battery costs drop effectively that may change.

As it is...the model 3 with the 220 mile range probably quadruples most people's everyday range.

I believe it's been said 78 percent of americans travel less than 50 miles a day round trip.

Two hundred and twenty miles range covers just about every Americans everyday needs not taking into account the rare road trip

The base model 3 starts at 35 grand....and when it starts to approach 60 grand I personally begin to lose interest..

A 100kw battery could bring the cost closer to six figures..

I'd rather have the insane mode motor in the base 220 mile product for an extra 10 grand ...this way if I want to hammer the accelerator all I do is lose range...I'm ok with that...adding a 100 kw battery for increased range and a little better acceleration for 30 grand or whatever it costs is of little value to me..

220 mile range under nor,al use is more than enough...and if that dropped to 110 mile range hot dogging it would be totally rational and acceptable...

I'm sure after the model 3 warranty expires aftermarket tuners will offer such options...

You should be worth a few laughs.
 

ahagge

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#15
A bigger battery may be required for a Performance Model 3, due to the required discharge rate in order to feed a high-horsepower motor (or set of motors). It won't be so much about range as discharge rate.
 

MichelT3

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#16
Based off of what we are seeing with pricing on the model S and model x 100d 's I don't believe consumers are willing to pay for the 100 kw battery packs.

There are 17 to 30 grand discounts effectively bringing new 100d 's closer in price to the 75d.

That's the sweet spot for teslas pricing and mileage as well as performance.

I don't believe the model 3 will reach up that high in battery size.

It's overkill for the vehicle usuage.

For the most part the model S and x in the 75d range is all most consumers need or want to pay for at this point in time.

When and if battery costs drop effectively that may change.

As it is...the model 3 with the 220 mile range probably quadruples most people's everyday range.

I believe it's been said 78 percent of americans travel less than 50 miles a day round trip.

Two hundred and twenty miles range covers just about every Americans everyday needs not taking into account the rare road trip

The base model 3 starts at 35 grand....and when it starts to approach 60 grand I personally begin to lose interest..

A 100kw battery could bring the cost closer to six figures..

I'd rather have the insane mode motor in the base 220 mile product for an extra 10 grand ...this way if I want to hammer the accelerator all I do is lose range...I'm ok with that...adding a 100 kw battery for increased range and a little better acceleration for 30 grand or whatever it costs is of little value to me..

220 mile range under nor,al use is more than enough...and if that dropped to 110 mile range hot dogging it would be totally rational and acceptable...

I'm sure after the model 3 warranty expires aftermarket tuners will offer such options...

You should be worth a few laughs.
@JBsC6, you seem to have thought things well out, for yourself. You obviously aren't an average person.
Neither are other drivers / "consumers". We all differ, the spread in our situations is huge.
So please remember, your references don't work for all / others. So they're not truths, but your opinions or desires.
I certainly don't fit inside your picture. Pfew!
 
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#17
I'd wait for a 100 if I knew it was around the corner. For me the longer the range the better. When we travel to my brother's house a few states away we don't want to have to stop every 250 miles for a charge- sometimes we just want to get there. My wife and I are putting in a 350 mile round trip this week and it'd be nice to be able to do it without having to charge. Heck, I look forward to EV's that will go 600 - 800+ miles per change. And no, I cannot currently afford the new Roadster. ☺
 

Brokedoc

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#18
So I finally got a post from a Teslafi subscriber that gave us some extra details. The “Model 3 P100D” is located in Calif and has vin 2xxx. Speculation has it that there may be a Model S/X P130D soon which may also coincide with the release of the Model 3 P100D. Also, subscribers to Teslafi select their model from a drop down list which currently has choices below - no 3 P100D to pick from or any way to manually enter a model number so is the Model 3 P100D REALLY being pulled from the cars API?

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EVfusion

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#19
So I finally got a post from a Teslafi subscriber that gave us some extra details. The “Model 3 P100D” is located in Calif and has vin 2xxx. Speculation has it that there may be a Model S/X P130D soon which may also coincide with the release of the Model 3 P100D. Also, subscribers to Teslafi select their model from a drop down list which currently has choices below - no 3 P100D to pick from or any way to manually enter a model number so is the Model 3 P100D REALLY being pulled from the cars API?

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That is BIG news (edit - if the speculation is true).
Model 3 P100 D + Model s/x P130 D + Semi with unreal specs + Roadster with equally unreal specs = new battery chemistry.
That probably means range of 400 ++ miles soon!!
The big questions are what will be the cost and when?

PS: Now is not the time to short Tesla!
 
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Bokonon

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#20
Okay, now I'm really curious about this possibility, because there are a lot of signs pointing toward an impending battery breakthrough.

Just to clarify, do you still need to select your car's model if you provide TeslaFi with your Tesla account credentials? Or does it just catalogue any cars that happen to be under that Tesla account?

Either way, I guess it's possible that TeslaFi stores and categorizes your data based on the car's reported variant, versus the one you select. (It may just use your selection to determine which API calls are valid for your car.)

My question would be this: suppose this is a 3P100D (possibly the one we saw on the test track with red calipers and *maybe* 20" wheels -- even if that sighting may have predated VIN 2000 being allocated with the NHTSA). Given that it almost certainly an internal test/RC vehicle, what the heck is its driver/caretaker doing signing it up for TeslaFi? (Unless, of course, they use TeslaFi for their personal vehicle, which is also registered under the same account, *and* TeslaFi automatically pulls all of the vehicles under your account.)

Another possibility might be that, being a non-production car, the car is reporting "3P100D" as a placeholder for the as-yet-to-be-determined production code, essentially swapping out one character from "SP100D". Or, given that there is also an entry for just a plain "S", it's possible that it's an artifact from some unexpected API response or condition.

Still, taken with these (and other) grains of salt, it's a very intriguing development worth watching (and investigating, to the extent that we can)!