EU Model 3 assembly/EU pricing

Gabzqc

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#1
Ok, lots of news about equipment going into Fremont and new paint lines and new stamping press etc... but nothing about Tilburg or a separate factory in Europe...

So are we expecting Tesla to ship the first set of European cars from the US to us in Europe, or basically no EUropean cars will be made until Tilburg (or a new factory) is equipped?

I searched the forums and could not find this subject covered...
 

Michael Russo

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#2
Ok, lots of news about equipment going into Fremont and new paint lines and new stamping press etc... but nothing about Tilburg or a separate factory in Europe...

So are we expecting Tesla to ship the first set of European cars from the US to us in Europe, or basically no EUropean cars will be made until Tilburg (or a new factory) is equipped?

I searched the forums and could not find this subject covered...
Great question! Have been thinking about this myself! Don't know much about Tilburg (think the local T≡SLA Owners Club recently visited it, yet, though a member, as reservation holder ;), I did not go). Maybe I can enquire with one of these cars if they heard anything?
Edited: sent mail to their contact guy! :)

Have a great Finnish day! :cool:
 
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TrevP

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#3
Tillburg plant is for final assembly. Finished car bodies and drive trains are sent there to be assembled. This is to get around the tax import situation. In due time Tesla will announce, most likely later this year, plans for new Gigafactories that combine both battery and car manufacturing in China and Europe.
 

Michael Russo

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#4
Tillburg plant is for final assembly. Finished car bodies and drive trains are sent there to be assembled. This is to get around the tax import situation. In due time Tesla will announce, most likely later this year, plans for new Gigafactories that combine both battery and car manufacturing in China and Europe.
Yes, Trev, longer term, that's clear, EU to be supplied out of Gigafactory III OR IV... Question I think was whether initial Model ≡ deliveries (thru 2019-20?) would exclusively come from Fremont (IMHO, most likely) or if some could see their final assembly performed in Tilburg... Skeptical that plant has the capacity and the president of the Belgian Club did not know more... :)
 

Gabzqc

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#5
Yes, Trev, longer term, that's clear, EU to be supplied out of Gigafactory III OR IV... Question I think was whether initial Model ≡ deliveries (thru 2019-20?) would exclusively come from Fremont (IMHO, most likely) or if some could see their final assembly performed in Tilburg... Skeptical that plant has the capacity and the president of the Belgian Club did not know more... :)
This is exactly what im getting at, if the cars do come straight from Fremont, im pretty sure we will have some kind of import tax lumped ontop of the cost for our model 3's ... really hope not of course!
 

Michael Russo

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#6
This is exactly what im getting at, if the cars do come straight from Fremont, im pretty sure we will have some kind of import tax lumped ontop of the cost for our model 3's ... really hope not of course!
Yep. I knew that was your concern & totally share it... just paid €38 import duty for 2 M3OC t-shirts... :eek::eek: Imagine the real thing!! :D
 

Gabzqc

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#8
I found an article in Dutch about the Tilburg facility. In 2015 it was expanded and according to the article (Feb 2017) it is operating at max capacity right now. Which is around 20.000 cars a year apparently (90 cars a day).
OK thanks, that worries me that all european cars will come from Fremont.... #HelloTaxes...
 
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#9
OK thanks, that worries me that all european cars will come from Fremont.... #HelloTaxes...
Yes, well....it will be no different than with the Model S and X. So the US Dollar prize will be the prize in Euro's and then you add VAT (if you have to pay VAT when buying an EV; in Norway you don't, in The Netherlands we do...21%)

Correction...you suspect all cars will arrive "complete" and not to be reassembled? That would suck...According to some website I found..the import duty on cars is around 10% for the EU:

$35000 -> € 35000 + € 3500 (import duty) -> € 38500 *1.21 (VAT in NL) -> € 46500 -> add. costs to get the car on the road is around € 500 for the S and X. So worst case a base Model 3 could cost up to € 47000 ($ 52915 US) in The Netherlands.
 
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Michael Russo

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#10
Yes, well....it will be no different than with the Model S and X. So the US Dollar prize will be the prize in Euro's and then you add VAT (if you have to pay VAT when buying an EV; in Norway you don't, in The Netherlands we do...21%)

Correction...you suspect all cars will arrive "complete" and not to be reassembled? That would suck...According to some website I found..the import duty on cars is around 10% for the EU:

$35000 -> € 35000 + € 3500 (import duty) -> € 38500 *1.21 (VAT in NL) -> € 46500 -> add. costs to get the car on the road is around € 500 for the S and X. So worst case a base Model 3 could cost up to € 47000 ($ 52915 US) in The Netherlands.
Only point I'd make, Arjen, though I agree it is a conservative assumption, is that taking 1 € = 1 $ clearly is not in our advantage...
Currently the € is at close to $1.12, which would help a lot... Of course, always said forex may be the only killer variable for me and Model ≡... Ok, that was before I read about the 14 ft3.. :p:p
 

Gabzqc

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#11
Correction...you suspect all cars will arrive "complete" and not to be reassembled? That would suck...According to some website I found..the import duty on cars is around 10% for the EU:
IF. Its a big word!

If the M3 can be delivered in parts to Tilburg and final assembly there before deliveries throughout Europe, we will save a lot of extra import taxes. Just like the MS and MX is now.

HOWEVER, all the reports I have read state the Tilburg plant is "at capacity" and that makes me believe the cars will be delivered to Europe finished and ready for delivery, straight from Fremont....

we can only wait and see...:cool:
 
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#12
..... So worst case a base Model 3 could cost up to € 47000 ($ 52915 US) in The Netherlands.
If this comes true (47k euro) for the base model then I am out... with 41k euro for the base model (35k USD) I am okay... with the large batt and the premium package (without AP2) for 57k euro I am also okay...

If the base model will be indeed priced at 47k euro imho Tesla can expect a lot of reservation cancellations in The Netherlands.
 

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#13
If this comes true (47k euro) for the base model then I am out... with 41k euro for the base model (35k USD) I am okay... with the large batt and the premium package (without AP2) for 57k euro I am also okay...

If the base model will be indeed priced at 47k euro imho Tesla can expect a lot of reservation cancellations in The Netherlands.
Not just in the Netherlands,
I suspect that VAT @ 20% (in the UK) and 10% import duty will kill off the majority of European reservations.

As it will not be an affordable car for many.
In the UK we then have an additional £1,550 tax for any new vehicle with a RRP over £40K...
 

Thomas Mikl

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#14
If Tesla does not value in the low dollar and it really will be above 50k for the long range model without extras then it will be too much and I will prolly have to drop out too. This would mean that a long range with premium would be well above 65k (without EAP or FSD) and that would just be too much.
 

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#15
If Tesla does not value in the low dollar and it really will be above 50k for the long range model without extras then it will be too much and I will prolly have to drop out too. This would mean that a long range with premium would be well above 65k (without EAP or FSD) and that would just be too much.
I'm quite sure that the LR Model 3 will be really close to or above the 50k without extras. Don't forget that the US Model 3 is 44k$ without tax and import duty. In the US the Model S starts at 69.500$ while in Austria it starts at 80.000€. But try to get a BMW 3 series at the same speccs like a Model 3. I'm quite sure you will be around 60-70k. That is what I'm calculating in for a Model 3 with RWD / EAP / Premium.

Edit: Sorry just read that you where talking about a base price of 47k €. I'm quite sure this will by priced too high. It's actually even higher than on a model S. I think worst would be around 45k.
 

Thomas Mikl

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#16
If I can hit 65k with EAP and Premium I am OK.
BMW 330i with Premium stuff, large Nav and Distronic+ is 74k that I configured.

I think with current USD value the Model S is overpriced in the EU. If it would stark 5-6k less than that would be OKish but 80k is too much compared to USD prices, even with taxes and import.
 

Pascal Hureau

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#17
Not just in the Netherlands,
I suspect that VAT @ 20% (in the UK) and 10% import duty will kill off the majority of European reservations.

As it will not be an affordable car for many.
In the UK we then have an additional £1,550 tax for any new vehicle with a RRP over £40K...
Not only this additional tax ! With Brexit on the way, you would have to import from the Netherlands if Tilburg is still the final assembly line, not talking about the waiting time for a right hand steering wheel !
 

Michael Russo

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#19
To this & other previous posts... Clearly, we Europeans need to be patient... and remain reasonably optimistic... :)
These premises - though a little dated now (March) are intriguing yet they are just a data point amongst many others. We won't know anything firm before at least mid-2018. The exchange rate evolution by late 2H18 when our first deliveries could occur is a big variable. Yes, Model S is proportionally pricey in EU today at the current $/€ value yet T≡SLA is not known to adjust for forex very regularly.
Key for me is price positioning relative to target ICE cars in the entry luxury segment, the 3-series in particular. Price for the 330i being probably most relevant rather than the significantly lower performing 320i.
Anything above €43-45k for the 220 miles base version without options is bound to be very problematic... anything about €55k for a LRB with any other color than black, 19'' sports wheels & Premium package, too... :rainbow:
 
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#20
... Clearly, we Europeans need to be patient... and remain reasonably optimistic... :)
Agree on the "remain reasonably optimistic" part, nonetheless it would help many reservation holders just to have an price indication of what the base model would cost in their own currency & country. Provinding a price indication for Model 3 based on current exchange rates etc shouldn't be rocket science for Tesla. If we do have to wait till the end of 2018 that is a strategic choice of Tesla imho.

BMW 3-series starts at 39.601 euro, the Mercedes C-class starts at 37.983 euro in the Netherlands.

BTW the M3 pricing in the article comes very close to my own estimates... I figured USD price x 1.16 equals price in euro's for The Netherlands... and this why I am stil reasonably optimistic :). But a confirmation from Tesla Nederland is the sense that the base model would be arround 42.500 euro's and instead of 47.500 euro's would help me... if it is 47.500 I wil buy an ICE car and wait another 10 years before switching to electric.